Ultimate Swordsmanship Thread

[SevenStar]

fencing, chinese swordsmanship, japanese... which have you done, which do you like best and why?

[yenhoi]

Got me, I play with sticks and dull knives.

Ive never met a person that studies chinese sword, save the randoms at the local McKwoon and their flimsey flashy sword forms.

I have played sticks with some JuJitsu folks around here: fast, strong, hard hitting - they sparr nearly full contact with big fake bamboo swords. They seem to be limited in close range, and dont fight well at all once they lose their weapon. They also wore some wooden armor that limited my attacks with a stick, but I was able to fight close range and attack with pokes and smashes pretty well.

None of the SCA guys that are willing to touch hands have had a complete game. One of them seems to have some sort of training with the weapon, but once he looses it he is meat against another weapon or empty handed.

:confused:

[joedoe]

I have only done European fencing, and that only for a year or so. I enjoyed it and am considering picking it up again, just not with the same maestro.

[Tiger_Yin]

Ima Nidan in Kendo and i paddle around in Kenjutsu. Good and fast but not trained agaitns most arts out of japan really. But lovely to do and see :D. I train with the dao altho never used it on someone.. i should try it someday ^_^

[neit]

i am learning kendo. lots of fun. i like knife fighting too.

[Mr Punch]

Used to practise a fairly generic kenjutsu, bit of a mishmash, but based on Yagyu. Loved it. Practised a lot, private/semi-private sessions, lots of two person drills, and sparring with shinai and bokuto. Also incorporated some jojutsu and jujutsu/aiki drills.

My aiki school was very big on swordwork, with a couple of mid/high-ranking kendoka and iaidoka taking classes. It also has a heavy aiki bokuto practice emphasis: tachi awase, two-person kata, a traditional yagyu kata, and a bokuto vs bo kata, plus of course sword taking drills. For added reality we had a police riot instructor, and a couple of doormen teaching short baton techs, side-handle batons techs, baseball bat and disarms from relatively realistic knife attacks.

Also practised kendo, with its two person kata, and lots of fighting.

Loved it all. Haven't had a chance to practise fencing but would like to try, and have never seen good Chinese stuff face-to-face, but have messed with the WC baat jam do a few times... so not really qualified to compare/contrast.

[taijiquan_student]

I practice Chinese swordsmanship. To be more specific, Yang family sword (jian). Anybody here on the board who does sword stuff live in Philly? My teacher is doing a swordplay workshop there at the end of March. It should be good. All two person drills and free swordplay, no form stuff.

[count]

Originally posted by taijiquan_student
I practice Chinese swordsmanship. To be more specific, Yang family sword (jian). Anybody here on the board who does sword stuff live in Philly? My teacher is doing a swordplay workshop there at the end of March. It should be good. All two person drills and free swordplay, no form stuff.Wish I was near Philly for that TJQS, I am a fan of your teachers sword and I love the Jian, amoung others. Does Scott have a set format of basics that help transition from drill to free spar? What's his basic theory of attack and defense?

[SevenStar]

for those who remember, I was thinking about checking out the local SCA for some fencing lessons. Well, there's also an awesome kendo /iado teacher is here - he's a 5th dan in muso shinden ryu battou jutsu. He trained in Japan in those two arts and judo while he was in the military. His place would be the better bet. classes are only once a week, and miraculously doesn't clash with my training schedule. I may go check it out.

[apoweyn]

As you already know, my sword experience is limited to whatever crossover a person can claim from stick to sword in eskrima. And more recently fencing.

While I'm enjoying the hell out of fencing, if you're looking to study some swordplay for easy integration into your existing workout (say you want to address the possibility of an attacker with a machete), you may want to go the SCA route. Not because they're more technically savvy. Far from it. But just because competitive fencing has a progression and technical expectations. The question is whether you're willing to go into them to get to an answer to your question.

Saber is the most applicable (to my mind) to a machete (or other "likely" street weapon). But a new fencer can expect to spend a great deal of time on foil (and perhaps epee) before they ever lay their hands on a saber.

So I guess it's a question of where your priorities lay.

