Vegetarian diets and Athleticism

[zen_celt]

I've recently gone back to a vegetarian diet and am trying to figure out how to maintain my training regimen and get bigger while adhering to a no-meat or fish diet. Suggestions?
-ZC

[Rory]

Tempeh, Seitan, other meat replacement

[IronFist]

Originally posted by zen_celt
I've recently gone back to a vegetarian diet and am trying to figure out how to maintain my training regimen and get bigger while adhering to a no-meat or fish diet. Suggestions?
-ZC

Nope. Remember, you won't get bigger without a caloric surplus, and it's difficult to get enough calories on a vegetarian diet.

Do you eat things like milk? I don't know how much of a vegetarian you are... but watch out for soy protein. There's another thread about it here. It can increase estrogen or something like that in men and that's definately not going to help you if you're trying to get bigger.

[Spark]

Originally posted by IronFist


Nope. Remember, you won't get bigger without a caloric surplus, and it's difficult to get enough calories on a vegetarian diet.

Do you eat things like milk? I don't know how much of a vegetarian you are... but watch out for soy protein. There's another thread about it here. It can increase estrogen or something like that in men and that's definately not going to help you if you're trying to get bigger.

Bill Pearl didn't have a problem getting bigger.

[Spark]

Originally posted by inic
ok, being a dedicated nutritionist, why on earth are you a vegetarian. I don't want to get into a huge debate, but unlike most other "nutritionist", i actually like to test things and see for myself instead of doing "theoryist". Meat and animal fat, along with bone broths are THE most important nutrients you can get. I did the vegetarian diet for 5 months awhile ago. Personally I don't see why people use this type of diet. Don't you notice the huge energy loss?
And if you want to do this for "health" reasons, than go right ahead, just means more of the good stuff (meat) for me. BUT if you're doing this for "ethical" reasons, then you need a slap in the face. The same amount of animals die on a vegetable farm as a cattle farm.
Ok, that's all i'm gonna say.
I hate arguing on this subject, especially since most veget'rs I know are not open minded and just see their way as the only logical way. At least I'm open minded and always willing to try new ways.
And lay off the soy.

Dude, wtf is your problem and why do you give a $hit what my diet is? Wow you were vegetarian for a whole 5 months. Hey I smoked cigarettes for 5 months and didn't get cancer, emphysema or a voice box, so I guess I'm now an expert on carcinogens and can go around message boards talking $hit and making smart a$$ comments to anyone who says smoking is bad!! Wow what logic!
Oh and guess what, I wasn't born a vegetarian - I ate meat for 20 years and made a concious choice to switch, why is that so shocking?
I think it's kinda funny that all I said was "Bill Pearl" and you practically $hat yourself. Must be all that testosterone!!

[ElPietro]

Make sure you get your protein from a variety of sources. Combine foods as much as possible, as most vegetable proteins are incomplete, and will lack some essential amino acids. So by combining different veggie protein sources you can get a complete source of protein. I think it is difficult to bulk with a purely vegetarian diet, simply from the lack of calorie dense foods. But I guess you can add a lot of olive oil and stuff like that. Although, fish oil probably has the best omega fatty acid profile of any type of oil out there.

[Spark]

A former Mr. Universe

[zen_celt]

Ironfist- I realize to bulk I need to take in more calories than I expend and lift weights to make that bulk muscle. As Spark pointed out, Bill Pearl was able to do it. I realize it will be a lot more difficult, but I think it's still doable, just trying to find the best way how. It's a matter of calories and protein. Calories=food quantity(doable) Quality protein from veggies?-that's where I need the help.
I'm not looking to be a Bill Pearl, but I would like to add roughly 25-35 lbs of solid muscle. Not sure I can do it with what I have, but I'll try. I also wonder how the vegetarian monks eat and stay so big...???

