Insulted in passing

[Ray Pina]

The other day I was accused of making the art I study sound "mystical."

It occured to me after sparring the other day that even as an internalist, I never talk about chi or anything other than mechanics and methods here.

Some of my long standing arguments: High round house kicks are dangerous ... for the kicker.

Shooting presents the shooter's head while going for the leg ... might not be a good trade.

With that said, all MA should be comfortable fighting on the ground.

My biggest beef: most martial artists block from the inside out or outside in ... very bad odds. Hard to shoot a plane down crossing your axis. You must be head on or trailing in a dog fight. So we block infront of us, keeping the door closed... elbows block hooks and outside attacks.


Disagree with me of course! But what is mystical about this?

Above all, I am willing to test my methodology -- not simply philosophise about it -- against other styles (and they can do their thing, I don't limit them to only standing or only ground, or no head strikes or kicks).

I have tons to learn and huge room for growth. I am fanatical about martial arts, but I am not a fanatic. I believe in what I am training, because I've trained in other Japanese and Chinese systems. Like all styles, they had their strenghts and weaknesses. I've now found the style for me and believe in it 100%

[Ben Gash]

You haven't said why they said you were mystical :confused:

[Water Dragon]

It's the internet. Don't take it so seriously. Also, put on a fresh pair of silk panties before you post. You'll be in a better mood.

[SevenStar]

on occasion you sound as if you are training in the greatest style in the world and how nobody can touch you because of it. you don't make it sound mystical....I think elitism is a more appropriate word.

[ShaolinTiger00]

Shooting presents the shooter's head while going for the leg ... might not be a good trade.

The reason a shoot may not be a good trade is that it is a high risk option vs. a SKILLED opponent. big gain if you get it, big loss and bad position if you don't.

most shoots will have the head suffieciently covered by a tucked chin and raised hands, low elbows. you may land a scuffing blow but it's pretty unlikely you'll "stop" him.

[Water Dragon]

In all fairness Ray, I don't get that impression from you.

If a BJJ guy talks about how great his art is and how much he has gotten from it, it's pride in the art.

If a CMA guy does the same thing, it's elitism.

Just deal with it, I've gotten it too.

[apoweyn]

Efist,

The reference to you sounding mystical wasn't connected to technical points. Only to your descriptions of your teacher and your style. Now, I'm not going to tell you how you should feel about either one. Or even how you should express yourself. But it's a public forum. People are going to react to you however they react. And you have to deal with that.

Comments about how you're "getting the good stuff" rub some people the wrong way. It sounds like you've tapped into 'the glow' while everyone else is floundering around.


Stuart B.

[fa_jing]

I've always thought that when it comes down to a competition between two skilled opponents, you have to take risks to win. Risks that might not be adviseable in a Self-Defense/Street/Battle situation.

For instance, say I have a technique that gives me a 60% chance of winning, and 40% chance of losing outright. These are decent chances for the ring, and terrible chances outside the ring.

[red5angel]

Comments about how you're "getting the good stuff" rub some people the wrong way. It sounds like you've tapped into 'the glow' while everyone else is floundering around.

to be fair Ap, wouldn't this go against your sig ;)

What I mean is - while that may be what it sounds like, should we assume that is what he means? When I have read his posts I generally get the sense that he is really feeling his art, hitting those epiphanies we all hit from time to time and just sharing that, not posting hat his is better or bigger then yours. I'm actually usually a bit surprised at the responses he elicits because it seems generally he gets a pretty negative reception.

[MasterKiller]

When you say things like you don't worry about being attacked in Time Square because you know you are the baddest mofo there, it comes off as arrogant and solipsistic.

Your comments about the high round kick weren't picked on so much as your insistence that CMA only has 1 kick, which you eventually retracted.

Throwing challenges down left and right also comes off as arrogant and rash.

Passion is great, and you seem to have a lot of it. In the end, who cares what a bunch of guys on the internet think. Train the way you want, and live the way you want. Just don't expect others to value the same things you do.

