Wushu [Archive] - Kung Fu Magazine Forums

Sho

02-09-2004, 02:58 PM

I believe that wushu is an excellent art for developing one's foundations for further training. Wushu practitioners, as I've seen it, have extremely good form (better than most traditional players according to my own observations, even though their power generation might not be correct) and that's an integral part of martial arts training, because proper form leads to good power generation on the longer run, regarding that the student receives appropriate instruction. They are also capable of adapting to many different styles (of kung fu), because already modern wushu itself is a very diverse system containing a multitude of different styles and forms being strenuous and physically very demanding. Wushu requires its students to be precise on their movements, so they become perfectionists in a sense, because they are constantly required to practice every move with maximal correctness (precision and gracefulness being their priority).

Brad

02-09-2004, 03:22 PM

Or should that be looking good while getting beat?
As opposed to traditionalists, who look like s#it while getting beat ;)

Judge Pen

02-09-2004, 03:26 PM

Originally posted by Brad

As opposed to traditionalists, who look like s#it while getting beat ;)

:D I resemble that remark.

norther practitioner

02-09-2004, 04:58 PM

It is good for athletisism, flexibility, etc.. but if you want to get into fighting... look elsewhere.

wushu chik

02-16-2004, 04:39 PM

Originally posted by Tiger_Yin
Omg wendy :O HAHAHAHAHAHAHAhahahaahahah.... didnt know you still hung around here :D probly forgot how we used to b!tch at each other on the volcano chat thingy a year or two ago heheh.. memories...

I do Wushu, I have my own lil school in town here. Like anything, its what you make of it. If you want to learn to fly like crouching tiger.. well sure go for it :rolleyes: Its a great workout.. noone survives my classes so far :D The technique is awesome and the coordination it develops if hardly beateable.

All depends on what you want out of it.. some say its useless to fight with.. i say BS to that :p anyways go try it out.. one thing tho.. its not good for you at all hehe kills your body :D

Hi Tiger Yin,
You know, you should come and chat with us still!! We're all still there..... you can find us at the Fu-Ragz Chatroom! (http://www.team-fu.com/phpchat). There's a ton of us that are there nightly. While I'm not there all the time, Chris M, Shooter, Brassmonkey, Illusionfist, etc are all there.

Hope to see you there (always miss a good argument ;))

~Wen~

SPJ

10-16-2004, 10:55 PM

If somebody is interested in learning Wushu/gym, how does he or she start?

:confused:

SevenStar

10-16-2004, 10:59 PM

by doing research and finding a reputable teacher, I'd imagine.

Jason Martell

07-30-2005, 01:15 AM

Can anybody give me any sparring video clips pretty please with sugar on top? Also does Wushu sparring look flashy?

gfx

07-30-2005, 08:33 AM

define what you call "wushu".
If it's contemporary performance "wushu", there is no sparring.
And no, those two men forms are not sparring.

bigdoing

07-30-2005, 09:51 AM

Jason,

Wushu sparring, eagle claw w/ tkd, tkd w/ mantis.....You have to join job core to find a place with human beings to train, you must live on mars and read a lot of comic books...You have the internet so do a google search and you will find plenty of clips that compare all the styles you want...Maybe you should try BALLET and TAI BO

Jason Martell

07-30-2005, 03:19 PM

NO when I said I was joning job core, that's to get a career to do something with my life, the thing is you have to live on the school campus, there is one in every state, and I'm trying to choose one based on nearbyness to a martial arts school I want to study at.

rogue

07-30-2005, 03:38 PM

It's better to pick one that will get you the best job.

nickV

05-20-2006, 06:51 PM

hi,is wushu a type kung fu style or does it just mean chinese martial arts like another name for kung fu??

SPJ

05-20-2006, 07:11 PM

Wushu means fighting techniques and skills.

Wu Yi means the arts of fighting, physics, anatomy, etc

Wu Xue is the study of fighting or everything about fighting

Wu Xue= Wu shu + wu Yi+---

Wu De means ethics about fighting.

Bin is military or war affairs.

Bin Shu. Bin Xue etc etc.

:D

David Jamieson

05-22-2006, 07:29 AM

spj, i believe he may be now even more confused.

It is not always best to point a firehose at a teacup. :D

nickV

05-22-2006, 07:31 AM

yeah,i am lol.i still dont really know if wushu is a style of kung fu or another name for kung fu/chinese martial arts??

SPJ

05-22-2006, 07:38 AM

OOPs.

:D

David Jamieson

05-22-2006, 07:53 AM

wushu is not a specific style. It simply transliterates as wu/martial shu/arts

kungfu is also a touch of a misnomer as well. Kungfu is not a specific style, but rather it is a blanket term for chinese martial arts in general.

specific styles have specific names.

the term wushu is usually associated with contemporary iterations of martial arts modified for performance purposes as in displays of forms.

the term kungfu can actually be applied to anything. It essentially refers to time and effort. The more time and effort you put into something, the better you will be at it, hence a person 'has' kungfu as opposed to 'does' kungfu.

so, I like to use the examples of Ernest Hemingway had kungfu in writing or Julia Childs has Kungfu in cooking and so on.

so, one can have Kungfu in their wushu as well.

If you click the Kungfu magazine.com link at the top and check out some of the info such as "what is kungfu" and how to pick a school and so on, you will likely get a better understanding. I think there is even a glossary of terms that will be helpful as well.

spj's info is good, but I think because of the depth of his own understanding it's hard for him to not hand out meat when he should be feeding with milk. :D

BruceSteveRoy

05-22-2006, 07:57 AM

Wushu is a generic term for martial arts. However, in the US (i don't know about everywhere) it is synonymous with the flashy modern version of the chinese martial arts. Before it was called wuyi and before that it was called chuan fa. All of these terms mean one thing. Chinese martial arts as a general concept. If you are talking about a specific type of CMA just call it by its name like tonglong chuan, chang quan, choy lee fut (or however its spelled), wing chun (or however that is spelled too), hung gar, etc. the term kung fu is used a lot in america but not so much in China. They call all kung fu wushu. hope that helps.

Shaolinlueb

05-22-2006, 08:07 AM

all kung fu is wushu.

people like to seperate it into modern wushu and traditional wushu. because people do that.

SPJ

05-22-2006, 10:00 AM

Modern wushu may mean new composite routines or competition routines.

Traditional wushu may mean old or original routines.

for example, tai chi composite 24, 48 forms, chen tai chi competition 48 forms etc.

are modern ones.

Chen Tai Chi old frame or new frames old routines will be traditional wushu forms that are not modified or shortened.

--

nickV

05-22-2006, 10:05 AM

thanks,now i know.

Ray Pina

05-22-2006, 10:24 AM

Let's be honest, Wushu doesn't mean those things anymore than "gay" means to be happy. The meaning has changed.

Wushu means the gymnastification of martial arts into flowery form. For example, backflips and tornado kicks have been added to the taiji form for the next olympics.

This is not Taiji. Taiji is the pursuit of integrating the whole body, so every part contributes to striking -- from heal to finger tip. It's also a style based on principles of non-resistance, or better yet, giving the attacker what they want but in a way they don't expect so as to take advantage of them. This principle, if internalized, will balance out the odds for the old fighting the young.

How many people in their mid-40's can do a back hand spring or tornado kick.

Chinese martial arts is getting ruined with this crap.

MasterKiller

05-22-2006, 10:40 AM

How many people in their mid-40's can do a back hand spring or tornado kick.

My teacher could do tornado kicks (jump inside crescent kick) at 65.

It's a 100% traditional technique, anyways.

BruceSteveRoy

05-22-2006, 10:43 AM

ray pina hit the nail on the head.

Ray Pina

05-22-2006, 12:13 PM

My teacher could do tornado kicks (jump inside crescent kick) at 65.

It's a 100% traditional technique, anyways.

You missed the point. Maybe your teacher is acceptional.

Tornado kicks and back flips have no part in traditional taiji, I would go so far as to argue they have no place in traditional form (though I think there was a tornado kick in my Lau Gar form) and even further that traditionally there was no form as we know it today .... most likely form was a cannon of mechanic drills to be practices alone, in line with Hsing-I walk training.