Inic- I'm not Vegan, I'm a vegetarian. I still eat milk, cheese, eggs, etc. Just not beef, chicken, fish, pork or other animal flesh. My reasons are somewhat moral but I don't feel I'm better than anyone else or anyone else is wrong. It's just what I feel is right for me. If you want we can go into it further (I'm not a psycho "everyone who eats animals should be eaten themselves nazi") but I don't feel like eating flesh right now. I still get cravings now and then because it's still a recent change( I did it for 6 mos a few years ago but didn't stick to it-back then it was a "health" thing). As far as energy loss, no I actually feel like I have more energy and feel better. I've also lost a bunch of bodyfat and am more ripped but I still want to bulk...we'll see...suggestions?

As far as soy, what's wrong with it? I've been eating soy beans and drinking soy milk for years. I thought it was a great protein, especially for vegetarians(tofu can be yummy when done right).

So, back to the original question...suggestions on bulking as a vegetarian(not a vegan)
-ZC

[Spark]

Originally posted by inic
i use the term vegetarian and vegan the same way. Same thing to me really.
ok, You eat eggs but not chicken.... that makes no sense to me, i'm sorry. That's like me saying i don't eat steak, but i eat veal...
anyhoo, do whatever floats your boat. and I urge you to do some research on soy, you'll be surprised what you learn.

And like i said before, doing this for moral reasons i think is rather absurd. Do you know how many animals are killed/die on a vegetable farm? It may not be the same amount as a cattle farm, but it isn't far off.
And I know cause i lived on a farm for 5 years as a kid.

Well for starters, A baby calf is a live concious being, while an egg is not. I think most vegetarians moral reasons are something to do with killing animals so we can eat them.
I've researched soy and found that you basically have two opposite views and who is right, I don't think I'm one to say.

With that whole vegetable farm comment, I think I know what you're getting at - that being the amount of animals (mice, gophers, rabbits) that die because of tractors etc ... and I think this notion is rather absurd. If you hold this up as a reason why someone can't have a moral reason for being vegetarian, then I guess you would argue that vegetarians also can't live in houses or walk down the street or ride in a car, because technically an animal has died in all of these instances and I think you would agree that is quite ridiculous. Unless you expect all vegetarians to live in grass huts in the woods.

[Spark]

http://www.billpearl.com/career.asp

This guy got pretty big with no meat wouldn't you say?

http://ksteveh.tripod.com/pearl.html

[inic]

Originally posted by Spark
http://www.billpearl.com/career.asp

This guy got pretty big with no meat wouldn't you say?

When will people learn that size has NOTHING to do with internal health!

Just like all these ignorant girls that say to me "I'm healthy! i'm only 110 lbs!"

I just walk away, it's like arguing with a wall.... or a spark

[Spark]

Originally posted by inic
sigh. No matter what i say, you're just gonna come back with something to disagree with. anyhoo, either way, animals are being killed by humans. I don't know what you're trying to argue with on there.

Well yeah ... because I don't believe what you're saying ... so obviously i'm going to disagree with it :confused:
Um well, in one instance animals are being killed so you can eat them, another they are not. Is it that hard to understand that some people don't want to EAT an animal, and that's it?

[inic]

and how is an egg not an animal? am i missing something here?
unless you get them processed ones. But i get mine fertile from free running chickens.
And eat my eggs raw btw.
Eating lots of cooked eggs will eventually lead to allergies

[Spark]

Originally posted by inic


When will people learn that size has NOTHING to do with internal health!



oh, forget to give suggestions... bulking with no meat, haha, talk about oxymoron, but anyhoo

Are you dizzy yet?

[Spark]

Originally posted by inic
and how is an egg not an animal? am i missing something here?


It seems so.