[GeneChing]

"Mystical" means having a spiritual reality, something not apparent to the intellect or senses. It means direct communion with the ultimate reality - or God if you will. The comment was probably meant to be derogatory, but in reality, it's very flattering. Good on you!

[apoweyn]

Red5angel,


to be fair Ap, wouldn't this go against your sig

Perhaps. I'm not immune from being an arse.

But there's a sliding scale. On one end is assumption. On the other is verifiable fact, I suppose. And somewhere in the middle is inference.


What I mean is - while that may be what it sounds like, should we assume that is what he means? When I have read his posts I generally get the sense that he is really feeling his art, hitting those epiphanies we all hit from time to time and just sharing that, not posting hat his is better or bigger then yours. I'm actually usually a bit surprised at the responses he elicits because it seems generally he gets a pretty negative reception.

Do you honestly think I'm advocating that he be less passionate about his practice? He's feeling insulted and wondering why another forum member characterized him a certain way. I'm suggesting that it's because of the way he presents himself. It creates an impression shared by more than one person. So it's not fluke.

I also said that I would never dictate how he should feel or how he should present it.


Stuart B.

[Abstract]

not to post-jack, but...

ain't NOBODY gonna attack you in times square...that place is like disney land and has been for quite awhile. If someone attacks you in times square it's cause you have 'sucka boy' written all over your face, and you were bound to be robbed/assaulted ANYWHERE at some point in your life...now, Morrisiana or Mott Haven in the BX, that's a different story :D


while i can see how EF might ruffle some ppl's feathers, it doesn't bother me a bit.:cool:

but i never get the impression that EF is elitist...i get the impression he's found what he's looking for & genuinely believes in it...so good for you man...:cool: some ppl should be so fortunate.

[fa_jing]

I've always respected E-Fist because he is a CMA guy who actually fights and tries to apply the principles for himself. I have disagreed on technical points with him in the past, but so what. At least he didn't insult the Eagles.

This board and CMA in general are lacking more guys like E-fist. I was contacted by one of Tim Cartmell's top students, a former Kuoshu champ, and full time fitness author and instructor - he's coming into town to give a seminar, and wants to spend his Saturday evening meeting my Sifu and watching him teach. He saw some of our clips, and was so impressed to see an experienced Sifu putting on the gloves and sparring his students, that on that fact alone he wants to meet my teacher.

problems, problems, problems in the world of CMA....sigh

[shaolinboxer]

Ha, I'm with Gene.

[Ray Pina]

A few things I noticed:

"big gain if you get it, big loss and bad position if you don't."

FROM MY UNDERSTANDING, this is called 50/50. Not the odds I want as a fighter. If you were in the army, do you want a 50/50 chance of getting shot crossing the street?

Anything can happen in fighting, but place the odds in your favor a smuch as possible. I never try to do something that puts me in a bad position if I fail. I only do something after I have controled the guy. Of course, the other guy may be better and PUT me in a bad position.

Have any of you seen Smashing Machine? The first fight Kerr loses expresses several of my points. He round house kicks the guy before controlling him (yes its tempting to get a long distance free bee). The guy caught his kick and knocked him right down with a solid strike.

As for elite. No way! I lose fights! I lose fights more than I'd like too. But its the fitghts that I have lost that have taught me the most -- honestly. I plan on losing more fights in the future! Who hasn't?

...

Times Square. I do feel safe there (not because I'm "the baddest mofo" ... but that attitude doesn't hurt when push comes to shove) but someone was stabbed and killed at a club there not too long ago ... after the summer.
...

I'm just a martial artist who has found what he was looking for, after a lot of looking. Why if I say I'm not scared of the high round house or the hook, I got the glow? Anybody doing HSing-I should not fear these two attacks. They style is built to beat those things. The low front kick ... that is the kick I respect the most. And like the style that I love, it keeps things basic.

