split second of good MA on film

[Ray Pina]

Saw The Hunted or The Hunter yesterday.

When Tommy Lee Jones originally tracks him down in the forest and the guys reaches out his hands and Tommy Lee swipes at it and attacks ... I like what the guy did: He sprung into a strong, defensive shape and shielded.

This was not a "technique" in the sense he did not try to pluck the strike out of the air. He closed his door. I thought it was rather beatiful.

The movie has also inspired to me to get some spyder co (my brand of choice: inexpensive but good) training knives. I keep wanting to learn weapons but my hands just aren't where they should be yet. Still making some silly choices at times. Still a little too busy; not direct enough.

[MasterKiller]

The guys who trained Benecio and Tommy to fight were, I believe, Kalypari Silat (Sp??) instructors.

[apoweyn]

They were kali instructors. Sayoc kali to be specific.

Kalaripayitt is Indian. Silat is Indonesian. And kali is filipino.

[Judge Pen]

Whatever it was, it looked brutal and effective. The film was all right, but the MA displayed was very nice.

[apoweyn]

The extra features on the DVD go into the knife training a little bit, if you've still got it handy.

[red5angel]

my mom is brutal and effective....

[apoweyn]

Originally posted by red5angel
my mom is brutal and effective....

And trained by Chris Sayoc.

[red5angel]

possibly, she's been aorund the block a few times so no telling who she has trained with

[Ray Pina]

I watched the knife stuff on the special effects. It was so so. The defender was very alove but the attacker held his arm out while the other guy made a change or two.

Good technique, no doubt, but would have liked to see a bit of knife chi sau.

Which brings me to something I was thinking about at lunch:

That move that I loved was great in that it was a trained response into a shape that could be both offensife/defensive but I found a weakness.

essentially it is a pac sau (back hand blocking chin, forearm guarding vertically) next to a bong sau. It creates a nice wall, no doubt. But the bong sau used that way is weak. It does create a barrier, but what if the other guy wasn't born yesterday, not eating dorritos and spanking off to Janet Jackson while you trained. If he pins that arm, it's a weak position to resist collapse.

Rotate your arm so that your wrist is at waist lenght and your elbow straight up. How many pounds can your lift this way?

Over all, now I'd give it a B+. Four years ago I'd be jerking off to it though. Good stuff.

The coolist thing, when he slides down the rope head first:eek:

[apoweyn]

Honestly, I'm trying to process the technical aspects of that post. But I keep getting distracted by all the references to whacking off.

[red5angel]

so what your saying ap is if I were to make a lot of references to whacking off while I was fighting you or even just start whacking off while I was fighting you I could easily win?

[Ray Pina]

Essentially one arm up, one arm down vertically next to each other (opposite wrists to opposite elbow) combined with a side pivit.

It does create a barrier. But if I punch, I hit that barrier and then drop the elbow for a pin, then reinforce it with my other hand, we are now two hands to two hands, but my position is stronger because both my elbows are down.

I like nearly elbows to elbows with wrists crossed, slipping my lead side to the outside gate. This way I can use the big guy (shoulder/back) to clear .... same motion as hammering, pulling down a thick tree branch, ect.)

Sorry, I get excited sometimes.;)

[red5angel]

Essentially one arm up, one arm down vertically next to each other (opposite wrists to opposite elbow) combined with a side pivit.


there you go ap, not only is e-fist kind enough to reference whacking off a lot he will also provide you with instructions!

[Ray Pina]

By the way Red, this is related to what you experinced while sparring. How important is it that a bike's wheel can turn soooo fast -- ball bearinged out and oiled like mad -- if there's a stick jammed between the spokes?

Jammed up like that, 90% change to the hook or uppie. If you leave your hand right there as they go around, the prize is for the taking. Of course, if you stay there stiff there's a hell of a lot to do too. Life is great, isn't it?

[red5angel]

yep, what your saying makes sense to me man. Even without all the whacking off references.

[Christopher M]

E-Fist: Kalistas generally don't try to connect the way internalists do, it's much more punctuated, so the ideal structure is different in each case.

[rubthebuddha]

efist -- if you can't keep the bong sau out in its normal position, simply turn to let the force (and, usually, the opponent) go by. bong sau should not be an active block. rather, use it as a passive deflection when the force comes from outside your arm and moves across your body. if you go in trying to block something that isn't there yet, you're not going in attacking, and attacking is where the gusto is. :)

[apoweyn]

Originally posted by red5angel



there you go ap, not only is e-fist kind enough to reference whacking off a lot he will also provide you with instructions!

Yeah. I understand where he's coming from now. Cheers Efist.

In my experience (disclaimer), the bong sau-type structure wasn't common in eskrima. It might have been a potential lead in to a transfer (passing his arm up and over so you can get to the outside and away from his other hand; particularly important if he might have a knife in that other hand).

[KC Elbows]

Darn wing chun terminology.

IF a bong sau is the hand pointed down and the elbow pointed up, then six elbows fighters have a way around the problem you're refering to(having the elbow pinned). Now, there is always a basketball's distance between the elbows and the body. In six elbows, if what we have that's similar to a bong sau gets pressed at the elbow, the goal is to very loosely drop the elbow so that it's pointed down, but do not lose that basketball's distance. And poof, it's a pak sau, or an uppercut, or similar.

If a bong sau is not what I think it is, and the above description is sufficiently cryptic to leave you in utter confusion, I would be glad to come to your area and conduct seminars explaining this for you and your friends, $243.00 a head, plus a heineken expense that varies based on the state of my marital relations. I promise to use exciting language and easy to memorize catch phrases such as combat festiveness and The N WAYS[Notice What's Around You Stupid] techniques. You can reach me at the Y.

[red5angel]

if bong sau is done right it shouldn't collapse, it should be fluid. On the off chance it gets trapped there should be many ways to get free. I'm sure if you head over to the wing chun forum area and ask, after you get through all the lineage bashing and such you might get a very "subtle" very mystical answer about how the bong sau is very solid and subtle and if you can't use it correctly you must not understand it well. ;) that won't fix your problem but it does go a long way to explaining why most wingchun people can't fight.

[Judge Pen]

I think the ability to trap or collapse this blocking position depends on the footwork. If you can't step, then it's easier to trap the elbow and collapse. Of course that's true with any blocking posture isn't it?

[red5angel]

in this case it's turning.....

[shaolin kungfu]

*jacks furiously*