But I'll go even further and detest the word traditional all together. I see so many videos of "traditionalists" doing form .... they all suck! Where is the good stuff? Where is the power?

On one hand you have guys doing "traditional," and to me its an antique.

Then you have guys doing this gymnastics and calling it traditional.

Don't mean to rant, I just find this whole thing blasp****us, turning meaningful skills into flowery nonsense. I can't consider myself a martial artists anymore.

Shaolinlueb

05-22-2006, 12:18 PM

um if you look into some of the traditional styles like monkey and eagle claw, there are backflips and such in thier forms.

its obviously shown more in modern wushu forms, but it does exist in the traditional stuff too. to say it doesnt is wrong.

*edit
but yet i see your point when there are people who "throw" those moves into the forms and they dont belong there. and as for flips in taiji i dont know about that. tornado kicks are in a lot of forms. can be seen a lot in the 10 sets of northern shaolin.

David Jamieson

05-22-2006, 12:23 PM

bei shaolin a.k.a bak sil lum has fairly acrobatic kicks throughout the entire series of forms for the most part. This is considered a very traditional style.

Cha Chuan is very much the same way and is regarded as a well from which a lot of modern wushu has been drawn from.

Not to mention, while one may see a little intent in a form demonstration, it is difficult to 'see' power. That's something one feels when it applied to them in context...such as getting hit. :p

form is to kungfu as hammer and nail is to finished house.

PangQuan

05-22-2006, 12:35 PM

imo, when speaking of traditional chinese martial arts. it is traditional to be able to do arial techniques, flips, drops and such.

these types of maneuvers are not the focus of such practitioners but they are part of the package.

once you learn to do a backflip, as long as your in shape still, you will always be able to do it. it doesnt take much time from training to learn and drill this skill.

the filps, jumps, arials, drop kicks, etc. are part of a lot of very old cma. they are something that a classically trained (depending style of course) chinese martial artist would be capable of performing if needed.

many styles will slowly incorporate more acrobatic movements in thier sets as you progress in the art.

granted it is up to the discretion of the artist as to where to put said techniques. some places they just do not belong.

mantis108

05-22-2006, 12:40 PM

Modern Wushu is a sport that is a wannabe clone of Traditional Wushu (martial arts). One can say that Kung Fu is at the core of Wushu but not all Wushu is Kung Fu.

People who took Modern Wushu (ie Jet Li, etc) in general have never had ANY traditional training in Chinese study (ie Confucianism, Daoism, etc..) and they never even bothered to learn about it. Their view in general represents the GRASS ROOT LEVEL [re: uneducated] of understanding of the term KUNG FU. This is why they say that farmer joe has kung fu, cook Jane Dough has kung fu, etc... This is also a slight to traditionally trained Chinese martial artists. It is more or less to say that you are a nobody which is what the Communist regime wanted everyone to think that way. Communist party certain don't want free thinking traditionalists to question them on the destruction that was brought on to the Chinese culture by the party.

I am sorry that people like Dr. YJM actually hold the same silly view and put that on his site. [BTW, DJ I don't think you would be amount them for you are much more smarter then that]

Anyway, Kung Fu as a phsyical education and combative art is the collective wisdom, knowledge, and intelligence of many devoted practitioners ranging from military officiers, scholars to members of secret societies. BTW, Sun Lutang is among one of my favorite practitioners. Kung Fu stands up to scrutiny from all classical studies. At the theoretical level, it is coherent with any Confucian material, Daoist cannon classic of change, internal classic of Yellow Emperor, and any military classic such as the Art of War by Sun Zi. In fact, in Northern Praying Mantis alone, there are manuscripts that have elements of plenty of Ming dynasty (1368 - 1644 CE) military manuscripts and to mention the classic of change. This means that principles that are employed in the dynastic military is also used in Mantis even in modern times. There is a distinct formula behind the methodology that Kung Fu systems follows. Kung Fu is a unique and extraordinary study far beyond the expression of the human body in combative form. Next time somebody wants to sell you modern Wushu the sport is the really deal, I would suggest you look around and think twice before jumping head in first.

Mantis108

MasterKiller

05-22-2006, 12:47 PM

Don't mean to rant, I just find this whole thing blasp****us, turning meaningful skills into flowery nonsense. I can't consider myself a martial artists anymore.

I know what you are getting at, but I don't think a torando kick is "as silly" as a backflip. I've used tornado kicks in my MMA class.

Shogun threw a tornado kick in a Pride fight last year.

An aerial, backflip, or butterfly kick in the traditional external divisions at Taiji legacy earns you an automatic DQ.

David Jamieson

05-22-2006, 12:56 PM

I see contemporary wushu for what it is. I don't see it as a viable method for developing applicable martial skills and certainly not as a method of spiritual development.

But then, I don't think spiritual development is in the equation anyway. While Buddhism and Taoism and other religio-philosophies are associated by proxy to traditional martial arts, the greater percentage of those that teach these martial arts do not include those teachings with any robustness whatsoever.

One would do better in a religious studies and philosophy course anyway, or just go to church if you want for your spiritual food, or whatever it is you do for that.

Too much taint is applied through martial arts to those types of study anyway due to pseudo understanding or misinterpretation or attempts at definitiveness of the meaning of someone else soul according to their understanding. Anyway, that's all part of the classical mess as it's been called. Not too mention, the nationalists have added as much political and philosophical taint to tcma practice as the communists have.

IMO, this is a matter of Chinese political positions that have brewed for ages. To the point where there are some who say that only the KMT believers practice real martial arts and Communist followers all practice contemporary dance that looks like martial art.

It should probably be known that neither end of the spectrum has the corner on the reality of it. What's in between covers the greatest mass.

I think the recent sympathy and face giving to contemporary wushu is also a political thing and is more of an attempt at bringing unity. Get in, then make change. This method has historically been proven to work. But you have to get in first.

Ray Pina

05-22-2006, 01:19 PM

Funny, when you want to see real power your don't look at the finished result, you look for clues.

For example, a karate-type reverse punch with the snap-crackle pop, the hung gar guy tensing his arms with rings, you see power but there's no power there.

You swing a baseball bat. What second has power? The whole thing is powerful, the weight of the bat dose the work and you swing with full body without tension.

The karate snap punch is like a bunt ..... if you see the tension in the arms, ala Hung Gar, that's where the power is, it's not going out.

Now, some say that's the way we train it. But why would you train swinging abat with tension and stop 3/4 and hold it, or pull it back, when in reality you need to swing through relaxed? Makes no sense.

Makes no sense to have back flips in your martial arts (period). If you can come up with a scenario (which I'm sure you can), there's better things you can spend training so you won't be put into that scenario.

I'm sorry if this offends, but form is not the nail and hammer of martial arts. I train zero form. I'd love to fight a guy who's training in based 100% on form. And not because I'd love to beat them, I'd love to fight him. Literally. Because he's nowhere to be found.

I feel most know this in their art, but if they're a teacher they'd have to come up with a meaningful curriculm real fast. And if you're a student, you have to face yourself in the mirror and realise you've been di(king around and actually have to get your hands dirty to be a warrior.

PangQuan

05-22-2006, 02:47 PM

a back flip will never be applicable in a fight. its rediculous.

the only argument i had is that in TCMA it IS traditional to be able to do this.

we all know there are things in TCMA that dont NEED to be there.

i am partial TCMA, there are things in my training that are very traditional, yet at the same time there are many things in my training that are very modern.

EVERYONE uses traditional methods (if even just one small tiny itty bitty thing), whether they are 100% traditional or not is what makes the difference. i know some people would love to argue that, but there are some things that modern practitioners do that just happen to have been done 1000 years ago as well.

David Jamieson

05-22-2006, 03:35 PM

ray-

kungfu training starts at form and is not 100% based on it. The method is a progressive model and it is a method that has been developed over a long period of time.

