ip chun certified instructors

[foolinthedeck]

hi.
how come the www.ipchun.org website lists only one sifu in america as a certified instructor of ip chun wing chun? Yip Pui Terence?? its strand as it is that the UK has 3 - Michael Tse, Shaun Rawcliffe and Colin Ward.

any thoughts?

[Atleastimnotyou]

maybe only one sifu wanted to pay for the certificate.

[JAFO]

I thought sifu Samuel Kwok (UK) was a Ip Chun student as well.

Ip Ching has been teaching since the mid-90's, but he's the one with all the U.S. affiliations. Ip Chun has been teaching since the late '60s/early '70s, but does indeed only have the one sifu (Yip Pui) here in the U.S.. How's that for irony?

Ever notice how different the forms are between the brothers?

[foolinthedeck]

atleast..
true, maybe. but is this your opinion of the reason or just a possibility? i dont know if you have to pay dollars for that cert, maybe just discipline, do you know?

jafo..
sam kwok is just ip ching as far as i know. maybe stuartm or someone can correct me if not..

so what is ip chings website? does he have a similiar page of certified worldwide instructors - sam being the main man in the UK? why do you think that there are fewer cert. ip chun instructors? higher standards or just more closed minded perhaps?

i'm shocked to have had 140 views and 2 replies.

can i ask another question - since so few people seem to have a lineage through ip chun, what do those who dont have him as a sigong think of him? (like do u rate his wing chun etc?)

[Brithlor]

Can anyone describe some of the differences of Chun's wing chun and Chings?

Better yet, anyone got 2 videos of both of them doing a form?

[hunt1]

Sam was Yip Chun senior student for many many years until a few years ago. Sam was in hong kong and spending to much time training with Yip Ching. Yip Chun through a hissy fit and threw Sam out of his organization and deleted all mention of Sam.

Colin and Shawn met Yip Chun through Sam.

[hunt1]

Vids wont tell you much. Yip Chun teaches plain vanilla forms. Yip Chings forms have much more energy and body usage demonstrated. Content is the same other than order in Bil Fee and a couple of sections Yip Ching changed.

As for skill many say Yip Chings WC is combat Wc while Yip Chuns is only good for Chi Sao and games. Then again Duncan Leung likes Yip Chuns WC and thinks Yip Chings is bad. All depends on the eyes and standards you use to judge.

[kj]

Originally posted by Brithlor
Can anyone describe some of the differences of Chun's wing chun and Chings?

Better yet, anyone got 2 videos of both of them doing a form?

Some of Steve Lee Swift's videos have Ip Ching and Ip Chun performing some demonstrations. You can check his website (http://www.swiftwingchun.org/academy/academy.html) to see what's currently available. You might also contact Swift directly (by mail or by phone) to inquire if he has any additional material to offer which has not been publicly advertised.

Regards,
- Kathy Jo

[old jong]

I like Steve Lee Swift...He does his own sound effects!...;)

[kj]

Originally posted by old jong
I like Steve Lee Swift...He does his own sound effects!...;)

Ha ha. Sometimes, I too found myself making sound effects when I used to train in his class - fun. :D

Regards,
- kj

[[Censored]]

Didn't Ip Ching do a Biu Jee demonstration on the VTAA conference VCD?

[foolinthedeck]

oh look, again we love to judge better and worse...
if you studied karate for 100 years with mindful awareness it would be better than any wing chun... its just a different part of the elephant, when you have done wing chun for 30 years plus, it doesnt matter who you studied with, it just matters where you are NOW. i have every respect for every one who has put in the time in any lineage or system,

all i'm interested in is the lack of ip chun cert instructors. it doesnt matter what you think of ip chuns wing chun, but why you think he doesnt have so many cert instructors - with reference to the hissy fit, would you say that ip chun has a reputation for being flippant and hot tempered? that could explain alot.

what is ip chings official website?

[lawrenceofidaho]

Anyone thinking of buying videos from Sifu Swift?

-I bought two of them last year, and was dissapointed. One of them was featuring GM Ip Chun and listed on Sifu Swift's webpage as a two hour tape, and the other, featuring GM Ip Ching, was listed on the webpage as a one hour tape. Each was priced at $50. (Sounds fair, right?)

The first thing I was shocked by, is when I ordered them, I was charged $19 shipping and handling for two VHS tapes. (I can't imagine how that is justified). Then, when I recieved them, found the "two hour" tape to be 45 minutes long (and filled with needless repetition to stretch time, at that), and the "one hour" tape to be only 30 minutes long.

Especially considering the high price of his videos, I regret my purchase from Sifu Swift.

