Question for mma preachers...

[KC Elbows]

...know of any boxing forums? Does trolling them for not ground fighting take away any time from trolling us for not ground fighting, or do you have time for both?:D

[SifuAbel]

LMAO!!!

[joedoe]

I vote this as one of the funniest questions of the year :D

[KC Elbows]

How about when you're trolling wrestling forums for not doing stand up work. What are your favorite forums for doing that? Do you do that before or after you hit here and the boxing forums, and did you have to learn mongolian to tell the mongols how pathetic their stand up work is? Also, why don't people from gun forums troll mma forums more for their unrealistic reliance on more than the index finger for self defense? Do they roll their eyes at your "passing the guard" thread and hijack it to talk about mercury tipped rounds?

[SifuAbel]

I think you have stumbled upon why I don't post at bullshido anymore.

[KC Elbows]

Originally posted by SifuAbel
I think you have stumbled upon why I don't post at bullshido anymore.

At least on bullshido, it's in context. On the main board here, it's become almost impossible to have a convo about a style of kung fu without someone breaking into a mma inspired frenzy of mental masturbation, complete with ascribing statements to any nearby traditionalists that they never even came close to saying. So, I figured the fanatics must be fulfilling their dogma on all those other forums, and not be solely doing so with arts not designed by white people, the racist *******s!:D

[backbreaker]

There will always be some people who don't understand(MMA or TMA) at bullshido, but just give opinions based on their first impressions or their gut instinct. I have nothing against people from different styles comparing and contrasing styles, but when it becomes trolling or insisting people in other styles are in a " fantasy land" and you are an expert in "reality" , "scientific facts", or have " the true philosophy which is totally different from others, I cannot accept that, and it might discourage legitimate people from posting because they think no matter what, someone somewhere will troll them, thinking they have " proven facts" to make them superior to other methods. I don't think this way at all, I only think that different styles will have different strengths and weaknesses to varying degrees. The way I see it is this, if your hands are down your hands are down, if you're fatigued you're fatigued, if you are vulnerable to a triangle choke you are vulnerable to it, if you're not vulnerable to it then you are not vulnerable to it.

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

:)

[KC Elbows]

Good post backbreaker.

[SifuAbel]

Originally posted by KC Elbows


At least on bullshido, it's in context. On the main board here, it's become almost impossible to have a convo about a style of kung fu without someone breaking into a mma inspired frenzy of mental masturbation.

Sorry, is disagree. This IS business as usual at bullshido. It got to this exact point where I wasn't allowed to question any of the "biblical truths" people were so zealose of regarding KF without being deemed a "kung fu nutrider". That and the utter bordom from posts that makes KFM look like a chat at Harvard college. Not to mention all the kids and fans that migrated to the forum from inception that have absolutely no clue whatsoever beside what they see on pay per view. It got boring.

[Merryprankster]

KC Elbows - doing his part for forum unity!!

I usually stay off style stuff. I don't know anything about it. I TRY to only weigh in on subjects that I actually (think) I know something about sort of. Or general training things.

Or, for instance, when I want to challenge KC Elbows to a death match of "Hide the Sausage," while SifuAbel referrees :D

Bullshido's WAY worse than here.

[KC Elbows]

Originally posted by Merryprankster
KC Elbows - doing his part for forum unity!!

I usually stay off style stuff. I don't know anything about it. I TRY to only weigh in on subjects that I actually (think) I know something about sort of. Or general training things.

Or, for instance, when I want to challenge KC Elbows to a death match of "Hide the Sausage," while SifuAbel referrees :D

Bullshido's WAY worse than here.

I'm mostly talking about people who solely exist to preach the word, with absolutely no real respect for any of kung fu, who wander in here nonetheless, and like I said, bullshido has a context where it's almost appropriate, whereas in the context of a kung fu forum, it really isn't. And I stand by what I said- I'm pretty sure I've lurked on more boxing forums than the preachy ones have ever known about. This behavior doesn't seem to be going on anywhere but asian style boards, with rare crossover.

And I'm MOSTLY trolling.:D So keep your deadly sausage to yourself.