[Spark]

an egg is a simple cell

[IronFist]

lol @ this thread :D

[zen_celt]

Inic- how does the comment, "Size has nothing to do with internal health" bear on this conversation? I am honestly curious. Do you think being a vegetarian is nutritionally bad? If so, why? I'm not trying to start arguments or debate philosophy just get some tips and info. Thanks.
-ZC

[IronFist]

Originally posted by inic
hmmm, shouldn't you be trying on shoes there big guy?:p

hows the girl? still running?

I already got my shoes :p

Yeah she's still running. Circles around me. Haha she'll tell me she ran like 5 miles and I'll be like "****!" and she'll be like "what? That was just my warmup :D"

[Spark]

Originally posted by inic
So you won't eat quail, duck, chicken, fish, fowl, but you'll eat quail eggs, turtle eggs, duck eggs, fish eggs?

I guess my simple, low IQ mind will never understand that! I guess i'll just giddy on up outta here, ahheeyaaak

No, I don't eat eggs at all.

But I don't believe that by eating an egg that doesn't make you vegetarian. Here's something that might clear this up for you inic. People (I find) who are vegetarian, are usually so only in the sense of their diet - that being they choose not to consume the flesh from a live animal. That is it.

I've never said anything about your mind or IQ, so I don't know where that's coming from ...

[Mr Punch]

Zen Celt
I don't think you'll find calories a problem if you eat little and often same as anyone training should. The main problem will be protein to rebuild your damaged muscle fibre afterwards. Compare the amounts of protein you get from meat or fish to that in vegetable products (btw this is no exact science anyway, as it's all based on dry-burnt weight which is not necessarily pure protein but you'll get the idea)... it's not impossible: it is difficult and boring.

Lots of raw eggs, lots more raw egg whites, and if you're still eating cheese that's a good one with bread (or pref toast as it's easier to digest) for combining the essential amino acids for easy absorption, though if you're serious, watch out for the rennet source. In the UK 90% is vegetable simply because it's cheaper and easier to supply and produce, but I don't know about the US.

Oh, and if you could pick off some slow moving cabbage-like matter like inic, you'd be doing us all a favour, and I'm sure he's packed with protein...:eek: :D

[zen_celt]

What's "rennet"?
-ZC

[Mr Punch]

Rennet is here (http://dictionary.reference.com/search?q=rennet) .

Some disheartening information is here (http://www.ivu.org/faq/eggsdairy.html) .

A straighter scientific source is here (http://www.vegsoc.org/info/cheese.html) .

The GM rennet mentioned in the last one is what I had discovered to be a lot more common than the actual cattle-based one in my days studying genetics.

Anyway, good luck!

Don't forget, you're gonna have to draw a line somewhere: if you're really serious about vegetarianism for all lickle bunnies' souls, the only way is strict veganism; if you're serious about it because of opposition to stoopid farming techniques, it's easier, but I'd recommend practising letter-writing and constantly asking questions of the FDA, and the various other quangos and shady NGOs in the wings of the agriculture department; if you just want to satisfy yourself you are doing what you can to be relatively humane under the circumstances you will not be completely avoiding products that damage the lives of some animal, some part of the environment, or someone, but that shouldn't stop you!

Just don't preach it, and don't have some omnivorous **** tell you 'Haah hah, your shoes are leather'... you will almost invariably be better informed than he, and therefore you'll live longer and healthier.

[Mr Punch]

Originally posted by inic
Meeting a ton of japanese people here, but well.... most (mainly teh girls) tend to be a little too passive or stuck up for my taste.Yeah, if I was gonna go with any tendency kind of thing, that would come close. Won't tell you the tendencies of the Yanks I meet over here tho! :p ... or the Brits :( !

:D


And what's with so many of them trying to be all ghetto? Dunno. Everybody thinks they are silly. Even passive, say-nothing sheeple laugh at thm! The good news is, if someone comes up to me with their jeans around their knees, I know they ain't gonna gimme any trouble!

Mind you theres never any trouble here anyway... boring really, would go fight some US navy but they're too fat and take too many drugs to be any competition... now where are those Marines Corp...?!:D