being lean and trying to lose weight

[rubthebuddha]

this isn't a situation i've been in since high school (:D) and, thus, is only a theoretical question, but how would an already lean person trying to drop weight (say, for a tourney) lose weight without losing strength? if already lean, there's only so much body fat to give up. suggestions and theories?

[IronFist]

Stop eating? Haha I dunno. I would image they'd diet like any other person, just not quite as extreme. Keeping protein high, etc.

[blooming lotus]

I am very lean always...when I want to drop a few pounds quickly and take a high burn, I will normally do a baga fast...up astringents..like lemon juice ..stay away from dairy or if I absolutely must eat I'll take someting like tuna in springwater followed with soda water (no more than 5-10g carbs / day). Also I might decide to up hot water intake to assist the flush. Keep cardio high and you will enter a zone that will contiue to burn a serious rate. Energy will be high, but I don't suggest doing this for any more than 3-4 days max before health and mind start to suffer

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by blooming lotus
Keep cardio high and you will enter a zone that will contiue to burn a serious rate.

I've always read that the burn from cardio drops off after about 4 hours. muscle mass is what causes a continuous burn, as it requires calories to sustain that mass.

[Ford Prefect]

Focus your training on neurological efficiency rather than strength through muscle growth/size. For "cardio" train wind sprints as your staple rather than long sustained effort stuff. Drink a lot of water everyday to prevent water retension. The night before weigh-in stop drinking all-together to completely dehydrate yourself. You'll drop A LOT of water weight. Once weighed in, start guzzling the H20.

[mickey]

Hi blooming lotus,

I agree with SevenStar on this. Improve your muscle mass. I would prefer to keep those few pounds as reserve for a long day at a tournament. The extra weight that you carry is your body's need for an amount of mass that is necessary for optimal functioning. If you can meet that requirement with more muscle mass, great.

I get the impression that you want a certain look instead of a certain level of functioning. If that is the case let me warn you that the Bruce Lee look (ripped and shredded), though impressive, was the result of long working hours and minimal rest and nourishment. That look was copied by Frank Zane who went on to win the Mr. Olympia a few times. Bruce Lee's influence is still present in the bodybuliding world and I don't think it is a good thing. People have died from trying to get ripped and cut like that.

I hope that is not your case.

mickey

[blooming lotus]

Fair statements all round. I agree that the methods I describe are only for the extremists and can make health volatile. It is not reccommended to this over long periods or without extreme knowledge of various bodily system function (including nueroloical proccesses). Hell...sometimes I have trouble planning my next move myself. I sware these methods have far greater benifit than asthetic value...however, body conditioning for me is a 24/7 thing...You're right ...it can be detrimental to persons health and in everyday advising, i would never reccomend these things to MR/MS av.Joe....so ahhh...point taken, guess I was wrong...again:D

[mickey]

blooming lotus,

More food for thought:

During an interview about High Intensity Training, the late Mike Mentzer was asked if there was any adverse effect of such a training method. He replied that a person may experience "renal failure."

mickey

[IronFist]

The Bruce Lee look is also the result of genetics. I'm not saying he didn't train hard, I'm just saying that a lot of it was genetics.

Bodybuilder's didn't really "copy" him. It's more like Bodybuilders want to be lean for a competition anyway, and Bruce Lee happened to be lean anyway.

He also thought bodybuilders were at the top of the game when it came to weight training.

[mickey]

Hi Ironfist,

The musculature was genetic the definition was, again, due to excessive work, and inadequate rest. Bruce Lee looked his best when he was doing Fist of Fury and The Chinese Connection. What came later was pretty much a downward health spiral towards superstardom. Even his students (Inosanto comes to mind) were concerned about his emaciated look.

He did inspire the Frank Zane look. Other bodybuilders were trying to match Zane in vascularity and the dominoes keep falling.

mickey

[blooming lotus]

renal failure..I'm hearing ya...like I said it's toey business and sometimes as elite athletes we take caculated risks with our bodies that we would never recommend to someone else ....

As for Bruce lee and his emasculation...it's probably of some interest to note here that alot of highly talented, worked and extremely knowledgeable monks and masters who have cultivated in extreme circumstances (and who have gone on to live to very old ages) have been pictured looking much the same. Modern knowledge is based on different ideas and ideals and I hate to say it but I am solid that qi cultivation and control has alot to do with being able to maintain power and health in this apparently emasculated state.

Ps..Bruce lee was as part of his zen philosophy always open and enthusiastic about new ideas...just thought it worth mentioning

[mickey]

Hi,

I was rereading my posts and felt tthe need to clarify the Mentzer interview. He was referring to his H.I.T. method.

Nevertheless, anything taken to the extreme has consequences.

I do not know whether Bruce really practiced any particular "chi" development exercise; yet, running and weight training has been viewed by some as such.

In an article about the natural style, it was noted that Wan Laisheng had seen a photograph of Bruce Lee and noticed the need for internal development. The feel that I got was that, healthwise, Master Wan saw that Bruce in a danger zone.

mickey

[mickey]

Continuation:

Much of our current (modern) training and nutritional methods require the energy of the kidneys and/or adrenals. Even Mike Dayton's Chi Mind Control taps in to the use of adrenal energy. The current line of supplements predispose athletes to future complications --kidney disease, kidney failure, and diabetes. We need to improve our training and nutritional methods to allow for a more integrated approach to energy development (Chi Kung/Daoyin) and use. Doing so would not only improve the careers of practitioners, it would also extend their lives.

mickey

[IronFist]

Originally posted by mickey
The current line of supplements predispose athletes to future complications --kidney disease, kidney failure, and diabetes.

To what supplements are you referring?

[mickey]

Hello Ironfist

#1- Creatine: in my book, the most dangerous product on the market. Long term studies are being done on the cosumer: you!Alonzo Mourning and Shawn Elliott of the Orlando Magic were both pencilnecks before creatine came out. Presto, and they are diesel. Strangely, they both came down with the same kidney condition. What are the odds of that happening anywhere? If you don't take enough water your kidneys work harder and if not start to behave like a backed up septic system with 2 years of krap in it.

#2- Protein supplements: they are marketed to offer more protein per serving than the body can really handle by itself. This can damage the kidneys to the point where they cannot function properly. Some products try to induce insulin release which really is not a good thing. The natural way is best.

#3- Fat loss/ diuretic- flushing action not good for the kidneys.

mickey

[mickey]

Continuation:

Not much is known about the interrelationship our internal organs have with each other in Western Medicine. Chinese medicine makes use of the Five elements and assigns an element to each organ. Chinese medicine looks to have balance and harmony between each one. To stress one organ/element excessively will not only trouble that element, it will affect the others. Five element theory is more complex that that. The complexity is not necessary to reinforce the point that I am making.

mickey