[SifuAbel]

Originally posted by Merryprankster

Or, for instance, when I want to challenge KC Elbows to a death match of "Hide the Sausage," while SifuAbel referrees :D


My eyes! My eyes! The visual is almost too much to bare.

[KC Elbows]

Without the kegel, MP will have no hope to win. He does not have iron sphinctor, and he does not know the right time of day to attack with "snake creeps", while I happen to be a master of "kung fu fighter always rings twice", and my Deliverence Fist is incomparable.

[joedoe]

Originally posted by KC Elbows


I'm mostly talking about people who solely exist to preach the word, with absolutely no real respect for any of kung fu, who wander in here nonetheless, and like I said, bullshido has a context where it's almost appropriate, whereas in the context of a kung fu forum, it really isn't. And I stand by what I said- I'm pretty sure I've lurked on more boxing forums than the preachy ones have ever known about. This behavior doesn't seem to be going on anywhere but asian style boards, with rare crossover.

And I'm MOSTLY trolling.:D So keep your deadly sausage to yourself.

Interesting angle on that. I never considered the bashing we often get here wrt MMA and 'reality' to be racially based. I always assumed for the most part they were just people who had nothing better to do.

[KC Elbows]

Originally posted by joedoe


Interesting angle on that. I never considered the bashing we often get here wrt MMA and 'reality' to be racially based. I always assumed for the most part they were just people who had nothing better to do.

It's not racially based, imo, it's just coincidence. I was trolling again.;)

[joedoe]

Doh. :)

[KC Elbows]

But since you brought it up, are mma practitioners racists? Hmmmmmm? Remember, the nazis didn't go to China to hide out when the sheeet hit the fan, they went to......... Brazil!

[joedoe]

We're all racist.

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

how many mma guys have shaved heads?

and how many of their fans have mullets.

things to think about.

[KC Elbows]

Originally posted by GunnedDownAtrocity
how many mma guys have shaved heads?

and how many of their fans have mullets.

things to think about.

I hate nazis.

[Merryprankster]

Yeah KC, you may have some of those fancy named techniques, but have you tested them against a fully resisting opponent?

I KNOW I can get in my third hook against a...

Never mind.

[KC Elbows]

Originally posted by Merryprankster
Yeah KC, you may have some of those fancy named techniques, but have you tested them against a fully resisting opponent?

I KNOW I can get in my third hook against a...

Never mind.

Yeah, I ran into the same problem. As Lao tzu would say:

"The hiding the sausage that can be spoken is not the hiding the sausage that is. Those who speak of hiding the sausage seldom know, and those who know of hiding the sausage seldom speak."

[rogue]

I KNOW I can get in my third hook against a...

Ahhh, but could you make it work against the SHREDDER!!!! (http://www.senshido.com/swwd2.html) :eek:


"I walked into Senshido on Wednesday before going to BJJ and wrestling. Rich asked me if I would mind grappling the students while they were allowed to Shred. I said fine even though I knew I would be owned. Everytime I shot in for the single/double leg I got a facefull of hand in my face. Rich even gave me the chance to strike and grapple all out but it didn't make a difference as I still got Shredded and I'm no beginner to MMA. The Shredder owns everything on the street. Its pathetic even trying to fight it. Its just that **** good."
Dave Aguzzi I think not...

[Knifefighter]

Actually, the concept they are calling the Shredder (although a bit over-hyped), is a perfectly valid and effective series of techniques, especially when it is used with an understanding of grappling and the dynamics of real-life confrontations/assaults.

[SifuAbel]

Oh boy, so some guy claws to the face, calls it the shredder and its OK? While kung fu has had it for a centuries and its a fantasy?

deep sigh.............. :rolleyes:

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by KC Elbows
...know of any boxing forums? Does trolling them for not ground fighting take away any time from trolling us for not ground fighting, or do you have time for both?:D

I know of one, and of some mma forums, but I won't troll guys who I fear can kick my arse!:D

[Lowlynobody]

The more I see the of 'non-cma' people's writing on this forum the more funny it gets. Look at the shredder - can you say tiger claw? Can you say fingers in/at the eye or throat or face. Oh gee wiz do you think that fingers to the eye or throat could be used to get a setup kinermatic response even if it goes no where near landing? Hell that guy must think so and he's out calling it the best thing since sliced bread. First its not possible and doesn't work and then its "perfectly valid and effective series of techniques". Which one is it people?