In fact, long forms are relatively new and are not the only method of learning. Even in Kungfu styles there are not alwasy long forms. Some are short with only one or two moves, more like a combo drill in boxing.

all martial training includes form in this sense. YOu must understand structure and how it is best optimized to deliver power. This is form whether it's one move or 200.

not so black and white at all.

go far enough into traditional training and the forms will go away. Because you don't need them, you move onto the next set of tools. But every beginner will get instruction in proper form whether that is about angle and structure and position of strength vs position of weakness or if it comes in the modality of set choreographed forms that are intended to instill the same thing through continued practice and correction.

the efficiency of forms is that you can practice many of the different shapes and get the proper idea of where it is most strong and where you need to make the change to make better your structure, power delivery, pand so on.

GLW

05-22-2006, 04:17 PM

“Tornado kicks and back flips have no part in traditional taiji,”

On this I would agree…. Even in Chen style there is no Xiao Feng Tui (Tornado kick).

“I would go so far as to argue they have no place in traditional form”

Back flips…I would say that they would be something played with but not in the lexicon of forms. Tornado kicks…a big part of northern. Cha quan (Cha, Hong, Pao, Hua quans ALL have Xioa Feng Tui in them. – done correctly they are fast and powerful.) Many broadsword routines (Traditional ones) from northern styles have a flourish followed by a tornado kick landing in Ma Bu.

“Then you have guys doing this gymnastics and calling it traditional.”

Unfortunately, this is all too often true…. But the cure is for judging to get better in competitions and for people to be a bit better informed in looking at schools and teachers.

“Not to mention, while one may see a little intent in a form demonstration, it is difficult to 'see' power.”

Not always. There are plenty of very quick moving techniques in northern styles like Cha quan that might have rapid fire punches or kicks. When you see no connection to the root and the arm flopping, you can be pretty sure there is also no power. Now, if there is SOME power, it can be very difficult if not impossible to gauge how much power is there unless you see an impact.

“An aerial, backflip, or butterfly kick in the traditional external divisions at Taiji legacy earns you an automatic DQ.”

Not exactly true. This depends upon the head judge. A backflip would probably get an incorrect division score. An aerial – probably. A butterfly kick – there ARE butterfly kicks in some old northern weapon sets. Now, a butterfly twist…nope.

In competition, you don’t really have to disqualify. You can just as easily score on the 10 point method as described and still come out with an accurate score. – 6 points on technique. 2 points on speed and power. 2 points on flavor, spirit, sense of enemy, etc…

So…if a person comes out and executes everything flawlessly…but has no power – well…they may get 6 out of 6 but they would only get 1 out of 2. Then, if they started doing aerials and such, well, no sense of enemy, wrong flavor (not traditional), incorrect spirit…so they might get 0.5 out of 2. Add it up and that flash got a score of 6 + 1 + .5 – in an advanced division : 7.5 total
In advanced division, 8.0 is about the lowest score acceptable. I would say giving such a score would send a clear SUPPORTABLE message within the rules and totally avoid any disagreement of “is that modern or classical”

Ray Pina

05-23-2006, 06:45 AM

David Jamieson

05-23-2006, 06:56 AM

The fact that this is even a discussion is very disturbing to me.

Yes, you need to have structure, mechanics, leverage .... why is it that I know so many CMA schools packed with students who can perform countless forms crisply, beautifully, no doubt about it, but put boxing gloves on and throw two strikes at them and they bend backwards at the waist?

For all you teachers out there, try this test in class this weak. Don't say anything, put closed head gear on your student, have them just stand their and tell them to defend themselves against a simple 1-2 punch. See how many flinch backwards bending at their waist.

Look, I'm not living in fantasy land here. Your students are not becoming skilled fighters. They're not. If they were, even a small percentage of them interested in going out would be flooding all the fighting venues we have today. But they're not. They tend to hide in their own little world of tornado kicks and chi sau with no contact competitions. This is fine. To each their own. But then they need to know when to pipe down when it comes to fisticuffs.

Sorry, I just don't think many CMA instructors are preparing their students to face real hand-to-hand violence. Ontop of that, they mislead them thinking that they are taking them down that route when they know themselves inside they aren't. That's wrong. It's wrong to lie to your students, it's wrong to pollute your style.

Get the skills to teach right or be honest about what you're doing ..... historical preservation, not martial science.

Uh, i don't think i know anyone who has much time on the mat that bends backwards at teh waist when they get hams tossed at em.

newbs will be newbs. when you stepped in the fiurst time, I'm sure you probably ate a lot of knuckle sandwhiches. What training where you doing? YOu weren't trained yet to fight that's all.

form has it's place. It is a tool, it is not a constant and because of the interesting points of teh tool, it has become something that is emphasised for it's own artistic merit.

To believe that structure and alignment make you a better fighter without practicing how to fight is a delusion many martial artists suffer from I agree, but to throw away the tool because you are at this timne incapable of understanding it's value will change nothing except that you will derive no benefit from form practice as it should be. THat is to say as part, not all of ones training regime.

you shadow box? stepping drills? repititiously practice attacks and defenses? or do you just stand there and breath and maybe lift some weights and then go bang?

the whole "formlessness" argument is in and of itself a delusion used by some to seperate themselves from something they don't like for entirely personal reasons and that has nothing to do with reality. If you practice combonations of any sort in the air and not against an opponent, that's not different from doing forms.

there once was a karate guy who said "there is only one karate".
That statement, once you get it sorted, you will find is true.

forest for the trees in other words.

MasterKiller

05-23-2006, 06:58 AM

Can someone post the clip of Shogun using that tornado kick in PRIDE please? It's the same fight where he almost gets the Omo Palata in the first 30 seconds.

This really just reminds me of the thread where Ray argued that "real" CMA has no roundhouse kicks...

David Jamieson

05-23-2006, 07:03 AM

here's the oine i always get a little giggle out of.

instructor new way - "we don't use forms"

the dude -"then what are those guys doing?"

inw- "those are drills man!"

td- "aren't they the same thing as forms?"

inw -"No they're drills man, big difference"

td -"drills eh?"

inw- "yeah cool concept eh?"

lol.

SPJ

05-23-2006, 07:19 AM

Sorry, I just don't think many CMA instructors are preparing their students to face real hand-to-hand violence. Ontop of that, they mislead them thinking that they are taking them down that route when they know themselves inside they aren't. That's wrong. It's wrong to lie to your students, it's wrong to pollute your style.

there is a difference.

I happen to know 2 popular wushu or tai chi kung fu schools in the area. there are teaching some basics and then form works old and new. some Qi Gong, some push hands. It is a short course and not expensive. It is to let the public have some ideas of Tai Chi and Tang Lang.

there is no saying about turning you into a fighter. they enjoy performing choreographed fighting sets at public events. that is about it.

:)

Ray Pina

05-23-2006, 09:04 AM

David J:
I do "form work," in the sense that I train specific ideas in motion, such as, can I walk back and forth doing an uppercut where I am driving off the back leg, using my hip, waist, rib, elbow, everthing to drive that strike. I do it over and over.

Now, we can argue it back and forth, but that is a completely different intent than what is accepted as "form" today. You know it, and I, someone who has learned Isshin-Ryu, Hung Gar, Bak Mei, Lau Gar and Wing CHun forms, knows it.

You can take any movement and place it into my model. So in that sense, by training one thing, I'm training all things.

In the reverse, I see people training all things (millions of strikes, kicks, sweeps, jumps, flairs, weapons, spinning, you name it) and exhibiting no skill what so ever.

I think we all know the difference.

Master Killer:
Anything can work in its time and place. I'm not arguing that a tornado kick can't land. I'm not arguing that a spinning kick can't land. I almost had my collar bone broken by a TKD cresent kick.

But let me ask, do you think that MMA fighter trained that kick in his form and tested it for the first time in the cage? How much time do you think he puts into form work? How much time does Cung Le put into form work? And when I mean form I mean: bow, foot A goes here, foot be goes there, spin, duck, point finger to the sky, foot A goes here, etc., etc., etc.. bow, end.

