Back To Basics

[Pork Chop]

Was going to post this in the ORA forum, but I think it'll get more views here.

I was thinking about getting back to basics. It was something I said I'd do back in November, and my plans for training them were pretty much derailed. Now I'm thinking about trying again, probably on my own time.

There are single techniques and bread & butter combos.
If I want to hone tools through high repetition work, is it better to stick with the singles or the bread & butter?

If I'm going to use jab by itself, it makes sense just to train jab; but if I'm only going to use cross in a 1-2 (for example), is it better to only train the 1-2? Should I train just the single cross?

I know eventually I will have to train my bread & butter combos to make them fluid & find the right balance. Will the combo training be sufficient to develop the individual tools in the combo?

Curious to hear everyone's opinions on this.

[Ikken Hisatsu]

I dont like to use "static" combos, I prefer to take advantage of whatever holes I can see.

but, I think you should train both. you might always use a jab before a cross but you dont always use a cross after a jab, if that makes sense. practice doing various combinations without any set plan, just hit wherever is vulnerable, mix it up low and high. get out a K-1 tape with that McDonald guy, he has great combinations.

[Pork Chop]

IH
Thanks for the input! :)
Hoping this thread could start a decent discussion.

Not to argue with you, because I do agree with what you have to say, but just to play devil's advocate, I figure I'll provide a counterpoint.

The lead hook is an example of a technique that is not all that great trained alone. Leading off with a lead hook is a bad idea to do on a regular basis- because of the counters. Training a lead hook from a semi-static guard is also a challenge- not only is it an unusual flow, but the balance transfer and execution won't be regularly used for a lead-off technique.

The question then becomes "how should I train it?".

I think balance transfer is more important that just the technique.
On Pat Millitech's tape he talks about always following a technique with a technique fired from the opposite side: right cross to left round kick, etc. If you don't necessarily follow this, you may want to try both sides.

So before throwing the hook I may want to throw a few with a lead off technique coming from the right side, and then do a certain number with the lead off coming from the left side.

Now if I'm constantly changing up that lead off technique, I'm not getting too much practise on anything but the hook; which is okay.

But say if I spend a lot of time going jab-cross-hook; honestly firing off the jab and the cross with power, speed, and clean technique- should it count towards my "repetitions" of each of those punches?

Not trying to get out of doing work; but say if you wanted to do 1000 repetitions per week of your favorite tools, that number can add up real quick if you break up combos into components that you don't necessarily use by themselves. To then turn around and say that you have to do both these single techniques and their combos as seperate sets of 1000s; the number gets even bigger.

I'd rather have 2 or 3 things that I did 1000+ times a day/week than have to maintain 20 things 1000 times a week. Not being lazy, but it's a large commitment and consistancy is of paramount importance.

Do you think it's possible to train a combo, earnestly executing each technique in a combo, and be able to use & improve those individual techniques?

[yenhoi]

None of these things are the same:

Throwing the cross "by itself" in the air...

against a heavy bag...

against focus mitts...

against a sparring partner...

"in combo" in the air...

on the bag...

on the mitts...

on the sparring partner...

after a jab...

after a hook...

after a kick...

after entry...

as entry...

from the clinch...

off angle...

All of these things are of the utmost importance when it comes to using them as training methods to make the sum of your fighting ability better then it was. In order to "learn" all there is to "learn" about the cross and its many applications and mthods of hitting with force.

I dont think its a good idea to train by "hitting at whatever is open." I think your much better off at learning good body mechanics by using all of those training methods as much and as often as possible. Training in combo, and varity of combo (over time) is of the most value. The "standard" jab-cross-hook, is not a three hit combo (although we all know it can be..) "it" is really all about getting the hook in, the jab anc cross move his guard/head/body/footwork around so that hopefully your hook not only lands with power, but the other guy was moving full speed into your hand too.

The most trained combo(s) 'round here is hook-cross-hook and cross-hook-cross.

:confused:

[SevenStar]

Try this:

have your partner hold the mitts with the palm side to his chest. Have him randomly feed you whatever he wants you to throw, then put the pads back against his chest.

for example, I hold the pads against my chest, then show one, for a jab. you jab, I bring the mitt back to my chest. I flash jab/cross/hook, you throw it, then I bring the pads back. If I leave the mitts out, you keep swingin until I hide them.

This way, you get to work your singles, your bread and butter, and throwing combos fluidly, as you won't know what your feeder is going to throw.

After you get used to this, have him add sound effects. For example, I feed you for a one/two and say "bop, bang". bop signifies a light hit, and bang a hard. So, in this example, light jab, hard cross.

[Pork Chop]

Oops forgot about hook-cross-hook... I was thinking of what a couple of my boxing coaches told me, mostly about leading off with a double hook.

I'll definitely try to work in some of those methods.
Some of it's a matter of having a partner to work with. hehehe
My plans for this right now are mostly stuff to do on my own, but I'll hit Suntzu up and see if he's free.

Thanks for contributing. :)

[No_Know]

Whith the turn around I presume for which you might like or have the patience, Cut this exercise to a month or two or three weeks.

Practice 1000 times one thing (jab/hook(left then right equals one count/uppercut(left then right equals one count) each time range (two weeks jab next two weeks same hand double jab). Once in the morning when you wake and once at night at least before going to bed.

Something you might not have gotten before is to take the jab up to jab with the same hand, done four times.

If I'm playing boxing~ I prefer this to switching arms. I prefer to use just the one arm.

Once you go through a year that's room for twenty four punches/combinations. If you have less than twenty four punches and combinations then you are combine your basic punces/combos, one with one. This should ground you in used to it.

[Pork Chop]

Well last night in boxing we were going through a combo-
lunging hook, cross, retreat with a jab.

So I guess my example was total cr@p.

What I was really trying to figure out was "if I want to do the intense repetition route, would it be just as good to combo up some of the singular techniques?"


I think you're right about doing it as many different ways as possible.
With a partner you get feedback & a moving target.
With a heavy bag you get some feedback on how much power you're getting.
With freestyle shadowboxing, you get used to calling up what you want to do.


This all came about because I was talking with a trainer who said they were throwing X number of a technique in a certain training session and thought because I didn't know how many I was throwing that something might be inadequate. I think that mastering the technique is probably more important than pure # of repetitions. Also, going a certain number of rounds of a particular combo or technique is something I have done pretty regularly, though, and not as foreign as trying to grind out actual reps.