I've got no experience with kendo, kenjutsu, or CMA swordplay.


Stuart B.

[taijiquan_student]

Count--People learn the basic cuts first. There are 8 of them in the Michuan system. You practice those over and over again, in addition to learning the form. In terms of progressing from drills to free swordplay, you general start off with 2 person drills focussing on one or more basic cuts, and then gradually increase speed and power, and increase the freedom and aliveness of the situation. Then you start free swordplay (which again, you can start off slowly and work up to full speed).

I hesitate to represent Scott's sword method on the net for him, so as far as his basic theory of attack and defense, I'm not really sure what he would say to answer that question (you can, of course, ask him on the Sword Forum). I just try and think "deflect and cut". If a sword (in practice a 1.5-2lb. oak sword) is coming at me I try and deflect according to the situation and immediately cut. I'm a relative beginner in sword. As I practice more I find it's not that difficult to merely deflect the duifong's (the other person's) blade, but it's difficult to deflect it and immediately circle back around to cut, thrust, etc., especially to do so without getting cut myself in the process (unless I'm going with Scott, in which case I usually can't even deflect). I'm really looking forward to the Philly training, as I'm getting quite interested in sword-work.

[neit]

i would very much like to take private lessons for dao after i am finished school. i imagine that most kung fu teachers could give you a pretty good foundation to work with. i nolonger practise kung fu other than arm swinging excercises, but i loved the dao stuff i was taught.

[Samurai Jack]

Sevenstar, who's the muso shinden ryu guy you know of? Where is he located? I practice the same, and aikido boken in Eugene with Thoms Sensei. Chiba Sensei's our shihan down at the San Diego Aikikai. I recommend it highly if it's through Chiba's lineage, although a once a week class is really not enough. :(

[SevenStar]

TN. his name is harry dach. I agree about once a week not being enough, but it would mainly be a hobby for me, as I am in MT twice a week, judo 3 times a week and bjj almost every day... I would definitely add it to my solo training though, so I would have more than once a week, technically.

[Gangsterfist]

some people I train with know wudang sword and yang taiji sword. I have not learned any chinese sword play, but in my karate days I did get to learn some basic kendo and other japanese sword techniques. They were mostly for training but could be applicable in a real sword fight.

From what I have observed chinese sword has more circular techniques and japanese sword has more linear techniques. I have not seen a great deal however.

[stimulant]

I do chinese sword play :-

Qing Ping Jian (green duckweed straight sword)

Dou (broad sword)

[Kempo Guy]

I do Japanese swordmanship. Since our system is a Sogo Bujutsu (a "complete" system) , in addition to the Kenjutsu and Iai/Batto -jutsu we are taught how to use the tanto, wakizashi (short sword) and the naginata (glaive) for bladed weaponry. All of these weapons are based on the same principles of movement / operating system (including the jujutsu we practice).


From what I have observed chinese sword has more circular techniques and japanese sword has more linear techniques. I have not seen a great deal however.

This may generally be the case as they are dealing with economy of movement. But some Kenjutsu ryuha (ours included) use more circular cuts and movements.

KG

[SevenStar]

technically, it's two days - one day is battou and one day is kendo. If I do do it though, I'll likely only train in kendo for now.

[fiercest tiger]

I have been training in kumdo, korean sword and its similar to japanese kendo.

I am really enjoying it as well its completely different to chinese sword work i think!


FT

[Stranger]

I have done a little of Russian swordwork. I would love to have more training sessions.

[SevenStar]

interesting. What's it like?

[Stranger]

I've seen video of Russian sword work from a variety of Russian styles. The approach seems to differ from one style to another, so describing a common approach is hard.

In our school a great deal of time was spent on developing edge/point orientation. The way it was introduced to me was with the statement that many sword methods, particularly those that frown on training with an actual blade, tend to swing the weapon all chaotic. The opponent is as likely to get swatted with the flat side of the blade as slashed. Padded weapons and round shinai don't demand contact with the edge and could lead to bad habits. My knowledge on this subject is not what I'd like it to be, so I am repeating what was suggested to me.

Flow, as in all unarmed and armed sequences at our school, was stressed.