As far as the round house kick like you are talking, I still say its not in TCMA, that it has been incorporated from outside influences. Not saying it's not being taught as traditional. Not saying it's not in form being taught as traditional.

This is just what I hear from the old school Chinese that I respect, who learned and fought in China. I also see that these kicks come from the outside and work there way inside (exposing the groin), that they are vertical balanced.

Now, I say a well trained CMA has all kicks available to him/her: front, round, side, even back. But you see taiji, Hsing-I, Ba Gua .... where is the kick as you know it in their form?

But they train to not only use the snapping power that people love to hear from their gi pants (any TKD kid can do it), but the back leg also as a driving source of power, the hip. What direction the leg goes, any decent martial artist has that ability already.

Ray Pina

05-23-2006, 09:14 AM

there is a difference.

I happen to know 2 popular wushu or tai chi kung fu schools in the area. there are teaching some basics and then form works old and new. some Qi Gong, some push hands. It is a short course and not expensive. It is to let the public have some ideas of Tai Chi and Tang Lang.

there is no saying about turning you into a fighter. they enjoy performing choreographed fighting sets at public events. that is about it.

:)

I would first ask, are the classes free? Otherwise, let's be clear on the intent. And there's nothing wrong with making a buck.

But now you're charging. So the big question: are these self defense applications being taught as part of these basics?

That's it in a nut shell. If you're teaching someone "self defense" they should be able to produce results that will defend them.

Otherwise, don't call it Supreme Ultimate Boxing or Mantis Fist, call it Chinese Opera. That is my point. Otherwise you have Shaolin Monk wannabees with delusions of granduer that can get them hurt at the most, taking their money through disception at the least.

I just don't think it's right. Teach what you know and label what you know honestly.

The Civil War Memmorial Society does not recruit people for militant training. They put on uniforms and march up the street and there's nothing wrong with that. It's when they start putting their two cents into military affairs, and when their number and voice are actually larger than those in the know, that CMA is in jeopardy of losing everything. Everything is becoming Wushu. We should be outraged about this and fighting to reverse this trend and preserve what's left. Do you think it's by accident this is happening in China?

David Jamieson

05-23-2006, 09:18 AM

ray-

the difference is semantics.

whether one does long form or short, if they focus only on combos that consist of 3 or 4 moves or what not, it is all working towards teh same thing. I.E training to make an attack or a defense work in structure so that later it can be applied in action.

the choreography is longer in some forms of course, but if you are doing a+b=c you are still doing the same thing as in left foot goes here, right foot goes there, step to the outside etc etc etc. Changing the language around what one is doing doesn't change what one is doing in the least.

one could argue the validity and martial applicability of some of the things they see, but one could also argue about all the times you see competition fighters missing the obvious moves you can see they should make while in conflict.

how many times have any of us said to ourselves , I shoulda done a there or b here or x and y. How many times do we watch fighters and get frustrated that they are not seeing the openings that we as spectators see? This happens all teh time.

drills, forms, angles, etc etc all the same stuff, just different methods of getting to it. but again, changing the language around it doesn't change what is being done.

it's all dance and it's all choreography until it gets to the touching part, then it's applied and it all comes down to who is better that day or who has obviously practiced more and had more experience.

btw and fwiw, i've seen a lot of axe kicks, roundhouses, spinning kicks et al pulled right out of the tma textbooks and used in mma settings. It's not that uncommon at all really.

MasterKiller

05-23-2006, 09:24 AM

As far as the round house kick like you are talking, I still say its not in TCMA, that it has been incorporated from outside influences. Not saying it's not being taught as traditional. Not saying it's not in form being taught as traditional. This is just what I hear from the old school Chinese that I respect, who learned and fought in China.
My style comes from a guy who learned kung fu in China, and left China in 1949. And two of my hand sets have CMA-style roundhouse kicks. If the kicks he learned pre-1949 aren't Chinese, where did they come from?

I also see that these kicks come from the outside and work there way inside (exposing the groin), that they are vertical balanced
Chinese roundhouse brings the knee up straight, then rolls the hip over so that the groin is not exposed. It is less powerful than a Thai kick, but more "safe."

David Jamieson

05-23-2006, 09:26 AM

as an aside, i would say that tma schools are lacking in the area of conditioning.

the focus is why this is. but there is not a lot of creedence giving to the value of hard cardio workouts and heavy bag work to the level it should be to really make a person able to endure like you will find in mma type schools.

hardcore cma schools do it, but in my experience, those are few and far between really. There is a lot of "take it easy" attitude which can lead to laziness and an inability to endure hard strikes or panic situations.

just an observation. I also feel that there is an abundance of this type of training in mma, but not a lot done about technique development with the option being favoured to a lot of conditioning and delivering the big one. But with time, i even see that morphing into a more refined way.

it'll all hash out in the end though, and the field will be evened in regards to the whoel sportive combative thing.

I also think the whole "train for the street" line is hogwash for the most part and an excuse to not pressure test those things that are key and the bulk of the purpose of martial training. I believe you can't swim if you never go into the water and you can practice a front stroke all day in the air but it will be totally different and requiring a lot of adjustment whe you hit the water.

Better to get in the pool and try than not to.

But, I can appreciate the value of any of it for what it is. The connections have to be made by the individual anyway.

Ray Pina

05-23-2006, 11:54 AM

Chinese roundhouse brings the knee up straight, then rolls the hip over so that the groin is not exposed. It is less powerful than a Thai kick, but more "safe."

If you added hip power from both the kicking leg and the driving leg it would be. My point is that this is different than the "traditional" round house kick you see CMA's using today which is no different than TKD or karate's roundhouse.

I know it's generally assumed that a kick is a kick but that is like saying a punch is a punch and that is not the case. The foot and fist may be involved, but it's who's sending it out and how that makes a world of difference.

I don't see the uniqueness of Chinese kicking in the forms being performed by CMA today.

Ray Pina

05-23-2006, 12:15 PM

the choreography is longer in some forms of course, but if you are doing a+b=c you are still doing the same thing as in left foot goes here, right foot goes there, step to the outside etc etc etc. Changing the language around what one is doing doesn't change what one is doing in the least.

I honestly don't believe we are talking about the same thing. The intention is different, and more importantly, the result is different.

you see competition fighters missing the obvious moves you can see they should make while in conflict.
how many times have any of us said to ourselves , I shoulda done a there or b here or x and y. How many times do we watch fighters and get frustrated that they are not seeing the openings that we as spectators see? This happens all teh time.

I agree with this. I watch footage of myself and I say, man I should have. etc., etc.
It's rarely a matter of choosing the wrong tool. Most of the time it's being in the wrong position, wrong choice of strategy, conditioning, plane old bad luck. In my last fight, I didn't engage, I met my man flat footed. I was reacting off of him. Then, in frustration to this, I chased him, got caught. Rarely is the difference between a back fist and an uppercut, "the golden dragon seeks the clouds" or "Tiger and crane defeat all for shoalin."

As for missed holes and what not. That's always going to happen. Just like dropped passes in football. Being there in the excitement of things, the adrenaline, the speed of things in your face is quite different than at home on the couch with your feet up.

it's all dance and it's all choreography until it gets to the touching part, then it's applied and it all comes down to who is better that day or who has obviously practiced more and had more experience.

The act of choreography alone is foolish. Why train that way, that same sequence, all the time for decades? Who's going to attack you in that pattern ever? And not the whole thing, I'm talking three moves. Until I see a form that adresses jab, jab, hook ..... jab, jab, uppercut .... jab, jab, shoot .... then I say hogwash.

As for depending on choreography UNTIL it gets to touching .... is this the doctrine on which your school is based? Would you go out to fight based on this?

Yes, it is going to come down to who is better that day, who practiced more and who has more experience..... at that point, how you understand collapsing power, uprooting power, driving power, pulling power, leverage, mechanics, structure --- all in relation to another human being --- will be of more value than how many times you performed Gun Jee Fuk Foo in a Chinese restuarant during Chinese New Year with studed bracelets on your wrist.

