Can anyone recomend a good video for shaolin muscle-tendon change?

[secondregime]

Can anyone recomend a good video for shaolin muscle-tendon change?

[GeneChing]

One for $24.95 (http://store.yahoo.com/martialartsmart/vidshaolmusc.html), another for $39.95 (http://store.yahoo.com/martialartsmart/pr-gs001.html).

[secondregime]

Is there a difference between the two video's, besides the price? Which would you recomend?

[blooming lotus]

I can't tell you about guo LINCH but Shi De Qian is one Chinas' top 10 grand masters (according the esteemed opinion of our kfm friends)...also one of my personal mentors and heroes reknowed for his internal prowess and affectionately known as the jumping flea for his internal control. Do you know this guy can jump several carraiges of a train from hands on kness cold stationary..crazy :cool:

[PHILBERT]

Originally posted by secondregime
Is there a difference between the two video's, besides the price? Which would you recomend?

Not sure about the $39.95 one, but I've seen (own) the $24.95 one and recommend it. Good video, easy to follow, etc. Though the $40 supports the forum $15 extra dollars than the $25 one. :p

[MasterKiller]

I have the Shi Goulin one. It's easy to follow, and they speak in English so you know what you are supposed to be doing as far as breathing, etc.

I don't think the other one is in English, is it?

[GeneChing]

In fact, we were granted exclusive rights to translate it from the distributer in China. There is a Chinese version too, of course.

Personally, I think they're both good. The forms are consistent with each other, more or less, and yet each offers a slightly different take on it.

Shi Deqian is the author of something like 60 books on Shaolin, including the encyclopedia. He also did this poster on yijinjing (http://store.yahoo.com/martialartsmart/8511.html), which I should have mentioned earleir, but I was in a rush.

Shi Guolin is now in NY. He's been on our cover twice Aug 2000 (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/magazine/article.php?article=121) & Oct/Nov 97 (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/magazine/article.php?article=75), you can check out his cover stories there.

People often ask me which of the two I'd recommend and I don't really have an answer. When I research something, I get all of the resources I can. All of them. Of course, I certainly understand when budget prohibits this strategy, in which case, I recommend doing what your budget commands. What else can you do?

[MasterKiller]

What else can you do? You mean besides ask the guy who sells/translated the videos which one he thinks is better so you can get the most bang for your buck? :D

[ninja]

i here they are gonna have the qigong compulsory form category in the 2008 olympics in shanghai

[blooming lotus]

don't you mean shaolin empty fist compulsories..and if the olympics is in Shanghai, I have to have another chat with my travel agent...

Just jiving Ninja dude..The olympics will be in Beijing..see you there ha ;)

Gene, good point Mk raises...Guolin having trained the monks for so long, and Deqian being who he is...who do you recommend? Obiviously they're both good for different reasons, but who and why...... Really..can you answer that?

[ninja]

NO I MEAN QIGONG FORM IN THE OLYMPICS. BA DUAN, YI JIN JING AND THE LIKE. I'M GLAD THEY HAVE APPROVED THIS. THOUGH THE MONK TEACHERS DONT TEACH QIGONG. QIGONG FORMS ARE ONLY WHAT THEY DO BEFORE THEY BREAK A HOLLOW STICK THEIR LEG OR HEAD. IT'S FOR SHOW. IT LOOKS COOL THOUGH AND THAT'S WHAT EXCITES ME. SO I'M GLAD ABOUT THIS NEW CATEGORY. YOU CAN LEARN THE FORM FROM THE BOOK WITH THE CHINA APPLICATION

[GeneChing]

I mean, I worked on one, and I used to practice yijinjing, and I got something out of both videos. I can tell you about the process of translating Deqian's if you like. Maybe that will help.

