Spine and head aligment

[Phenix]

While doing SLT, how do you align you head and spine with your YJKYM and hand movements....

care to discuss?

[kj]

We have 5 major checkpoints to help establish a frame of reference:


Kim Sut (knees in; any squeeze is just a "touch" to maintain alignment)
Lok Ma (sink/settle lowered in the stance)
Ting Yu (pelvis rolled under, e.g., pelvic tilt1, elongating the lumbar spine)
Dung Tau (head up from center, elongating cervical spine)
Mai Jahng (elbows down, commensurate with shoulders down, body settled.


Within this framework, the head and body align and balance over the legs with knees supporting. The torso and breathing settles, and one may have a sensation of "sitting." One may also have the feeling of being simultaneously pulled into the earth (below as if through the perineum) and up to the heavens (above, through the crown of the head), further aligning the body and elongating the spine, always settled and supple, never "stiff."

A relationship is maintained at all times between the knees, knees and elbows, and algo through the pelvis, waist and shoulders, which combined with the "settledness" affords what we commonly refer to as "body unity."

YMMV.

Regards,
- kj

[wingchunner]

Originally posted by kj
We have 5 major checkpoints to help establish a frame of reference:


Lok Ma (sink/settle lowered in the stance)
Ting Yu (pelvis rolled under, e.g., pelvic tilt1, elongating the lumbar spine)
Dung Tau (head up from center, elongating cervical spine)
Mai Jahng (elbows down, commensurate with shoulders down, body settled.


Within this framework, the head and body align and balance over the legs with knees supporting. The torso and breathing settles, and one may have a sensation of "sitting." One may also have the feeling of being simultaneously pulled into the earth (below as if through the perineum) and up to the heavens (above, through the crown of the head), further aligning the body and elongating the spine, always settled and supple, never "stiff."

A relationship is maintained at all times between the knees, knees and elbows, and algo through the pelvis, waist and shoulders, which combined with the "settledness" affords what we commonly refer to as "body unity".

Isn't interesting that these are characteristics found commonly in the internal martial arts as well?

Marty

[Jim Roselando]

Hello,


Isn't interesting that these are characteristics found commonly in the internal martial arts as well?


Yes and since WC is soft internal it makes a lot of sense. Good stuff KJ.

The Mai Jarn thing is a bit different from ours. We state (Chum Jarn) and then Mai Jarn is the inward pulling of the elbows but not listed with those. Then with the Chum Jarn we also list Lok Bot.


With regards to the head position I would only add that not only does it suspend but it has a slight pulling back to it. Kind of like someone was pulling your ears back a pinch. Plus, the head should not tilt forward nor backward.


Out of time!


See ya,

[PaulH]

Thanks, Cathy and Jim. Very helpful posts especially that elongated spine discussion. I wonder if this method is just to let you catch that feeling or sensation of good balance. As you move about with lively different body positions, perhaps you should rely more on your mental tuning to return to that first love!

Regards,
PH

[kj]

Originally posted by Jim Roselando
The Mai Jarn thing is a bit different from ours. We state (Chum Jarn) and then Mai Jarn is the inward pulling of the elbows but not listed with those. Then with the Chum Jarn we also list Lok Bot.

Although our mnemonic doesn't include chum jahng specifically, it is indeed implied and expected also. So again, consistency in practice.

Lok I got, but what is the "bot" do you refer to here? The agonies of romanization ...

Regards,
- kj

[dfl]

Originally posted by kj


Lok I got, but what is the "bot" do you refer to here? The agonies of romanization ...



shoulders

[kj]

Originally posted by dfl
shoulders

Thanks!!

I like "lok bot" too then. :)

Regards,
- kj

[Gangsterfist]

Well KJ pretty much summed it up. I was taught basically the same thing. We also use the golden thread metaphor when maintaining structure and stance and aligning the body. Once your structure is aligned from the ground up your head should be cetnered as if there is a string in the middle of your head and someone has pulled it up (kinda likea puppet). However do not force your neck higher than it is normally relaxed. This may also be because my sifu now teaches us yang taiji once to twice a week along with WC. Some of my alignment from taiji and WC is blended in what my sifu teaches us.

[Jim Roselando]

Hey Kathy!



I forgot to include Sow Hung!


Typically:


Dung Tao, Lok Bot, Sow Hung, Chum Jarn, Ting Yiu, Kim Sut


This is the basic body for Leung Jan teaching in Koo Lo. Then you add in Grip Toes, Clinch Teeth, Tounge On Roof, Lift Anus!


Regards,

[kj]

Originally posted by Jim Roselando
I forgot to include Sow Hung!


Typically:


Dung Tao, Lok Bot, Sow Hung, Chum Jarn, Ting Yiu, Kim Sut


This is the basic body for Leung Jan teaching in Koo Lo. Then you add in Grip Toes, Clinch Teeth, Tounge On Roof, Lift Anus!


Thanks, Jim. We may slightly differ on this edge of things. However, while these elements are not part of our constant and traditional teaching, they are discussed from time to time.

Here are some slight nuances in our way of practice, as I interpret things (always a caveat):


We don't "grip toes," but we do allow the foot to act as if "suction cupped" to the floor.
We don't "clench" the teeth, but we do keep them lightly touching together.
Tongue to the roof of the mouth (e.g., to complete a "circuit") is not required. By the same token, tongue to the roof of the mouth is not discouraged either. Pragmatically, it is one good way for learners to ingrain the habit of keeping their tongue in!
Lifting the anus is mentioned, but again not required. (Rumor has it that Ken used to tell the guys this was the one element of posture and alignment he would not verify and correct for them. LOL.)


So while we don't hold these as fast standards, neither do I presume we are miles apart on them. It may also be that semantics and connotations may contribute to a sense of differences wider than actually exist on these finer details. Tomorrow I may understand things differently.

Regards,
- kj

[Jim Roselando]

Hey KJ,


We don't "grip toes," but we do allow the foot to act as if "suction cupped" to the floor.

Understood. For what its worth its not so much a hard grip but a slight grabbing action. Their is an internal property that comes along with the "grip". Try standing in YJKYM with and without.

We don't "clench" the teeth, but we do keep them lightly touching together.

Same here. Clench is the term but if we really clenched then there would be tension. A big no no. Other than protecting your jaw what good is teeth clenching for in your opinion?

Tongue to the roof of the mouth (e.g., to complete a "circuit") is not required. By the same token, tongue to the roof of the mouth is not discouraged either. Pragmatically, it is one good way for learners to ingrain the habit of keeping their tongue in!

Lifting the anus is mentioned, but again not required. (Rumor has it that Ken used to tell the guys this was the one element of posture and alignment he would not verify and correct for them. LOL.)

The last two are for unifying the bodies circulation/connections. Some do and some dont. Yet! Kens WC follows all the soft internal properties so you may want to try these with your practice and see what you feel.


I have to run!

[Shadowboxer]

I have learned the same principles for alignment KJ mentioned and hopefully her POV of my alignment corroborates this :) . We noticed/discussed slight differences in knee spacing and elbow positioning in SNT when my wu sau sets, then drops into fook sau. I've been taught the string/puppet image for correct posture as well. I also try to grip the ground ala the "suction cupped" description KJ mentioned. I would add that I try to always be aware of the Six Harmonies especially when doing SNT. Anybody else think of maintaining alignment in this manner? How would you describe the harmonies?