Master Yip Pui (Terence Yip) has some videos of GM Ip Chun available on his webpage which I may buy in the future:

http://www.yipwingchun.com/videos.html

(I just thought anyone thinking about spending their hard-earned dollars might appreciate knowing about this.)

-Lawrence

[chris]

Censored wrote:
Didn't Ip Ching do a Biu Jee demonstration on the VTAA conference VCD?

---Yes.


foolinthedeck wrote:

what is ip chings official website?

----http://www.wckfc.com/

[azwingchun]

Actually, that is Sifu Ron Heimberger's website, Ip Ching's is http://www.ip-ching.com/ . ;)

[chris]

>>Actually, that is Sifu Ron Heimberger's website, Ip Ching's is http://www.ip-ching.com/

John,
I used to train in a school that was part of Ip Ching's Wiing Chun Association and we were told that that www.wckfc.com was the official website for Ip Ching Wing Chun Athletic Association. The Ip Ching Student Union site was never offically mentioned at the school- though I seem to recall someone saying that Student Union site was a reaction to the extent of Master Heimburger's presence on the wckfc site - I don't know if that is in fact the truth though.

By the way sifu is an actual title used in Ip Ching's organization - Heimberger's title of Master is actually higher than sifu in the hierarchy ofg the association. For example, Tony Massengill who is a student of Heimberger's has the title sifu in the association.

[teazer]

Originally posted by JAFO
Ip Ching has been teaching since the mid-90's, but he's the one with all the U.S. affiliations. Ip Chun has been teaching since the late '60s/early '70s, but does indeed only have the one sifu (Yip Pui) here in the U.S.. How's that for irony?

Not really. Different people based themselves in different continents for starters. Then they have different criteria for who they let teach in their name.

Keep in mind how long Yip Ching's affiliated instructors trained specifically with him before they were added to his association.

[teazer]

Originally posted by lawrenceofidaho
Anyone thinking of buying videos from Sifu Swift?

-I bought two of them last year, and was disappointed.......
Especially considering the high price of his videos, I regret my purchase from Sifu Swift.

I have many of them. Quality of filming varied quite a bit. Generally the YC seminar tapes had the worst audio & fiming. About the same quality as the VTAA cd's.
"Original WC" is great however. The WC Fighter series are seriously packed with info with reasonable production. The others vary.

[Phil Redmond]

Speaking of the VTAA VCD's, I've often wondered why the TWC demo was edited in the VCD.
I have a copy of a tape made by someone in the audience of the complete speech made by Sifu William Cheung, the TWC empty hand forms, plus a demonstration of cross arm chi sau.

[teazer]

Originally posted by Phil Redmond
Speaking of the VTAA VCD's, I've often wondered why the TWC demo was edited in the VCD.
I have a copy of a tape made by someone in the audience of the complete speech made by Sifu William Cheung, the TWC empty hand forms, plus a demonstration of cross arm chi sau.

Seems a shame. From what I remember there was plenty of other stuff could've been edited instead!!

[Phil Redmond]

Teazer, I'm not touching that one with a 12 foot kwan. LMAO :rolleyes:

[teazer]

Originally posted by Phil Redmond
Teazer, I'm not touching that one with a 12 foot kwan. LMAO :rolleyes:

:D

[azwingchun]

I don't know but it seems that you are kinda offeneded by me giving Ip Ching's true website other than Sifu Ron Heimberger's. But when it seems to be more practical to have done so, since the wckfc is more about Sifu Ron Heimberger's Council than it is about Ip Ching. As far as being the official site, I never heard this though, Sifu Heimberger had this site before he joined Grandmaster Ip Ching. I will check on this, but I believe it to be true.

Master...Grandmaster etc.....I don't know what people call themselves amongst their own members, though out of respect I referred to him as Sifu (Kung fu teacher, or kung fu father). By the way some schools take this title as Master amongst their own organizations, some schools throw the term about as a vague representation for just an instructor. I really hope you weren't offended by my terminology or that I gave a website other than your Sifu's sifu's site?!?!?! If so, no hram was meant. ;)

[chris]

Hi John,

>>>I don't know but it seems that you are kinda offeneded by me giving Ip Ching's true website other than Sifu Ron Heimberger's.

Sorry if I gave you that impression - I was not offended. I was just trying to point out that I wasn't convinced that your information was correct and why. I am no longer training at the Ip Ching affilated school - in fact I no longer training Ip Man WC - I now train at a YKS school.

>>>>As far as being the official site, I never heard this though, Sifu Heimberger had this site before he joined Grandmaster Ip Ching. I will check on this, but I believe it to be true.