And others who's opinion is based upon 3 or 4 years of long fist and some sparing with wing chun and SC. WTF? There we have at least two systems that I wouldn't go near learning.

On another more serious note, Sevenstar, I'm interested to know, when you were phoenix-ed, where were you hit, by what method, and with how much force? What is your opinon, in your experience, of the phoenix after being struck?

[KC Elbows]

This thread is not about seven star and his phoenix eye stories. It is about racism in mma and hiding the sausage. Common net ettiquette suggests that trolling is wrong, and you should be ashamed for trolling my thread.

[Merryprankster]

Well I'll stick to my guns. It looks like silly, low percentage stuff to me. I've had people try to gouge my eyes in wrestling, put chins in my eye, cover my mouth, fishhook, trapezius squeezes, nut shots and more.

What's my response? What's the response of every wrestler on the planet who has had to deal with this **** because it DOES happen regularly? Close your eyes, tuck your chin, tighten up your face because it's annoying, suck it the **** up and FINISH YOUR JOB.

I've also said anything can work as long as you train it. I just prefer things that I don't think are so low percentage. You want to use this stuff? Fine. Learn to FIGHT first. Add this stuff later.

[Suntzu]

Originally posted by GunnedDownAtrocity
how many mma guys have shaved heads?

and how many of their fans have mullets.

things to think about. read ST00's post about hillbilly backwoods rough and tumble.... the answer is up in them thar hills....

[KC Elbows]

Originally posted by SevenStar


I know of one, and of some mma forums, but I won't troll guys who I fear can kick my arse!:D

So what you're saying is that specialization can trump all around training?

[Knifefighter]

Originally posted by SifuAbel
Oh boy, so some guy claws to the face, calls it the shredder and its OK? While kung fu has had it for a centuries and its a fantasy?

deep sigh.............. :rolleyes: Tiger claws, shredders... whatever you want to call them have thier place (usually in a grappling situation), as long as they are put in their proper context. While they are not usually fight enders, per se, they can change the dynamics of a fight (see Gilbert Yvel vs. Don Frye in Pride). The problem I have with "traditional" styles use of these types of techs is 1- too much reliance on them; 2- expecting them to be fight enders; 3- the use of them without proper knowledge of grappling; 4- the guys who think they can use them to rip out collar bones, larynxes; etc.

[Merryprankster]

3- the use of them without proper knowledge of grappling;

Change this to the more general term fighting and I'm cool with it.

Don't worry KF, being reasonable and insisting that everything has a proper context, without which, it isn't nearly so useful will only get you screamed at.

[MasterKiller]

Originally posted by Merryprankster


Change this to the more general term fighting and I'm cool with it.

Don't worry KF, being reasonable and insisting that everything has a proper context, without which, it isn't nearly so useful will only get you screamed at. Yeah, that....and the fact these context-sensitive techniques are generally the focus of anti-CMA arguments from the grappling crowd, not to mention when a CMA person suggests they are valid, we have to spend 20 pages arguing that again, they are context-sensitive....:rolleyes:

[Merryprankster]

we have to spend 20 pages arguing that again, they are context-sensitive

Hmmm... are you on a different forum than I am?

I keep getting "What? Grappling makes your eyes immune to eye gouges?"


and the fact these context-sensitive techniques are generally the focus of anti-CMA arguments from the grappling crowd

Can't argue with this. Although I think the ever popular horse stance probably gets more air time :D

I think the less brainwashed and more nuanced on either side realize that its a contextual issue and that these are not necessarily fight enders.

[KC Elbows]

More arguing, less buddy buddy time, please.

[Merryprankster]

KC, don't make me get Ap to play hide the sausage with you again. He's a gorilla!

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by KC Elbows


So what you're saying is that specialization can trump all around training?

specialized training in multiple arts....

[KC Elbows]

Originally posted by SevenStar


specialized training in multiple arts....

So you do troll boxing forums?:D

[Liokault]

Originally posted by Knifefighter
4- the guys who think they can use them to rip out collar bones, larynxes; etc.


