ATTN: Merry P

[Ray Pina]

I'm curious, are there any grappling tournaments where you start kneeling facing each other, or even from the mount, that allows striking?

The thing is, I want to go out and play a little with these guys but I'm more of a get position and beat then a get position and submit guy ... at least at this time.

When I play, I've been able to keep from getting submitted (of course not always), break free, and tap the guy to let him know that was a hit and then regain my structure. Or use light knees to show I can be hitting. But without bringing those hits home I can't go on forever and will eventually conk out.

Any suggestions?

[Ford Prefect]

Never seen anything like that. Why not just try MMA?

[Ray Pina]

I play with some BJJ guys who train in Manhattan and Queens from time to time. My teacher has shown me how using our same stand up principles about maintaining structure, keeping our door closed, opening the other's door and then hitting works on the ground.

Example, when getting that popular leg sciccor arm bar put on me to roll into it to keep this kind of shape: || ... elbows down and in, ect.

Or when they extent to force something because I'm in that same shape, to get to their outside gate and turn them a bit. Now they would apply some lock. I like to keep the shape, press with the left elbow, forcing it up a bit to shield, and attack the soft belly. He'll probably fight it down. So then strike the bicep with the same elbow that was lifting but now try to pin it down (just like in chi sau or sticking hands) for a face strike. If it does enough to get out, then I'll roll over and start pounding. If not, return to my guard position.

Again, this is the theory and I'm working it. I'm having success but want to broaden the test.

As for MMA, I do want to compete against it. I'm focusing on San Da now. Some of these guys look tough. My fight was canceled so I have no input or feedback. I'm trying again April 2.

I know these guys can throw. My thing is not to be thrown. Want to see how I do. Then I'll see about OK, I've been thrown or I slipped, how do I match with ground experts. Little by little.

[truewrestler]

I had a response ready to post earlier but the boss suprised me and I closed the window quickly without copying :(

In most grappling tournaments you can win on points by dominating position. You start standing, no strikes. There are some sets of rules that stress submission by having no points and if no one is submitted by the end then the most aggressive competitor (especially for submissions) will get the win.

It sounds like what you are talking about is more a drill or situational fighting than competition.

Naga Judging Criteria: http://www.nagafighter.com/Judgingcriteria1.htm

BJJ Rules: http://bjj.org/tournaments/rules.html

[Merryprankster]

EF,

Honestly? Go to an MMA gym that is heavily grappling centric and ask to spar with one of their guys. Be nice.

Tapping somebody to demonstrate you could have hit them doesn't do a **** bit of good because it doesn't tell you anything about how well you are doing. It's a giant 'what if' game. I was sparring with somebody, full contact and got punched in the face three times as I was working for, and eventually got, an armbar from the guard. Without that feedback, you get "well, I was hitting you in the face, so you would have given up on the armbar" type syndrome.

No. Better to go to somebody like Matt Serra's or Renzo's and ask to spar MMA style while emphasizing that you are not there to "challenge" anybody. You just want a friendly sparring experience with guys you know are the best around (buttering people up usually helps) :D.

[truewrestler]

MP has caught the correct in an armbar from guard after taking 3 punches to the face

:p

[Merryprankster]

Jeff once caught my arm underneath his leg (I'm NEVER going for the helicopter sweep again in an MMA situation) and beat the **** out of my face. Taking shots with your head pinned against the ground bites ass.

[Ray Pina]

I've been meaning to get around to doing that, just so much time in a day, week, month with my own training.

A few times I've tried this though with BJJ training partners of my friends. I suggest they at least wear headgear (I admit chest gear gets in the way too much and isn't necessary if "playing") and they say it's not neccasry. They'll go for a lock, I'll get out, put my palm on their head and pull it back. They go for another lock, I move around, find a whole, touch their chest, they come down, I pin them, touch their neck and pull back. Very few get it. Others will keep playing till they get me. If I'm feeling like a sour sport I'll ask them to lock and extend their arm. I'll place my palm on their arm and then issue power. They see from contact I can deliever, let's say, a decent blow. So how about with a a foot of closing distance added?

Then I ask again, want to put on some head gear? We never put it on and go back to playing, and they disregard the contact and its still fun.

One of my classmates goes to Gracie's gyme here in NY and also studies Judo. He's found away where I can't roll into those armbars, where he pins me on my back before leaning back and cranking. I don't know if its from my teacher of them. It's very good though. I suspect the Gracies have a way of training that they don't share with everyone -- maybe just at a certain level. But I guess that goes for any style. Because the way each guy "feels" is different.

And Hapkido guys are still different. With them I feel "technique" -- they know what they want to do -- but lack the technical power to bring it home.

It's all very interesting though and I see how an art devoted to this alone can spin off.

[Merryprankster]

I suspect the Gracies have a way of training that they don't share with everyone -- maybe just at a certain level.

Nah. There's really nothing special, IMO. Although some will disagree.

It sounds like you have straight sport BJJ friends. You need MMA guys who are willing to bang a little.

'Not getting it' is precisely the problem I'm outlining. They don't know, but YOU don't either. Boxing's easy, right? You just hit the other guy... I think you understand what I'm getting at...

[Pork Chop]

Jeff's a monster... anybody that's at least my height, more muscular, stronger, more powerful, better technique, comparable reach, has better speed, AND weighs LESS is scarey...