I could be wrong but I never thought of the wckc.com site as being Heimberger's site, or even primarily about Heimberger. If you go to www.wckfc.com it says that it is the offical news page of the Ip Ching Wing Chun Athletic Association (ICWCAA) & the WCKFC - then when you enter the site it says that it is the offical site of the ICWCAA. The other North American representitves of Ip Ching such as Eric Li & Sam Chan have pages and articles on the site or linked to the site. Schools with Ip Ching lineages that do not include Heimberger are linked to the site. As for Heimberger having the wckfc site before he hooked up with Ip Ching - I have no idea about that one way or the other. I actually think that there is more information on Ip Ching at the wckfc site than at the other site.

>>>I really hope you weren't offended by my terminology or that I gave a website other than your Sifu's sifu's site?!?!?!

Master Heimberger was never my direct teacher and in fact I have never even met him. And I never thought your use of sifu was meant as anything but respectful. When I commented on your use of the title sifu I was pointing out that Ip Ching's organization employs specific titles for people at different levels in the organization, sifu being one of those titles. Heimberger has a specific title, Master, that was bestowed upon him by Ip Ching and it is his official title in Ip Ching's organization.

As you point out other schools use sifu as master, and I think master may the best English translation of sifu - afterall that is how it usually appears in the English subtitles in kung fu movies
:)

After all this talk of Ip Ching I might as well get in a plug in for the school I currently go to :
http://www.cantonwingchun.com/ ;)

Regards,
Chris

[azwingchun]

To be honest I couldn't tell if you were offeneded or not, I read your post at 5:30 am and may have interpreted it wrong. LOL!!!! Sorry if that was the case.
After speaking to my kung fu brother I was correct, he did have the site before he was with Grandmaster Ip Ching. He began training with Grandmaster Ip Ching in 1996 (I believe).
Nice chatting with you though. ;)

[An jie]

It was not a hissy fit that resulted in Kwok Sifu's removal from Master Ip Chun's Organization. That was Master Kwok's doing and it will not take much research to uncover why that occurred.
As for the low number of instructor's certified by Master Chun, this has nothing to do with a certificate fee and has everything to do with the quality requirement. In order to represent a high level master, one has to have reached a high level as well. Let's remember that these standards are not based on American/Western views, but based on the very cultures that intrigues us to the degree that we are compelled to study, in depth, the arts that result from these cultures.:D

[Paul T England]

bollicks!

Its all about organisation, power and money. Not blaming Ip Chun as its probably more to do with the people around him.

I respect many of the certified Ip Chun people but some highly rated (by Ip Chun himself) wing chun people don't get a look in. Even the Genology of Wing Chun books are all about money (Thats what make sthe world go round and I understand that to publish the book the must cough up the $$$) Many highly skilled people are not in them either. Ip Chun has had load sof students who are not certified and many grand students who are excellent. Funny how many of Ip Chun students once studied with an ex student!!!

Whoops, fell off my high horse.........

[tjwingchun]

It was not a hissy fit that resulted in Kwok Sifu's removal from Master Ip Chun's Organization. That was Master Kwok's doing and it will not take much research to uncover why that occurred.

It was a result of Sifu taking students to train with Yip Ching in Hong Kong without first telling Sigung and then Michael Tse stoking the flames of unrest, a family affair that was sorted years ago! After Yip Chun announced his retirement from travelling abroad to do seminars Sifu became closer to Yip Ching, though he still maintains his close relationship and contact with Yip Chun.



As for the low number of instructor's certified by Master Chun, this has nothing to do with a certificate fee and has everything to do with the quality requirement. In order to represent a high level master, one has to have reached a high level as well. Let's remember that these standards are not based on American/Western views, but based on the very cultures that intrigues us to the degree that we are compelled to study, in depth, the arts that result from these cultures.:D

Yip Chun is my Sigung and I have been teaching professionally since 1983, I appeared in the "Original Wing Chun" video and had responsibility for writing for him and he got me onstage at the opening if the Yip Man museum in Foshan and introduced me as "Master Trevor" but I am still not a certified Instructor, but then again I have not asked to be! I know Yip Chun respects my Wing Chun, that is enough for me and he also said that the I cooked rice when he stayed at my home while up for a seminar in Newcastle was the best he tasted in the UK!:D

So my Wing Chun may not be certified but my rice is!!!!

How I describe the difference between the two brothers has sort of been hinted at already, Yip Man was the product of a scholar (Leung Bik) and a fighter (Chan Wah Soon) I see the two personalities of the brothers as almost a splitting again of those qualities, Yip Chun has gone down a more theoretical route whereas Yip Ching more practical. Either way can be easily expanded to cover the other.

How they approach Wing Chun is not really important as it is THEIR method, for anyone wishing to learn Wing Chun it is how YOU want to develop as an individual that is vital, learn from both and as many different sources as possible, make your own decisions and follow what is the esscence of Wing Chun, THE TRUTH.