Why does UFC ban the grabbing of collar bones specificaly?

[backbreaker]

Originally posted by Merryprankster
Well I'll stick to my guns. It looks like silly, low percentage stuff to me. I've had people try to gouge my eyes in wrestling, put chins in my eye, cover my mouth, fishhook, trapezius squeezes, nut shots and more.

What's my response? What's the response of every wrestler on the planet who has had to deal with this **** because it DOES happen regularly? Close your eyes, tuck your chin, tighten up your face because it's annoying, suck it the **** up and FINISH YOUR JOB.

I've also said anything can work as long as you train it. I just prefer things that I don't think are so low percentage. You want to use this stuff? Fine. Learn to FIGHT first. Add this stuff later.

I'd say my experience also, is this stuff like grabbing behind the neck and eye gouging is hard to get on some one with a strong neck. I think you can only make grabbing behind the neck effective if you rotate the whole structure of their body around, and then I would still have alot better luck just slamming their head down. Otherwise this technique will be as ineffective as a standing qinna lock without the whole body. But on the other hand it seems to me if you were really good in grappling styles( any kind) you could hold them down pinned to the ground and when they're not expecting it jam your thumb into the eye. Also my grandma was walking home from the bus stop fairly late and someone snuck up behind her and grabbed at her purse, she did a crane beak attack to his eye and he ran away. Glad it didn't just **** him off.

[Merryprankster]

Why does UFC ban the grabbing of collar bones specificaly?

Because an athletic commission told them to.

Lots of stuff happens like this. Somebody says "this is dangerous" and boom, it finds it's way into the rule books. Look at chicken wing type jointlocks in folkstyle wrestling. Never mind that if the ******* just TURNED OVER and gave up the pin he'd be fine.

They're considered "too dangerous" in wrestling, but not in BJJ. Slamming is considered too dangerous in BJJ but is encouraged in wrestling (the only caveat is that you must go to the mat as well). Shoulder locks are too dangerous for Judo but just fine for BJJ...

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by KC Elbows


So you do troll boxing forums?:D

as of today, I will. Now, I need a good TKD forum to troll...

[KC Elbows]

Originally posted by SevenStar


as of today, I will. Now, I need a good TKD forum to troll...

Good...tkd forum...good...tkd forum...good...tkd forum...good...tkd forum...good...tkd forum...good...tkd forum...good...tkd forum...good...tkd forum...good...tkd forum...good...tkd forum......good...tkd forum...good...tkd forum...good...tkd forum...good...tkd forum...good...tkd forum...good...tkd forum...good...tkd forum...good...tkd forum...good...tkd forum...good...tkd forum...good...tkd forum...










































































This game cannot be won. Shall we play global thermonuclear war?:D

[MasterKiller]

Alas, most people here probably didn't get that, KC. I saw that movie when I was 12. Even had a copy on Laser Disc. :eek:

[dwid]

I got it. But it's thermonuclear war the computer decides can't be won (if I remember correctly) in one of those silly 80's "out of the mouths of babes" moments where machines innocently arrive at conclusions that should have been obvious to the adult humans all along.

Remember Short Circuit.

Of course, we now know through more modern cinema like The Matrix and A.I. that machines will render us obsolete, so I guess they weren't so innocent after all.

[MasterKiller]

But he arrives at that conclusion by playing Tic Tac Toe against himself, and once he realizes he can't beat himself, he then asks if Matthew Broderick if he wants to play another game, such as global thermonuclear war.

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by MasterKiller
Alas, most people here probably didn't get that, KC. I saw that movie when I was 12. Even had a copy on Laser Disc. :eek:

I love that movie. It was the world's first major intro to hacking.

[norther practitioner]

Am I the only one who doesn't know what movie to which this is in refference.... It sounds familiar......

[SevenStar]

war games.

[norther practitioner]

Oh, word...

I remember that, I'll have to put it on my Netflix.

[Knifefighter]

Originally posted by Liokault



Why does UFC ban the grabbing of collar bones specificaly? Because many of the people serving on athletic commissions are just as brainwashed about these dumb-a$$ techniques as some of the traditional guys practicing them are. That, and the fact that they noticed how damaging 260 lb world-class wrestler Dan Severn was to his opponents when he tried that in the UFC.