Let's face it. Take a way form, and 90% of CMA teachers lose a huge portion of their curriculum. I can only speak for myself. I have two students I've been training for almost two years, 18 and 19. No form. I would put them against students of any CMA school in my area.

They don't know what form is. They know put on boxing gloves and head gear and use the elbows to block. They know come in on the attack and keep your back straight. They know wedging kicks. They know ground.

To me, that is teaching someone self defense. They meet a boxer friend and they bring them by. I play with them. We all know in this game on any given day. There's no shame in being bested. This happened yesterday. I wasn't bested. But this is the example I want to make as their teacher. I want them to know this isn't a game, this isn't dress in Chinese clothes and DANCE. This is beat someone's a$$ or have your a$$ beat.

Sorry for so many words and I'll shut up now. Just that this subject, I swear to you, I live and breath it. It's on my mind all the time. I want to be the absolute best.

dleungnyc

05-23-2006, 12:58 PM

This is the type of Tai Chi they are trying to promote in China right now.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3l81v5HRZE&search=wushu%20taiji

Ray Pina

05-23-2006, 01:07 PM

PS

I'd like to conclude by humbling myself. I know I just came off like a know it all, but rest assured I am humbled every time I walk through my master's door, everytime I see pro fighters on TV competing at a level I can not call my own.

I still have much to learn (hopefully not the hard way), much to see and hear. All I'm trying to say is we need to be more honest with ourselves.

Look, I can talk about my second degree black belt in Issin-Ryu, my hung gar training, wing Chun, S Mantis .... that's why it's hard to bull$hit me. I've trained with people considered very good in those fields, with good lineages. I've competed in the kung fu tournaments. I know what's out there. I aint saying these things just to say them.

We need to wake up! We can go back and forth on the internet all day are we can make a commitment to right the wrongs. I know this sounds sappy, but teachers need to do the right thing ..... stop lying to your students. And this goes to the teacher who has nothing of martial merit talking around his skills, talking down about other styles as well as the teacher who has much who's withholding from a student who is deserving. Good students don't grow on trees. What you're holding back today may not have a safe haven to grow tomorrow.

I just wish we could collectively cut the bull$hit and be real with ourselves as martial artists, and with our students and teachers alike. This is the best path for growth.

PangQuan

05-23-2006, 02:53 PM

Ray's message is clear and it is correct. Sure there are some trivial technical issues that may be disagreed upon, but overall, i think we all feel the same way.

thers is a LOT of bs out there.

roundhouse kick...

not sure about that one, we do them, but we call them saber kicks.

they are not included into our wushu practice, only our application and kick drills.

my teacher was trained by a very traditional master, no wushu at all. (he picked that up in beijing) i would assume that the kick is grounded in traditional arts, but not highly practiced in many sets. he spent his time in thailand fighting in the ring, but ours is done very differently than thai style...hes very adamant about keeping things sectioned, ie: this is modern wushu, this is traditional....etc..

but over all the bs needs to stop being forwarded. i think now people are starting to realize more and more that you have to really research what your going to do if you want any real benefit. with this continuing trend, hopefully many of the crockpots out there will start to fade away....hopefully...

David Jamieson

05-23-2006, 03:15 PM

well, i think an endless diet of forms will get you nothing but a bunch of forms.

you gotta take em apart, they must be extrapolated from.

If not, then I entirely agree with rays posts.

My point is that forms are an effective way of introducing body mechanics, balance, co-ordination and in tuneness with a students and their understanding of what it is they will be doing at the next step.

they serve as reference as well and contain a styles body of techniques such as kicks punches, throws holds etc etc. In some styles, there are very unusual motions that are not apparent at first glance but with time, they are discovered and generally there's a little head smacking going on for not getting it earlier.

But if we all "got it" without doing the work, it wouldn't be worth it at all. lol

I agree, there is a lot of pompous ass hattery going around in martial arts from overly esoteric chi blasting bs to rex kwon do maniacs who think brute force and intimidation is the way. lol

Ray, I humble myself every time I practice and will continue to do so. It forces one to examine themselves and examine what they are doing. I have to agree with the ancients who iterated that the unexamined life is not worth living. and that's what kungfu is about.

PangQuan

05-23-2006, 03:36 PM

PS

that taiji clip up above is fucd up

Ray Pina

05-23-2006, 03:39 PM

I am not one to say, if you want to learn to swim jump in the pool. What I am saying, get in the 3 foot pool, let me suspend your body, and go over the basic swimming motion we went over just now on land so you can feel the water resistance and how to use it.

This is different than spending all your time, most of your time, even 1/2 or 1/4 of your time on land making believe to do all the different possible strokes.

You do not need form to learn these lessons. Form only prolongs it. You can learn pushing/pulling angle in minutes with a partner. You can be shown how to train it in motion through walking excersices to develop power.

Basic shielding and how to use the elbows, same thing, same class. In one hour you now know how to have momentum and shield yourself.

This is the major point. You have to get over this form crutch. Let's for argument sake say that is the way they used to do it (I'm of the opinion the government started promoting form competitions as a way to make millions of Chinese less dangerous) .... you don't need it any more. Put it down. It's an antique. Update.

You and your students could be better but you have to admit that your formula is broken. Don't hang onto it so as to be right, to hold onto your money making scheme. Start changing. Your students will respect you for it. If you have to start training again, do it. Find a good gym and train 1 or 2 days a week and implement what you learn in time.

I spend a lot of time around MAists, CMAist in particular... there isa world of difference in the vibe coming off someone who cna use their stuff and a form collector. It is like night and day. Not meanness, not ****iness. But a confidence to discuss differences, a willigness to see and test and explore. Form collectors say it is the way it is because it's always been that way .... at the best, they change the conversation when things get to "let's see it." At the worst they warn you of how dangerous they are.

Personaly. I feel I'm not wrong for calling people who claim to be CMAists on this. You play chess? Lets play. You studied Hung Gar for 5 years? Want to roll? Why not? Not your thing? OK< let's put on some gloves and see what you got?

Wait, no ground? No stand up? What gives?

BruceSteveRoy

05-23-2006, 04:34 PM

that tai chi video is garbage. i actually got angry watching it. the worst part are the comments people left about it.

mantis108

05-23-2006, 05:00 PM

welcome to the wonderful world of Wushu?! :eek:

That's definitely a Fu(k up Wushu-Taiji.

Mantis108

WinterPalm

05-23-2006, 05:02 PM

Forms serve as a great way to condition the body and ingrain reflexes in order to allow the body to move through a very wide variety of positions without undue strain and discomfort. Many incorporate intense conditioning and breathing components that significantly increase physical and mental conditioning. Getting rid of forms is not an option if you train in a system that values the attributes they give one...if you have no forms and are fine without them and your system is developed in some other way, than fine, don't do forms.

However, forms give you much to practice on your own time and also create a very crucial eye and feel towards proper mechanics. Forms are done in concert with other types of training such as the basics of punching, kicking, stepping, general movement, and physical conditioning.

However, again, I wouldn't practice without one to one drills, self-defense, and obviously sparring...which all bring together the concepts and theories of the style's forms into a coherent whole.

Fighting is fighting and you spar, go through drills, go through more drills, and then spar some more! Forms, for the TCMA practitioner, are like the roadwork, skipping, shadowboxing, etc, of a boxer...well, in a sense, they serve on that level to prepare and condition for actual combat...I don't see them being a replacement for combat practice, but they are an integral piece of the pie.