All styles are good! if you train them properly. I respect the BJJ guys a lot, but I know where they are weak. I respect the TKD kicking, but I know where they are weak. You should know where styles are weak. And we should discuss it to fill in the holes. I know where I am weak. I'm trying to fill those holes too. And the only way I have found is to drill and then test. Take your lumps now and then and go back to the drawing board. I don't free fight a lot. Maybe 2 or 3 times a year with a stranger. The rest is testing and sparring.
...

As for challenges, I have never, out of the blue said to someone: "I challenge you". But if someone disagrees with a statement like, a high round house kick is very dangerous, and they insist, I suggest they try it. THEY MIGHT GET ME! There ability to kick high may be better than my ability to jam the high roundhouse kick. But my hands are close to his target, it doesn't take much to cover and step inside. That foot is all the way down there and he'll be on one leg. Those are the odds I'm looking for. No such thing as perfect, but I can live with those odds.

Rewarding training

[MasterKiller]

As for challenges, I have never, out of the blue said to someone: "I challenge you". But if someone disagrees with a statement like, a high round house kick is very dangerous, and they insist, I suggest they try it. I seem to remember you threatening me and my sifu for a smart @ss remark I made, but that's better left in the past. Recently, you seemed to have challenged Bmore Banga as well, but I suppose that is between you two and none of my business.

At any rate, I was just trying to answer your question.

[CrippledAvenger]

And on a semi-related note, anyone ever wonder why everything's like a soap opera here? I can't find a good answer why, but I'll be ****ed if this doesn't beat Telemundo.

[Water Dragon]

Nah, Telemundo has more tities. Although we do have more boobs.

[lkfmdc]

telemundo tiene muchas chicas mas lindas :D

I get eye strain from watching :p

[Pork Chop]

I got more respect for yah after that last post.

What got on my nerves was passing opinions as absolutes. Especially when you're claiming an absolute about something you (from your own words) have little to no experience with.

Qualifiers and extra words that keep something from being an absolute may be a waste of time to you; but when you leave them out you leave yourself open to such criticism.

Good luck on the 24th, glad you found something you like to train.


FYI
EF never made spelled out a challenge to me, but the implication seemed to be there.

[Merryprankster]

First off, I said it, just in case anybody needs to know.

Secondly, if you read what I wrote, what I was knocking was the fact that quite frankly, you come on here and write stuff, that for all intents and purposes, reads very much like the sort of things I hear from religious propagandists--as though your Sifu could do no wrong. The tone of awe in your posts freaks me out.

I respect your opinions and I respect you for stepping up to the plate. It's the presentation I've got a little problem with.

And as I said, some people have problems with MY presentation so hey, what's the fuss?

[Ray Pina]

I'll be the first to admit, I am in awe of my master. And it's not out of need or some empty place in my life. I've had tons of coaches (baseball, basketball and football) as well as sifu's and senseis. I've respected them all. This is different; and not all about technique. He has helped the way I understand my body, the way I think and aproach to life.

He's just a man, but a great one.

[Merryprankster]

E-fist--

Well, if he's had that much of an impact, perhaps he DOES deserve that level of praise from you.

[ShaolinTiger00]

Don't you love it when you log on to KFO and see that MP posted on a thread? I do.

MP takes the things I want to say and writes them in a way that gets them across while being marginally restrained and calm.

I always come off with an extreme view.

ex. - I just want to smack you in the face and kick your ass you little *****..

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by Abstract
not to post-jack, but...

ain't NOBODY gonna attack you in times square...that place is like disney land and has been for quite awhile. If someone attacks you in times square it's cause you have 'sucka boy' written all over your face, and you were bound to be robbed/assaulted ANYWHERE at some point in your life...now, Morrisiana or Mott Haven in the BX, that's a different story :D


while i can see how EF might ruffle some ppl's feathers, it doesn't bother me a bit.:cool:

but i never get the impression that EF is elitist...i get the impression he's found what he's looking for & genuinely believes in it...so good for you man...:cool: some ppl should be so fortunate.

yeah, elitist was probably the wrong word, but was more fitting than mystical. His posts don't bother me personally, but I can see why he offends some.

