Yao Ling/Yow Ling Kuen Question

[Shen Zhou]

Are there different mantis breathing processes (theories) from one set to the other? I was doing some research and going through some of my old papers when I found a copy of an old Martial Magazine Issue # 59. It is an article on the set Yao Ling/ Yow Lin Kuen. I am not sure who wrote the article but the photos are of Yuen Man Kai performing the set.

There is an introduction written in Chinese that states:

“The practitioner of this set should be very strong”
"The whole set should be preformed with one breath"
“It should be strong and smooth with no stop and go motions”

From what I understand the shorter sets are meant to be the fighting sets whereas the longer one for endurance. All are meant for techniques but are some sets meant for breathing exercises as well for mental, and physical body conditioning?

Shen Zhou

[Joe Mantis]

Shen Zhou,

Is the Yow Ling Kuen a dynamic form? or is it more along the lines of an exercise for conditioning?

I learned a WL set by the same name and wonder if there is any connection?

[Shen Zhou]

Yao Ling/ Low Ling Kuen is a dynamic set. Meaning that it moves rather then staying stationary like the Law Hawn Gung.

Just as Gung Lik Kuen is a dynamic set it also has purpose to build strength in the player of the set. So even though Yao Ling Kuen is a dynamic set does it have a duel purpose that has to do with breath control like the Law Hawn Gung or is it just the manner in which this set is played?

[Young Mantis]

Shen Zhou,

In the WHF lineage of PM, the techniques are usually linked together in subsets. He has written, "to complete in one breath". But we do not interpret that as meaning the entire form. It is neither possible nor correct to be holding your breath from beginning to end of a form. But we do believe that within a subset or string of continuous techniques, the breath is held until the final strike. That I believe, is what is meant by, "to complete in one breath" or "yut hei haw sing" in Cantonese. So the phrase actually is not about breath control as much as it is about linking the techniques.

At the time WHF wrote about the PM style, he was living in HK where southern styles were more common. To my knowledge, and please correct me if I am mistaken, most southern styles exhale with each strike to generate power. We believe this slows down the techniques. So both WHF and Yuen Man Kai, who also wrote many magazine articles like the one you have, wrote about "to complete in one breath" to differentiate the NPM style of playing forms and usage from the more commonly seen southern styles.

Each form definitely has its own flavor and teaches different fighting strategies, emphasizes different techniques, or develops different ranges of fighting. "To complete in one breath" is a general principle throughout our Mantis style and can be applied to all the mantis sets.

YM

[Shen Zhou]

Young Mantis,

First off thank you for your reply it is always insightful and knowledgeable. Linkage in all PM sets is a very important factor that must not be missed. That is a great observation and I will research into it with my own playing of PM sets.

I guess YMK was making the point to the reader that even though “the breath is held until the final strike” do not make it so short or to jerky as with some southern fighting systems (ie Southern Mantis). As you said waiting till the final strike to exhale rather then each hand motion or posture. YKM points out in the article: “it should be strong and smooth with no stop and go.” I completely understand this concept now thanks.

Maybe you could help me out with one more interpretation. Also in the passage it is stated that “This set is very rare due to the moves found in this set. Including hidden movements – Standing meditation and the combination Peck Jot / Peel Bo Choi in one advancing motion.”

Could you give me your interpretation of this section?

Shen Zhou

[Tainan Mantis]

In Wah Lum Yau Lin Chuen is one of the old sets of 12 passed on by Li Kun Shan.
You are the first person to mention having learned it.
I have also wondered if it is connected or related to the 7* form.

Can you describe the movement?
Does it stay in one place or move down a "road"

[Young Mantis]

Shen Zhou,

First off, I hope you don't take offense at anything I say. I know firsthand that translating Chinese into English is a very difficult task. I am also assuming we are looking at the same article since I am not aware YMK published more than one on this form in a magazine. That being said, I think your translation differs from mine. There are subtleties in the translation that produce bigger differences in meaning. I am not saying mine is correct, just giving you my version.

YMK: 練者務必要帶着雄壯氣勢
You translate as: The practitioner of this set should be very strong

Actually, I don't think he is not saying the practitioner needs to be physcially strong. I think that statement is in reference to the way the form should be practiced. Literally he says, "the practitioner must wear (or bring or show) strength and vigor". The last four characters are very hard to translate. I came up with strength and vigor but it does not convey the exact meaning. But I don't think it's about the physical condition of the practitioner but the manner in which the form should be played or what the performer should bring to the form.

YMK: ¹ê¤£¥i¦h±o¤§®±®M ²ßµ¥¤[½m ¦Û¯à»â®©¨ä¤¤¶ø§®
He does say that this form is rare or hard to come by or rather, there are not many forms like this (having these qualities). Through lengthy study and practice, gradual and eventual understanding of the forms secrets or essence will be achieved.

You wrote: "Including hidden movements ?Standing meditation and the combination Peck Jot / Peel Bo Choi in one advancing motion."

I don't see where he says this and it is this quote that has me thinking we are looking at two different articles yet everything else you quoted him as saying is in the article I am referencing. Could you point out which paragraph and sentence he makes this comment? Also, if I am reading your technique description correctly, my version of this form which is identical to his does not have a hammer fist strike (pek jahp) followed by a peel-replace punch (tiu bo chui). Could you tell me the photo numbers that correlate to the sequence in question? If you could elaborate this part, we can continue to discuss this.