PangQuan

05-23-2006, 09:29 PM

traditional...so, what did people originally train for? fighting? i think it was so. now when you are going to take your son, and turn him into a fighter, you do not throw him to the wolves. in those days a fight could easily mean death, or worse. often the fight was with a melee weapon. this is the globe around, not just china.

many cultures trained differently.

so in china the use of forms was part of the training process. but not all. why use the forms for the training?

we need not point out the obvious physical attributes that will be enhanced by rigorous form work. that is blatant.

times change, and with change comes opportunity. the greater the change, the greater the opportuinity. i think that global communication is one of the larges changes to ever happen to mankind.

is it not wise to share our knowledge and sciences, in all areas? does not every culture have thier own answer to the questions that have plague all peoples?

opportunity.

right now, more so than ever, we are feeling the changes of this communication. feeling the opportunities bloom.

i say make the most of it. does not our martial arts teach us that adaption is the key?

take what is usefull from anything you find, use it.

i find forms usefull. is that all i practice? LMAO...no. that would be stupid. but the thing is, i can FEEL the effect they have. thats enough for me. its a different effect then what i get from a good solid sparring match.

forms are a way of getting the body to move with a pre designed "style" so to speak. if you learn without form, your fighting will be much different than the person who has had a style engrained into thier motion.

its just that within form is the style, and within the style, is the design of its creator. thats why some styles are weak and some are strong, it depends on the styles originator and those that have upheld its tradition. many styles have died with thier creators.

SPJ

05-24-2006, 07:15 AM

quality vs quantity.

if you know ten thousand techniques, it is not as good as you know or master one technique well.

in the old time, you may practice one move over and over. that move or technique becomes your absolute move.

you may build other moves around your absolute move. you may have general defenses and then set up moves for your absolute move.

famous examples:

half step Beng Quan in Xing Yi.

Ban Lan Chui in Yang Tai Chi.

single exchange palm in Ba Gua etc.

--

:D

Ray Pina

05-24-2006, 07:27 AM

now when you are going to take your son, and turn him into a fighter, you do not throw him to the wolves. in those days a fight could easily mean death, or worse. often the fight was with a melee weapon. this is the globe around, not just china.

People have trained fencing for centuries without form. All you need are two sticks.

Every system has core moves that must be trained all the time, with a partner or by yourself. You do this to keep the machine well oiled, to train the mind and body .... that's why boxers shadow box, wrestlers and fencers have a form of this too. But I would not equate this to wushu.

I would equate most of the form I see in CMA today to wushu. I keep hearing how it prepares you and conditions you for fight.... this is just not true. How many competitve fights have these people based this theory on?

There's nothing more taxing than being in the ring. The No. 1 thing is nerves. And the only thing to help you with that is experience, being calm in combat. Two, all the pulling, pushing and leverage -- hitting and being hit .... please don't compare that to form.

As for the coordination and movement, look, any MA will have it. But you don't need all that movement, sometimes too much movement, too loose is no good ... you get tied up like a pretzel. Do you think Ali could perform today's wushu sets in his prime?

I'm sorry, I'm saying it: These people promoting form are promoting the thing they're comfortable with and trying to tie it to the thing they want .... martial proficiency. But look at the people that are doing what they want to do at a high level ..... none of them are doing form.

Am I the only one that sees this? Is this not clear as day?

I'm not saying fight to learn fighting. I'm saying focus on specific principles and qualities and train them like mad. I know those are in the form:rolleyes: but it doesn't seem to be working for most CMAs. Maybe it's time to change the model.

PangQuan

05-24-2006, 09:43 AM

the form is good for conditioning. that is what i see as its primary function. only actual resistance training with a live partener will help to prepare you for combat. but only combat will seal the deal on your skills.

true, un bias combat, cannot even be prepared for through means other than actual combat. which is very seldom participated in today, except by armed forces in general.

forms will condition the body and provide mechanical study, sparring will develop a better understanding of fighting and resisting elements, fighting (such as for sport, or fun) will help to create a foundation for combat, yet only combat can give you the experience to truly understand combat.

for example, how many modern sport fighters could stand against general lu bu in a one on one match. very few if any. he was forged through battle on the field of blood. he probably never practiced form from another, but he likely had his own solo routines he would go through with his great halberd.

there are levels, and there are processes.

even the western fencer will go through techniques solo in the air, same as a chinese. chinese just like to put their forms together. the form is not the long sequence of movements. this is a common mis conception. that is a sequence of forms. when you use one technique, that is a form. the form by which that particular technique is held. much like a form used in construction. each form has a multitude of other forms that will flow easily from it. thus the sequence.

I in no way condone training solely through form training, yet i do feel it has a small place. if you want style that is. some would surely argue that style is a bad idea.

for me, personally, i highly enjoy the shaolin sets that i know. I plan to learn all 10 from my master, as well as the personalized one i will recieve at the end of my training with him. i do learn other forms, i dont highly care for them myself.

i know within myself i have already decided BJJ is my next step. I, like many others, have been highly influenced by the philosophies of JKD. Im creating my foundation, and form work is part of the foundation i have chosen. its like the little rocks you find in concrete. they dont need to be there, but they have substance all the same.

PangQuan

05-24-2006, 09:56 AM

ray,

i do have to say i enjoy conversating with you, you always push the subject into reality, and express yourself in a dignified manner. that is a rare quality.

i have learned much since starting my practice of CMA, i have all but forgotten my fencing training.

i studied fencing for 5 years. (japanese style weapon, bokken) though under no teacher, unfortunately. yet in the 5 years i studied, it was all done through live practice with several good friends. ive broken fingers, split heads, busted nose, and various other injuries, but put a stick in my hand and i garantee you a good match.

Granted i feel that i have decent live combat skills with that particular weapon, i can tell that with a master drilling form work, my cuts would be much stronger, and with more precision.

would i trade the power and precision for my fighting knowledge? no...as long as i have enough to get the job done, i would rather be able to get my moderate strikes in and connect.

Ray Pina

05-24-2006, 11:10 AM

Granted i feel that i have decent live combat skills with that particular weapon, i can tell that with a master drilling form work, my cuts would be much stronger, and with more precision..

I agree if by form you mean training the movements that generate power, such as collapsing the rib, the whole torso going down with your strike. I'm not sure I'd agree if you're talking about doing a "broadsword set", with rolls and jumping spin kicks, etc.

I really don't know weapons much, but saw a little when I first started my training with my master. Here's an example of form vs something else.

I had a friend who moved to Arizona and trained kali stick fighting for about a year and a half.

I learned stick for about a week, but learned some major principles, such as don't lead with your hand, lead with the stick, two sides of a triangle are longer than the remaining side, etc.

So this dude comes back and wants to show off his stick play. I say cool, bring over your stick (s) and your gloves ...... "Gloves?" ...... Yea, gloves dude. Do you want to smash each other's bare hand...... "I don't have gloves." ..... Don't worry, you can borrow mine.

He comes over, he borrows my LaCrosse gloves, he has two sticks, I have one. Sure enough, he swings over hand with his stick behind his hand .... my stick, which was held low, which he commented was wrong, swings up and catches his wrist while his stick is facing at about 12 o'clock, straight up .... not even close to a threat. Even with the gloves he drops the stick.

Turns out, he learned: cut 1, cut 2, cut 3, cut 4, etc, etc., etc And their "live" traing consisted of playing lightsabers with these cuts on each other's stick.

How good his teacher was, I don't know. But I think there's a big lesson in there. In one week I learned one or two solid principles that I carried with me for two years, never used, but was able to beat someone who was swinging , unknown to himself, mindlessly, for almost that entire time.

When you have power and structure any form will do. Just like when you have money, you never worry about what you can afford.

You can sell a fool a million different tools that he'll never use. A skilled craftsman can do a million things with just a few tools.

Anyway, sorry for so many words. And you inspired me with your weapons. It's something I want to make time for but I'm just not satisfied with my hands yet. Someday I hope.

Peace
Ray

David Jamieson

05-24-2006, 11:16 AM

well...you probably shouldn't train a weapon to be used against another weapon. The weapon should be trained to attck the flesh that holds teh weapon.

I mean, yeah, there is the art of parrying, but that is minimal compared to the art of getting in to the meat.

the closest target is usually the hand of your opponent.