Deqian's original narration was insufficient, so I embellished it from my own research. I added some pointers and filled out the gaps, using other classical sources of Songshan yinjinjing - all that I had at my disposal, including Guolin's. Now, it's worthy of note that Guolin's is in both Chinese and English, so there's a redundancy on the narration if you're bilingual or a dead spot if you're not. I think my translation is a little more complete, but I'm biased, of course. I suppose the real issue is the postures. Guolin is younger and his postures are more robust then Deqian, but then again, there's something to be said for an old guy's method too. So for me personally, its' a push on which is better. It's really hard for me to judge my own work, even vain for me to say mine is better (besides I only did the translation and the words you can pick up off the poster - it's the postures that you're after with a video). I do like Guolin's video a lot and found it very informative for my own practice. I respect both masters greatly and think both videos have something to offer. But again, from my position, it's different. I make my living doing researching martial arts, so I always get every available source. I never have to choose between two - I just get them both. I have to. Cost is not a factor when your trying to do good research.

Of course, I keep this forum running by selling stuff, so I'd much rather you just buy both. Actually, we don't make more money on Guolin's - he set the price - so it's not like I'd push you towards one for the money. So given my position, I'm not really the one to ask. In truth, I'd love to hear the comments from other forum members. I'm too close to it all to see it clearly, at least in this case.

ninja - you trippin' - the 2008 olympics are in Beijing and only modern wushu taolu is making a bid.

[blooming lotus]

I guess I put you on the spot a bit with that one, but I'm sold anyway..so I'll have one each and look forward to hearing the reviews from others ;) nicely handled..... cheers

[ninja]

i know geney baby. i'm just having fun killing time at work. you have to admit that this whole martial arts world is pretty hilarious. we have to laugh at how obssesive we are about all of this. you just practice. there's not to much to talk about. videos of kung fu are for entertainment. nobody can achieve a high level of skill by watching the videos. you need a teacher that is willing to teach details to dedicated students. and you need time and practice. the forum is for fun. you can be anyone through the forum

[Shaolinlueb]

leave it do gene to answer with the plugs :cool:

[blooming lotus]

It's thanx to those plugs we even have a forum to hang out at..and fyi..I for one have gained plenty of good quality info on these here boards......being a newbie and all ninja, hang about, you never know what you'll learn ;)

(like the fact the olympics are in Beijing for example :D )

[PHILBERT]

Heck, alot of people, myself included, will do plugs on these boards. Gene is just the King of them. Hail to the King, baby.

[Shaolinlueb]

Originally posted by blooming lotus
It's thanx to those plugs we even have a forum to hang out at..and fyi..I for one have gained plenty of good quality info on these here boards......being a newbie and all ninja, hang about, you never know what you'll learn ;)

(like the fact the olympics are in Beijing for example :D )


I like the plugs. I never knew martialartsmart has had the stuff gene plugs. They have more and more I find out :D

[GeneChing]

...it's a big train, this forum, a training train, and like Casey Jones, it's chuggin' uphill saying "I think I can I think I can I think..." Most people are sitting their asses down in the lounge car watchin', enjoyin' the view. But me, I gotta keep this train a'runnin' so I'm shovellin' coal into the furnace constantly. That's what those plugs are - coal. And I'll keep shovelling 'til we make it over that hill. ;)

ninja - The martial world is very hilarious, but I'd disagree about learning high level stuff off video. Now I don't think you can use video alone, but I don't think you can use any single media alone, not just video, not just books, not just your sifu, not just watching animals in nature - to reach high level, you got to use everything, use it all. It's absurd not too. Why deprive yourself on information? You can even learn from bad examples. Some people theorize that the difference between and expert and a novice is that an expert knows what not to do. An expert doesn't pursue poor alternatives, thus reducing his or her degrees of freedom for a higher probability for the correct solution. It's about efficient response. Therefore, if you haven't explored all the alternatives, you'll still be fishing for the right move when the time comes, instead of knowing what works and what doesn't.

[ninja]

I certainly agree. We should be open to all media. But time is also very valuable and it shouldn't be waisted. I think you learn most about martial by practicing what your teach shows you. My teacher stopped learning from his teacher at age 9. He then practiced what he learned until it felt natural. Even while he was taught by the abbott he was left alone to practice. You have to take upon the responsibility to train yourself. The videos can do very little compared to actually practicing. I watch everything video i can get my hands on because it's fun

[mortal]

I know you guys make money off selling videos. But whenever I here someone thinking they actually learned a form off of one. It makes me laugh. Especially people with no prior training.
People that are in my class still do the form wrong after years and they are learning it first hand. They think their technique is correct when that couldn't be further from the truth. Sifu corrects them all the time. 2 seconds later they haven't changed. They just don't get it.
Since I have 5 dedicated years of training under my belt. I could probably mimic forms off of videos pretty well. That doesn't mean I am doing it correctly. It just would be an empty frame of what it really should be.

