stance training

[AndyC]

hello,

I was wondering what is the best way to improve basic stances. I train in CLF so basic stances for me would be say-ping ma, dew ma, tau/gwai ma, hun ma & deen ma.

I'm wanting to train so that i can hold my stances for longer and lower. So what would be the most effective way to achieve this?

[fa_jing]

Front Squat
Overhead Squat
Back Squat

Deep

[redtornado]

I have been doing alot of work on the legs.
Squats like he said, also running and leg curls
The knees will feel it the lower you go!!

Keep in touch!

[IronFist]

Originally posted by fa_jing
Front Squat
Overhead Squat
Back Squat

Deep

Not really. Those exercises develop strength through the ROM, but won't do much to increase the endurance required to hold stances.

[Pork Chop]

Not to imply that you were saying that weights wouldn't help Iron, but...

He did say "lower" and increasing the strength through the whole range of motion may allow him to go down further.

Plus, if you're legs are stronger, wouldn't that mean that your bodyweight was a lower percentage of your 1RM and therefor easier to hold?

I've known people who did a lot of a$$ to the ground stances and could nail a perfectly thighs-parallel horse first time, no problem.

I've also known folks who were kung fu people first and improved their stances (depth & relative ease- which helped endurance) by adding freeweighted squats.

[rubthebuddha]

doing deep squats and such may help with the flexibility, but stance work is typically held for a long time. doing ROM exercises won't really increase endurance at that specific angle of knee bend, which is what stances generally work.

[Pork Chop]

Yah I'm talking more of percieved effort rather than endurance.

[Ford Prefect]

Simply said, the best way to get stronger in stance work is to practice your stances more.

[norther practitioner]

Either way I think it would be good advice to do all of the above, because it all helps....

Moving from low stance to low stance well in a form is a function of all of that plus good flexibility.

[abobo]

Have you all seen this (http://www.dragondoor.com/pdf/157.pdf) routine? I've played around with it a bit, and like the idea.

[AndyC]

hey abobo the stances in that pdf are exactly the same as CLF's basic stances :)

What do people think about combing weight and stance work together. Say for example the same routine as in the pdf which abobo posted except you also rest a barbell across the back of your shoulders.

Also what amount of time do you peeps think is good to hold a stance before making the transition to the next stance?

Fa_jing can you explain those exercises you mentioned as i'm not very knowledgeable when it comes to exercise. I know of the normal squat but that's about it :D

[WinterPalm]

AndyC, the best way to better your stances is to do them a lot. It's the only thing that will make them better. Squats will carry over to things like kicks and mobility, as will participation in any sport, but there's a reason squats aren't on most or any traditional martial arts curriculums.
If you are getting bored in your stances you can mix them up, work on transitions, make up transitions, and so forth.
Practice punches, kicks, etc, in the stances and they will improve.
Good Luck

[Toby]

AndyC, the normal squat is the back squat. Front squat is with the bar across your upper chest, sorta like the end of the clean in the Olympic lift clean and jerk. You would've seen that on TV, where they sort of pause with the bar in front across their chest and the arms supporting it. Overhead squat is with the bar vertically above your head with your arms straight holding it up, sorta like a combination military press and squat.

[SanSoo Student]

Go running and then do stance training afterwards. Thats what I do when I don't want to hold a horse stance forever. It seems to have similar effects for me, as it is building leg muscles.

[blooming lotus]

I missed the pdf because apparently some jerk off has loosed a virus clinging itself to attatchments and I'm kinda scared to open anything...but the bar sounds good :D

was doing a crazy deep mabu today and came low out of parallel but felt it hard core in magnus abductor..so held it , gripped feet/toes, pushed thighs outward, went for an isometric and feeling pretty good...what do you think...could sound like cheating, but I liked it :p

[IronFist]

Just because you can squat a large amount of weight doesn't mean you can hold a stance for a long time.

Squatting 300lbs takes what, 2 seconds maybe? Holding a horse stance for 5 minutes takes 5 minutes. You get better at what you train for. SAID (Specific Adaptation to Imposed Demands). Sprinting doesn't make you a better marathoner and running long distances doesn't make you better at sprinting.

If you want holding stance to feel "lighter," then I guess practice holding those stances with weights or something :confused:

[blooming lotus]

:rolleyes: .....isn't that what i jus said










;)

[Ford Prefect]

IF,

Stances holding weights had crossed my mind as well until I thought about your stabalizers which would most likely fatigue well before your prime movers. Recipe for injury if you ask me.

[No_Know]

"I'm wanting to train so that i can hold my stances for longer and lower. So what would be the most effective way to achieve this?"

Assume the stance with good posture. Stand...That's all~

Think weight distribution, toe point direction knee in/out balance, torso lean, head faceing, head tilt, shoulders lining-up, where the bends in your spine are, where your eyes are looking...and the like.

[IronFist]

Originally posted by Ford Prefect
IF,

Stances holding weights had crossed my mind as well until I thought about your stabalizers which would most likely fatigue well before your prime movers. Recipe for injury if you ask me.

Yeah, I wasn't too sure about that, hence the "I guess" and ":confused:" in my reply :)

But I suppose it wouldn't be too much of a problem if you used really light weight, like 5 or 10lbs total. I didn't mean like holding a horse stance with a barbell full of weight or anything.

But then again with the stabilizers... what if you're holding your stance against force or something in a fight? You'd want them to be able to take the extra weight, right?

I dunno.

[Chief Fox]

I read this in Thomas Kurz book. "Stretching Scientifically"

When in a low horse stance try to "pinch the ground" with your legs. Meaning try to stand yourself upright by sliding your feet together. This focuses on the muscles of the inner thigh.

[fa_jing]

Low squatting (Vertical back varieties) with heavy weight stretches your hips out. Using a lot of weight can be helpful for forcing the legs apart at that angle that stretches your hips. As well, loading the spine at different angles will help your posture.

He asked for supplementary weight lifting exercises to improve the stances. So I am thinking something which is not emphasizing endurance, rather strength, especially in the low range of motion. The endurance piece is already covered by the stance holds.

[blooming lotus]

Originally posted by fa_jing
Low squatting (Vertical back varieties) with heavy weight stretches your hips out. Using a lot of weight can be helpful for forcing the legs apart at that angle that stretches your hips. As well, loading the spine at different angles will help your posture.



ACCORDING TO PRINCIPALS OF BOTH YOGA AND PILATES, THAT MAKES ALOT OF SENSE.....

He asked for supplementary weight lifting exercises to improve the stances. So I am thinking something which is not emphasizing endurance, rather strength, especially in the low range of motion. The endurance piece is already covered by the stance holds.

WHAT ABOUT SOMETHING FOR QUADS AND HAMMIES LIKE WIEGHTED CALF RAISES AND REVERSING FOR A WEIGHTED GLUTE CONTACTION..LIKE ON A NORDELUS....AND MAYBE SOME PULLEYED INNER AB AND ADDUCTOR WORK?? MAYBE EVEN SOME CIRCULAR WORK ON A TIGHT PULLEY ?

[rubthebuddha]

WHAT ABOUT SOMETHING FOR QUADS AND HAMMIES LIKE WIEGHTED CALF RAISES :(

[IronFist]

Weighted CALF raises don't work quads or hammies :)

[blooming lotus]

maybe I'm just calling it something else.. too tired to care ..sorry

[blooming lotus]

ok...a couple of workout sesions, a guarana hit and a multi later..i'm functioning again


I have no idea why I said calf raise ......lol...what I meant was a seated lower leg extension on a nordelous....still don't know what it's called...but that's what I meant...sorry ..my bad ;)