PangQuan

05-24-2006, 11:34 AM

i do know two chinese broadsword sets.

and i can tell you, if i were to fence, i am much more comfortable using what i learned through actual sparring matches with wooden weapons.

though i have taken what i learned in my sparring and applied what i have learned in form as well.

once i completed my first dao set, i went again to spar my friends. (using wodden dao) this time i used all i had previously learned through sparring to engage my enemy and defend myself from pressing attacks.

for this particular sparring match my opponent i knew i already outclassed somewhat. i was able, to more often than not, defeat him in a match. using my previous knowledge birthed in actual action, it was an increadable feeling to apply my new found techniques in combat. those derived from form work.

it was similar to the feeling of broad expiramentation, that is felt when freefighting and learning through doing. the only difference was that i used my knowledge of fighting through fighting to create openings for my new techniques. what i discovered is that once the opening is created, and utilized, the techniques i had chosen to pull from my set were very successfull. near to the point of overwhelming my opponent. using several forms from the set in sequence, i created a confident barrage, wrought in practice, that my opponent had no idea how to defend against.

though at the same time, i had to FEEL my way through. even using movements i had practiced a thousand time before. it was still alien to free movement. though once applied and understood in combat, the techniques i had chosen became a powerful tool.

this is the point i actually understood the necessity to try techniques learned in form to a freemoving environment. to, in a sence, re-establish the comfortability of these movments.

to first learn a movement and become comfortable with it, will never assure your comfort in using said movement in combat. only combat will do that.

it is to take the form and then apply it to combat taht makes it effective. for there are many techniques that are transmitted in form alone, that we would othewise not know. given the sequence of forms, you can then choose which ones to take and apply to a combat scenario, to solidify in your actual combat arsenal, and thus removing it from being soley in your library of techniques available for you to train in such a way.

if any of that blab makes sense...:rolleyes:

Ray Pina

05-24-2006, 11:44 AM

That makes a lot of sense!

If I'm hearing you right you used your delivery system to open the hole, and once opened, the forms provided a source of materials to choose from. Then that is great! Truly!

I know palming someone's chin up and then burrying your fingers into their skull via the eyes and pulling down is not good, I just think many CMAs lack the delivery system to do it. Seems like you have both, the means and the assortment. Bravo.

PangQuan, if you're ever in NYC you have to stop by, my master loves the sword. He held a sword gathering last year .... no trophies or anything like that, just everybody play with everybody and then go get lunch. I hope he has one this year. I just watched, but it was great.

PangQuan

05-24-2006, 11:55 AM

i might have to make a special trip to NYC some time. never been but have always wanted to. not promising it will be any time soon, but i do promise that when i eventually make it to new york, provided you and your master are still there, i will come to visit.

thanks for the invite:D

the sword was my introduction to MA, and it will always hold a special place for me.

though the skills are often held as antiquity, there is just something about it that feels right.

WinterPalm

05-24-2006, 11:59 AM

My post was in defense of traditional combat oriented CMA...not modern wushu.

PangQuan

05-24-2006, 11:59 AM

so i guess this thread was somewhat deraile from its topic.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=7242407890235174129

some beautiful eagle claw wushu. he imbodies the spirit of the eagle well.

the way he sticks his landing at 00:46 is quite impressive.

GeneChing

10-12-2017, 10:27 AM

Slightly OT :p

Alleged 'WUSHU' graffiti artist arrested in Marietta (http://www.11alive.com/news/local/alleged-wushu-graffiti-artist-arrested-in-marietta/482494159)
Ryan Dennis, WXIA 12:47 PM. EDT October 11, 2017

http://www.11alive.com/img/resize/content.11alive.com/photo/2017/10/11/mug_1507737672304_11360894_ver1.0.png?preset=534-401

MARIETTA, GA - Police have arrested an alleged graffiti artist for his involvement with numerous tags in the city of Marietta.

Officers have arrested William Carswell and charged him with 15 felonies related to criminal trespass.

Detectives began their investigation back in September when officers received a report about vandalism at 1476 Roswell Road.

During the initial investigation of the incident it was discovered that “WUSHU” was carved into the window of Beats Barber Shop. Responding officers canvased the area speaking with residents and business owners in search of a witness.

Eventually, the officers developed a description of an individual that had used spray paint on an ice machine near 1462 Roswell Road. The officers found numerous tags on Roswell Road including in Cobb County’s jurisdiction which officials say are identical to those in Marietta.

PHOTOS : Alleged “WUSHU” graffiti artist arrested in Marietta
http://resize.tegna-media.com/remote/content.11alive.com/photo/2017/10/11/graffiti2_1507737341809_11360879_ver1.0.png?preset =wx-largehttp://resize.tegna-media.com/remote/content.11alive.com/photo/2017/10/11/graffiti3_1507737340292_11360878_ver1.0.png?preset =wx-largehttp://resize.tegna-media.com/remote/content.11alive.com/photo/2017/10/11/graffiti_1507737302800_11360877_ver1.0.png?preset= wx-large

This investigation sparked a deeper look at the acts of vandalism in the Cobb County area, linking together footage of several locations being tagged by a man that fit Carswell’s description.

Police said Caswell has two prior arrests, each with similar charges of interference with government property, criminal trespass and criminal damage to property.

The Marietta Police Department has contacted neighboring agencies in reference to similar acts of vandalism in their jurisdictions that may also be linked to Carswell.

The current investigations into the tagging problem in the area is ongoing.

GeneChing

09-23-2019, 01:38 PM

Didn't quite know where to post this as Wu has worked on a number of films we've discussed so I'm going with the upcoming Mulan one (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?68640-Mulan-Live-Action-Disney-project) and the Wushu one (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?28273-Wushu).

AUGUST 29, 2019 9:45AM PT
Production Artist Jane Wu Smashes Glass Ceiling With Her Work on Action Movies (https://variety.com/2019/artisans/production/production-artist-jane-wu-action-movies-1203314971/)
By S.D. KATZ

https://pmcvariety.files.wordpress.com/2019/08/alan-taylor-and-jane-wu.jpg?w=1000&h=563&crop=1
CREDIT: COURTESY OF WARNER BROS.

“If no one is dying, nothing is exploding and no one is trying to kill each other, you shouldn’t be calling me,” says Jane Wu, a storyboard artist with credits including “Spider-Man: Into the Spider-Verse,” “Thor: Ragnarok” and Disney’s upcoming live-action remake of “Mulan.”

Wu is one of the few women who work in this segment of the business, where artists sketch out the action sequences that the rest of a movie’s crew will spend months realizing for the big screen.

Wu says she used the more generic name J. Wu in the early part of her career. With her talents now in high demand, she doesn’t need the abbreviation. “By the time I got a shot at ‘The Avengers,’ they already knew my name,” she says. “[Director] Joss [Whedon] was looking for more action people and asked, ‘Who is this person that I keep hearing about?’ That got him curious enough to bring me in, and I got the gig.”

A graduate of Otis College of Art and Design, Wu started her career by opening a comic book shop in the 1990s and drawing comics in her spare time. She was a student of the traditional Chinese martial art wushu, and that knowledge helped her draw technically correct poses when choreographing fight scenes.

Her first break was being hired as a character designer for the late-1990s animated TV series “Men in Black.” Wu says she preferred story and sequential art, and her skeptical director agreed to give her a shot at storyboarding.

“I failed miserably,” Wu says. “I didn’t understand scene construction.” She was advised to watch old black-and-white movies with the sound off; things began to click after a few months.

She began storyboarding on Season 2 of “Men in Black,” as well as producing and directing a couple of episodes. She moved on to storyboarding the animated “Godzilla: The Series,” the “Tinker Bell” video series and the Disney sequel “Mulan 2.”

She broke into live-action storyboarding with an uncredited turn on “The A-Team” and followed it up with “Captain America: The First Avenger” and “Percy Jackson: Sea of Monsters.” But the move brought new challenges.

“I was the only woman in the story pit,” she says. “No women directors, no women story artists. I knew I needed to be one of the boys, so I would play basketball at lunch with everyone and talk nerd stuff to fit in, and with my tomboy upbringing, I was shortly in the club and accepted by the pack.”

Working in New York on the “Sopranos” prequel, Wu faced another challenge to her action skill set. “I wanted to Dutch [tilt] one of the shots to heighten the action, but I was told ‘The Sopranos’ is about realism not fantasy.”