[Lowlynobody]

So which one is it Knifefighter? A dum-a$$ technique or something that was so damaging that they baned it?


Sorry KC I'll try not to troll your troll threads.

[Knifefighter]

It was so damaging that a 260 lb Dan Severn couldn't hurt someone with it. Of course, the problem was probably that he hadn't studied an internal art for the past 40 years and had diluted his abilities with "sport" training.

[Merryprankster]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Why does UFC ban the grabbing of collar bones specificaly?
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------



Because an athletic commission told them to.

Lots of stuff happens like this. Somebody says "this is dangerous" and boom, it finds it's way into the rule books. Look at chicken wing type jointlocks in folkstyle wrestling. Never mind that if the ******* just TURNED OVER and gave up the pin he'd be fine.

They're considered "too dangerous" in wrestling, but not in BJJ. Slamming is considered too dangerous in BJJ but is encouraged in wrestling (the only caveat is that you must go to the mat as well). Shoulder locks are too dangerous for Judo but just fine for BJJ...

Did I miss something here?

[Knifefighter]

Originally posted by Merryprankster


Did I miss something here? Yeah... footlocks and knee bars used to be frowned upon in BJJ. Back when I started, crowds would boo if you went for a lower body sumbission in a tourney. Now they are standard practice.

Heelhooks are still considered too dangerous for BJJ, but are fine in submission grappling events. BJJ allows inside figure 4 footlocks, but not outside figure 4's. Collar chokes across the face are fine in some competitions, but not allowed in others. A few BJJ comps also allow slamming.

One of the dumbest moves ever, the straight arm throat strangulation is not allowed in a variety of competitions.

Then there's all the MMA rules- some allow elbows, some knees, some on the ground, some only standing, etc, etc.

Gets confusing at times.

[Ralphie]

Are wrist locks legal in events? The reason I ask is even though they aren't used widely in modern grappling, I heard they can be applied in many situations, but can cause a break quickly, so are rarely practiced.

[Merryprankster]

Are wrist locks legal in events? The reason I ask is even though they aren't used widely in modern grappling, I heard they can be applied in many situations, but can cause a break quickly, so are rarely practiced.

Aren't NEARLY as nifty as people want them to be, but EXCELLENT in the right context. I've tapped many people with them.

KF,

I reposted what I posted because Lowlynobody seemed to have it in for you rather than really being interested in the answer to the question...

[BlueTravesty]

here's a little Visual Basic-style formula I came up with to help with the whole collarbone deal.

IF fighter.nerve_endings_around_collarbone = TRUE

AND

fighter.on_some_kind_of_controlled_substance = FALSE

THEN

Really_Hard_Hit.collarbone = OUCH!




hmmm... seems VB doesn't recognize "OUCH!"... maybe it's the exclamation point?

[joedoe]

Originally posted by BlueTravesty
here's a little Visual Basic-style formula I came up with to help with the whole collarbone deal.

IF fighter.nerve_endings_around_collarbone = TRUE

AND

fighter.on_some_kind_of_controlled_substance = FALSE

THEN

Really_Hard_Hit.collarbone = OUCH!




hmmm... seems VB doesn't recognize "OUCH!"... maybe it's the exclamation point?

That's because it probably should be:

collarbone.Really_Hard_Hit = OUCH!

:D

[BlueTravesty]

Originally posted by joedoe


That's because it probably should be:

collarbone.Really_Hard_Hit = OUCH!

:D

ah-ha! Thank you joedoe, that solves it!

So if you buy my "special" version of Visual Basic (only $100... and I had to disguise it as standard MS-Wordpad to keep it out of terrorist hands) and down a couple bottles of dimetapp on an emtpy stomach you'll DEFINITELY see what I'm talking about.

That would make one of us at least :(

[Lowlynobody]

My perception/point of view ain't the same as everyone Merry and as I have not seen the said attempt by said 260 lb Dan Severn in said UFC I was asking for a clarification of said comment regarding the usefullness said technique. My sarcasim metre was turned off cos I'm just a big stup'd head.

Puh.