Observations regarding shoulders and elbows in Western Boxing

[fa_jing]

This occured to me as I was watching Tyson/Douglas for the 1st time on ESPN Classic. I see so many accidental taps or near misses with the shoulders and elbows, that it's obvious that if these weapons were used with training and intent in a real fight, they could very well determine the outcome. Food for thought - I'm sure this can be seen by observing other international full-contact venues, but I was surprised to see this validated by Western Boxing itself.

[ShaolinTiger00]

I see so many accidental taps or near misses with the shoulders and elbows,

Tyson had the Cus "peek a boo" stance, strong in-fighting hooks and uppercuts and excellent lateral movement and head movement.

What you see is just a result of these attribute's put together, not a deliberate "hidden" manner to use elbows that some ancient boxers used..

ex. - Holyfield keeps his head low and often smashes it with other boxers. - Its not deliberate. Heatbutting isn't a hidden technique in boxing.. it's just the way he fights.

[rogue]

Check out some of the really old fights from the 30's and 40's to see some fun things.

[Ikken Hisatsu]

so you're saying you think elbows might be useful in a fight? no kidding.

[CrippledAvenger]

Originally posted by ShaolinTiger00


Tyson had the Cus "peek a boo" stance, strong in-fighting hooks and uppercuts and excellent lateral movement and head movement.

What you see is just a result of these attribute's put together, not a deliberate "hidden" manner to use elbows that some ancient boxers used..

ex. - Holyfield keeps his head low and often smashes it with other boxers. - Its not deliberate. Heatbutting isn't a hidden technique in boxing.. it's just the way he fights.

Headbutting, elbowing fists, hitting with shoulders, et cetera all happen fairly frequently. I wouldn't say they're hidden techniques, but just because something is against the rules doesn't mean a boxer won't know how to use it. And certainly, Holyfield did deliberately headbutt other boxers, just not blatantly.

In fact, some of the greatest boxers of all time specialized in using such "dirty" tactics in the ring-- Duran, Dempsey, and Harry Greb come most readily to my mind in this regard. Dempsey was notorious for lacing, stepping on feet, and holding and hitting. Duran was just vicious in close and not above elbows in tight (it's not his fault if a hook was a little off and connected with an elbow, right?). Greb used to throw entire combinations of fouls, involving everything from shoulder rams, to elbows, to lacing.

When thinking about combat sports, sometimes it's not the rules of the game that matter. It's what you can get away with.

[fa_jing]

Hey - actually given the way this fight went, it was Douglas that was nearly hitting him with the elbows - unintentionally, to be sure. Because Mike would slip the jab, and end up right next to BD's elbows as he came in. I was also surprised that when Mike came in, after throwing 1-2 bombs, his head would end up nearly resting on Buster's lead shoulder in the clinch. It helped that Douglas is much taller. So Buster would give him a little tap with the shoulder, to create some room - I also have found that shouldering out of the clinch can be useful. But if he threw the shoulder with timing and intent, and a reasonably specialized mechanic, and hit Iron Mike on the way in....it would have caused some damage. I could see that, at least.