Her next gig opens another new door: serving as a producer alongside director Alan Taylor on “Gold Mountain,” about the 1850s San Francisco gold rush.

Ultimately, Wu didn’t wind up using a flying kick to break down barriers in the industry; her storyboard sketches did.

I spoke at Otis College of Art and Design on a panel for Shaolin: Temple of Zen: Photographs by Justin Guariglia (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?48263-Shaolin-Temple-of-Zen-Photographs-by-Justin-Guariglia&p=829965#post829965). It produces some amazing artists.

GeneChing

09-24-2019, 08:13 AM

Iran’s “Zero to Platform” nominated for Discovery Award at Raindance Film Festival (https://www.tehrantimes.com/news/440195/Iran-s-Zero-to-Platform-nominated-for-Discovery-Award-at-Raindance)
Culture
September 16, 2019

https://media.mehrnews.com/d/2019/09/16/4/3238923.jpg

TEHRAN – “Zero to Platform”, a documentary by Sahar Mosayyebi, chronicling the life of three Iranian wushu athlete sisters, has been nominated for the Discovery Award at the 27th Raindance Film Festival in London, the organizers have announced.

The documentary recounts the concerted efforts of the Mansurian sisters, Elaheh, Shahrbanu and Soheila, who chose wushu martial art to achieve success in life despite all the hardship they have faced throughout their life.

The film registered as “Platform” in the festival’s schedule will be competing with five other films, including “A Dobugawa Dream” from Japan, “Miguelito” from Australia and “Oray” from Germany.

As a large independent film event in the UK, the Raindance Film Festival will be running from September 18 to 29.

The festival is officially recognized by the Academy of Motion Picture Arts and Sciences, the British Academy of Film and Television Arts and the British Independent Film Awards. Selected shorts will qualify for Oscars and BAFTA considerations.

Photo: A scene from “Zero to Platform” by Sahar Mosayyebi.

RM/MMS/YAW

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dsVqPGC_PTM

THREADS
Wushu (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?28273-Wushu)
Zero to Platform (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?71502-Zero-to-Platform)

GeneChing

05-28-2021, 09:23 AM

https://iwga-www.azureedge.net/img/contents/2136/header-col8-763.jpg?1622126135
THE WORLD GAMES FAMILY GROWS (https://www.theworldgames.org/news/The-World-Games-17/The-World-Games-Family-Grows-2136)
The World Games family welcomes two new members. During the Annual General Meeting (AGM) of the International World Games Association (IWGA), the representatives of the 36 participating member federations approved the applications of the International Wushu Federation and International Sambo Federation. A two-thirds majority was required.

The AGM was again held remotely due to the restrictions caused by the COVID-19 pandemic. The meeting was attended by 36 of the 37 IWGA member federations.

IWGA President José Perurena, who chaired this year’s AGM, congratulated President Gou Zhongwen of the International Wushu Federation and President Vasily Shestakov of the International Sambo Federation on the admission of their federations as the 38th and 39th members of The World Games family. The federations already have IWGA history: Sambo was part of the official programme in London (GBR) at The World Games 1985 and in The Hague (Netherlands) in 1993. Wushu was represented at The World Games as an invitational sport in 2009 in Kaohsiung (Chinese Taipei) and in Cali (Colombia) in 2013. In 2022 in Birmingham, Alabama, Wushu will again participate in the programme.

The last new admission of a federation took place in 2014, when the World Association of Kickboxing Organizations successfully applied for admission to the IWGA.

The AGM decided to extend the term of office of the IWGA Board by one year to 2023, due to the postponement of the eleventh edition of the World Games in Birmingham, Alabama to the coming year. Extending the term of office by one year will enable the existing board to complete the preparations for The World Games 2022 in the USA.

Max Bishop, Vice-President of the IWGA, describes why the motion of prolongation was on the agenda:

"Leaving office just before the Games - and before the evaluation phase has even started - is obviously not ideal. We therefore invited the membership to extend the current ExCo's term of office, given the exceptional circumstances.”

With almost 14 months to go before the opening of the multisport-event at the newly built Protective Stadium in Birmingham Alabama, Nick Sellers, CEO of the local Birmingham Organizing Committee presented the current state of preparations for The World Games 2022 (7-17 July 2022). All 25 competition venues have now been decided upon for the ten competition days, when 34 sports will be showcased and more than 200 medal events held. In addition, Nick Sellers announced that the launch of ticket sales will be on 7th July 2021, exactly one year before the Games. Sellers assured the meeting that Birmingham is ready and very much looking forward to hosting The World Games 2022. He stated that The World Games most likely would be the first major international sports event in the USA, and possibly in the whole world, to be held with full stands again.

“It will be a great re-connection of humanity,” Sellers said.

President Perurena concluded the meeting: “Thank you all for attending, and for your understanding of the difficult circumstances that made a physical meeting impossible. Thank you also for your support of the Executive Committee.

I sincerely hope that we will all be together somewhere for next year’s AGM, just a couple of months before we all go to Birmingham for The World Games 2022. In the meantime, I look forward to seeing some of you in Birmingham this November, when we hold a series of planning meetings with the Birmingham Organising Committee.

Usually, I wish you a safe journey home. Today, I just say “Stay safe… wherever you are! Goodbye.”

The World Games is a multi-sport event staged every four years by the International World Games Association under the patronage of the International Olympic Committee. The 11th edition of The World Games will be held in Birmingham, Alabama, USA, 7-17 July 2022. 3,600 athletes from over 30 sports and 100 countries will take part in The World Games.

threads
World-Games (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?54876-World-Games)
Wushu (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?28273-Wushu)
Sambo (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?57661-Sambo)

GeneChing

03-02-2022, 10:18 AM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3m9t8MEeOLA

threads
Chinese-Pole-Dancing (http://http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?68633-Chinese-Pole-Dancing)
Wushu (https://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?28273-Wushu)

GeneChing

07-10-2022, 12:29 PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mJxGjT0DwVk

WUSHU
Birmingham, USA | July 7 - 17, 2022 (https://twg2022.com/sports/wushu/)

World-Games (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?54876-World-Games)
Wushu (http://www.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?28273-Wushu)

GeneChing

07-11-2022, 01:04 PM

National wushu athletes to compete with the world’s best (https://borneobulletin.com.bn/national-wushu-athletes-to-compete-with-the-worlds-best/)
July 9, 2022
James Kon

National wushu athletes Basma Lachkar and Hosea Wong Zhenyu left the country on Thursday night with national coach Li Hui and coach Zhao Chunjie to compete in the World Games 2022.

The World Games – from July 7 to 17 in Birmingham, Alabama, United States – is an international multi-sport event staged every four years by the International World Games Association with the support of the International Olympic Committee. Some 3,600 athletes from 34 sports and over 100 countries will take part in 223 events during the games.

Basma Lachkar is scheduled to compete in the female taiji quan and taiji jian events while Wong will be contesting in men taiji quan and taiji jian events.

Li said, “This is the highest level of international competitions in wushu tournaments. Among those who qualify for the selection are top 10 players in the 15th World Wushu Championships in 2019. Two athletes from our national wushu team are fortunate to qualify for the competition – Basma (seventh place), Wong (10th place) will be in the games with 64 top wushu exponents.

“This is a rare learning opportunity for our national atheltes. I hope our athletes will not be nervous and show their best skills. I would like to thank His Majesty Sultan Haji Hassanal Bolkiah Mu’izzaddin Waddaulah ibni Al-Marhum Sultan Haji Omar ‘Ali Saifuddien Sa’adul Khairi Waddien, Sultan and Yang Di-Pertuan of Brunei Darussalam, Brunei Darussalam National Olympic Council, the Ministry of Culture, Youth and Sports and the Brunei Wushu Federation for their continued support. We will cherish this opportunity and contribute to the country.”

https://borneobulletin.com.bn/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/PAGE-32-B_09072022.jpg
Brunei wushu delegation at the Brunei International Airport. PHOTO: JAMES KON

I hear they were televised, or streamable, somewhere...