YM

Finally got them up.

[Shen Zhou]

Thanks again for your reply. And no offense taken I understand that like beauty like interpretations are also in the eye of the beholder. In this case the reader. I must admit you are a step ahead of me in being a native speaker and reader of Chinese literature. Thanks again for your translation. I do not have the article in front of me but I believe it is the 8th paragraph from which the translation is from. When I have time to sit down with the article in front of me I will give you a more detailed description. Just to see if where looking at the same article does your compare this set to a running river? Thanks again YM....

Shen Zhou

[Shen Zhou]

I have found my error. I have been corrected by a Chinese Co Worker of mine who I gave a copy of the article to. He also can find no mention of the Standing Meditation sections I asked about. I believe we have the same article but I may have ran together some side notes into the articles translations. I will double check with my Sifu when he has time. He also being versed in Chinese martial literature is a much better source of translation information then I. YM thank you for sharing with me your wealth of knowledge and interpretations on Yao Ling Kuen. Are you actively teaching at your own school now?

Shen Zhou

[Young Mantis]

The article starts with how NPM was spread to Southern China by LGY. Then about the conitnuation of the propagation of the style from generation to generation. Then general characteristics about the NPM style and finally about the Yao Ling form.

Yes, at one point, he describes the flow of this form like that of the Yangtze River, continuosly flowing.

[Shen Zhou]

YM,

I will scan a copy and send it to your email. If that is ok.

Shen Zhou

[mantis108]

Hi Young Mantis and All,

How about this:

With the demeanour of fortitude and vigour.

I would love to see the second line also. If it is possible, I would love to see the entire article as well. So it would be greatly appreciated if it can be scanned and uploaded. Thanks :)

Warm regards

Mantis108

[Young Mantis]

Shen zhou,

No, I do not have my own school. I am an assistant instructor for my Sifu.

Mantis108, thanks for the added translation. I know you understand the complexity of the last 4 characters.

YM

[Joe Mantis]

Tainan Mantis

Drop me an e-mail, or PM me about this Yau Ling Cheun.

BTW the for moves up and back a couple of times.


Joe Mantis

[German Bai Lung]

Originally posted by Tainan Mantis
In Wah Lum Yau Lin Chuen is one of the old sets of 12 passed on by Li Kun Shan.
You are the first person to mention having learned it.
I have also wondered if it is connected or related to the 7* form.

Can you describe the movement?
Does it stay in one place or move down a "road"

What does Yau Ling mean? Does it mean flexibility and agility?

I know two forms with similiar sounding:
Yau Ling Chou Kuen
Yau Ling Choeng Kuen

But maybe I´m totaly wrong...

[Tainan Mantis]

Joe Mantis,
I don't have your address, you send me.

German,
The Yau Ling charcter are all the same.
The meaning depends on the characters, differenet people use different ones with completely different meaning.
BTW, I think the other 2 forms you mentioed are recent additions while the first is much older.

[Joe Mantis]

Tainan,

check your e-mail.

JM

[MantisifuFW]

Bai Lung,

On the mainland, for both Qixing and Meihua divisions of Tanglang, there is only one Yau Ling Quan, (Kuen). It is similar across both schools and is also similar to the HK version of this set.

Three students of Luo Guangyu are the best-known teachers of his system, Chu Chi Man, Chun Chin Yee and Wong Hon Fun. All three branches of HK Tanglang have the Yau Ling Quan, (Kuen) form. Only the Chu Chi Man line has two other versions of a Yau Ling set.

As Tainan has said, the two other versions of Yau Ling Quan, that of Yau Ling Zhang, (palm) and Yau Ling Zhou, (elbow) are newer extrapolations of the principles presented in Yau Ling Quan. Neither have I found these sets in my information on master Luo Guangyu's curriculum.

With all this information bracketing the timeframe of these set's appearance, it seems that they were interpretations created by Grandmaster Chu Chi Man. Personally, I believe that with all the interaction between Masters Chu and Luo over the years they were together, that there was much information not on paper that he wanted to preserve for future generations. The most effective way to do this was to institutionalize these ideas in sets, just as Master Luo had done before him.

I am, always, open to evidence to the contrary...

Anyway I hope this helps,

Steve Cottrell

[German Bai Lung]

That makes some things clear!
I didn´t know that before.

One more point to talk about next time with my Sifu... ;)

Thanks for the Information MantiSifuFW!

[Joe Mantis]

Tainan,

Did you get my e-mail about this form?
If so, what are your thoughts. Is it Praying Mantis Yao ling kuen?

Thanks,

JM

[Tainan Mantis]

Hi JM,
I have seen the Rou Ling 7* PM form and the Dzuo Ling PM form.
Both absolute mantis.

The Tom Turcotte version of WL Yao Ling has a strong Ditang and Southern influence.
I could not recognize anywhere in the form 2 PM techniques in a row, maybe not even one.

The TJPM Ditang form shares some moves with this WL form, but those are interspersed with Mantis.