[Merryprankster]

Ah, only when I'm feeling reasonable.

Lately, I've just been an angry little passive-aggressive smart ass.

That's probably why I like the guard. I'm a sneaky little ****, just like Neidermeyer...

[ketchup]

EvolutionFist,

I think the reason people take issue with your posts about your sifu (I saw it on the internal board too) is because of what I call 'martial arts insanity.' I used to have it and have seen it in a number of others. What it involves is people who want something. They want it very badly. However, they don't know what this something looks like. Everyone has a different opinion as to where this something can be found and what it looks like. And even if you're lucky enough to find a teacher that actually has this something, he may not teach it to you. Many students are unaware of the something. Some want it and know they don't have it. Some think they have it but don't. Some think they don't have it but do. And the only way to know if you have this something is by fighting, which many of these seekers never do or will do. Even if you do fight, though, it doesn't necessarily establish the presence or absence of this something. Maybe you have the something but your opponent just had more of it than you. Maybe your teacher and art have the something, but you just need to train it longer, etc., etc., etc,.....So, ultimately, you have alot of martial artists studying something but part of them is always looking over their shoulder in case the something, or something better, should finally appear. A kind of paranoia.
So when you go on about your sifu I think you're making SOME others uncomfortable with their somethingness, or lack thereof. My personal solution- after much unpleasantness and unhappiness and insanity- I said to h*ll with the something. If I get it, I get it, if I don't, I don't. There are more important things in life to me.How valuable this something really is anymore nowadays is grounds for another thread.

[Ray Pina]

Thank you. You just taught me something valuable.

[MasterKiller]

So when you go on about your sifu I think you're making SOME others uncomfortable with their somethingness, or lack thereof. Why does every argument about style/individual have to come down to jealousy? Why can't you just not like someone?

[CaptinPickAxe]

I don't like you, MK:mad:













:D

[MasterKiller]

You're just jealous.

[blooming lotus]

LOL at the the way this thread has turned.....

ie "b*tch b*tch...ohhh I'm sorry...no i'm sorry...i'm sorrier...well in that case I'm not sorry..f you..no f you...."

very endearing.:p....

[ketchup]

Upon further thought, I think the reason so many are having trouble finding this something is because they're looking in the wrong place. Outside. Instead of in

[yenhoi]

EF reminds me of RD, except he sounds like he can fight.

I dont like red5, or mk, or any of the SC MMA wannabes.

Just plain sad. :(

[CrippledAvenger]

Yenhoi, that cuts man. To the BONE.

::shrugs::

[rogue]

And this is what this place would be like without the non-CMA guys.:p

[BAI HE]

Not to go Off Topic - But how come, no matter what time you tune in , there's always some Latino babe in a bikini top jumping up and down?

I'm not complaining. I wish this phenomena would catch on here, hell EVERYWHERE!

[diego]

Originally posted by EvolutionFist
I'll be the first to admit, I am in awe of my master. And it's not out of need or some empty place in my life. I've had tons of coaches (baseball, basketball and football) as well as sifu's and senseis. I've respected them all. This is different; and not all about technique. He has helped the way I understand my body, the way I think and aproach to life.

He's just a man, but a great one.

:eek:

not to be an ass but i'm so fighting back releasing a cliche micheal jackson joke right now...not to spam ya thread or nothing, I'm just saying.
Peace

[diego]

Originally posted by BAI HE
Not to go Off Topic - But how come, no matter what time you tune in , there's always some Latino babe in a bikini top jumping up and down?

I'm not complaining. I wish this phenomena would catch on here, hell EVERYWHERE!

i don't see any latinas running around...just yall whiny biat$%^:D

[BAI HE]

God I hate takin crap from "southern" bums on the main forum!

[MasterKiller]

Originally posted by yenhoi
EF reminds me of RD, except he sounds like he can fight.

I dont like red5, or mk, or any of the SC MMA wannabes.

Just plain sad. :( No love lost there.