[MasterKiller]

After 5 years, you should be able to watch a form and deconstruct it yourself. So what if your foot is at 90° instead of 85°. Examine the moves and extract the meaning.

[ninja]

he's go a point mortal. you must not go to class too much. we should train privately with shaolinmasterkiller. Maybe he could teach us the applications to the da lohan form.

[mortal]

I already got the apps from the video. Now I can teach the form in level 3 with the chinna I learned in the book.

I got my green sash in Hung gar through my video tutelage.

[ninja]

mortal,

which tapes were those. i've been looking for a good hung gar video.

[phoenix-eye]

Agree with Gene - do you not think that if Wong Fei Hung (insert name of any other martial hero from the past) was around today that he wouldn't make full use of every available resource - video, DVD, book, internet. Of course he would - the world has moved on. Traditionalists should not lose sight of the fact that the oldest tradition is change...

Also mostly agree with ninja/mortal - of course, you cannot and should not "learn" a form solely from video, especially if you are a novice, and then claim that you know kung fu. However, if, as Masterkiller says, you have some years of good experience from a sifu then why can't you deconstruct a form from video and self-correct? You should have enough bulbs in the cupboard to make sure the light comes on.

There is a lot to be said for the student who seeks out every available source of information, including that from his sifu, to advance. If this means a student "learning" a form on his own from video and then seeking correction/improvement from a knowledgeable Sifu then this, to me, is better than a dull minded student who shows no real interest from one lesson to the next.

Of course there is the danger of learning too much to soon and that is where personal judgement and control must step in but we are in an information age and should make full use of it to advance us.

However, as was said - practice is the key. Is someone who learns a form off a video and practices 100 times a day any worse than someone who learns from a sifu and practices once a week?

I'm sure WFH would be stocking up from MartialArtsMart as we type........

[GeneChing]

Sure we make money of videos, but it's not like that's a bad thing. There is an economy to the martial arts - we need money, everyone needs money. It's not like we're making so much money that we're not as good as you (although personally, I kinda wish we were :p ). Consider that we lose money on this forum (and many other endevours) it's a constant battle to make moeny in the martial arts. Try it, if you don't beleive me.

However, back OT, I think you've nailed the misconception on the head when you said:

Especially people with no prior training.
Everyone has to start somewhere. The biggest man you ever did see was once a baby. I would hope that most people start with a real live flesh & blood master. In fact, legally, we have to say this because of liability (which means people who have no common sense are protected by the law here). I've never personally learned a form from a video or a book, but I've got too many forms now. I'm just looking for moves, concepts, ideas, etc. Sometimes I'll see something in someone else's form that I can apply to my own, and that I can easily lift off video. It means we all live in a very exciting time for the martial arts, because so much is at our disposal in terms of different media and ways to do this kind of research.

[blooming lotus]

never Gene?? Really ...you have never seen some thing/form/style /person on video /dvd/vcd and pulled aprt there form or application and made adjustments as results? Crazy...


AND THIS FOLKS IS WHY GENE IS OUR HERO !!!!!!:p


:D :D :D

[richard sloan]

Originally posted by ninja
...QIGONG FORMS ARE ONLY WHAT THEY DO BEFORE THEY BREAK A HOLLOW STICK THEIR LEG OR HEAD...


I *wish* ours were hollow, lol...found out the hard way that sh it hurts when we did the Discovery channel.

Not as bad as when I got whacked with a baseball bat but I pussied out midstrike just hitting myself to "see." A lot of those sticks are made of hemlock so don't eat them, heh heh heh.

Qigong forms in the Olympics?

snnnnnoooooooooooooooooooooooooooze...maybe if they got everybody dressed up in monster costumes and then had space robots hit them with foam meteors while the monsters did Yi Jin Jing that would be worth watching.