qigong from a book

[bung bo]

to all and any of you that are pretty proficient in qigong. after practicing qigong for a while (got where you could do the movements right, actually understood your objective, and recieved results). have you studied a form of qigong from a book or video and then became successfull in it (reaped the benefits)? i just would like to know.

[backbreaker]

I have. I've been doing Dayan qigong and Damo qigong for 5-6 years. I bought the book " The Children of the Law of one and the Lost Teachings of Atlantis" by Jon Peniel. I immediately after reading the book received a new very good mental qigong ability, but I don't wanna say too much because I don't know if it's the same for everyone. I practice their Yoga and meditations, laying meditation for 2 hours sometimes, and their music and meditation cd's are really good.

http://www.atlantis.to/books/atlantis-book/bookhome.htm

http://www.atlantis.to


This book is also important

http://www.atlantis.to/Gro-book/GR-bookcover.htm

[backbreaker]

Holy ****. It's not a book but I found an excellent site. $35 per video. That's a steal. Some of these forms are pretty advanced or high intermediate, I think these videos are very good, but I don't know if they contain the meditation of each level that go along with the movement forms. Check out the chest opening aromatic qigong clips, how they go from prayer position to opening the chest in the four directions. My theory is that in the original qigong technique, people would stand in a circle and circulate the energy in a wheel around the circle. So, in solo practice alot of forms start out with kunlun bagua circle walking. Bagua is possibly just another way to write down a mandala.

http://www.threegeese.com/wildgoose.html

http://www.threegeese.com/NewFiles/wg9demo.html



also I have the dvd at this site on video. It is very good and useful to learn

http://www.damo-qigong.net/guasha/dayan.htm





A little info on the style

http://www.ru.ac.za/societies/qi/wildgoose/#move

http://www.chinaqigong.net/english/qgsk/ymj.htm

http://www.possiblesociety.org/dayanqigong.html

[backbreaker]

and of course this is priceless. Real high level qigong and meditation if I ever saw it.

http://www.falundafa.org

http://www.falundafa.org/eng/media.htm

http://www.clearwisdom.net

[Repulsive Monkey]

Personally I would definitely advise aginst learning a qigong from a book in all circumstances as a book can and never will provide the accuracy that a face-to-face teacher can provide.
Certain aspects of training need the teacher.

The fact is, is that not all qigongs are the same and if you feel you are proficient in one qigong this does not mean that will have the tools to become advanced or even get the basic undertsanding of another especially from a book or video or website.

Please be sensible Bung Bo and beware of offerings that are other than a teacher in the same room as you. Also you may be aware of a big thread debating the pro's and con's about mixing up too many different Qigong systems and their obvious inherent dangers, you will notice soon who agrees with this and who does not. If you have a complete qigong system that works why bother go chasing after others?

Backbreaker, I had a look at an advert for that Atlantis book, and to be honest it sounds totally awful, and dubious.
The Internal classics of Taoism always says don't give up the near for the far, the plain for the exotic the simple for the complicated.

Between obvious teachings of Taoism and more far fetched convoluted teachings, plain and simple always is a winning formula for me.

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

At the risk of ridicule and flame i suggest that QiGong is much more the effect of intent and belief than specific movement.. given the vast sets of choreography that are noted as high-quality QiGong, the almost limitless movements and postures ascribed to QiGong, Taiji and Yoga, it is apparent that the common vehicle is the intent and belief in the chosen system that effects the results.. i do largely believe that one of the most effective methods of training the intent and belief is through guided sets of movement, breath and posture work by direct instruction from one that has credible experience and results in this field.. Often, people cannot accept the notion that they are already in control of themselves (however poorly they manage that control).. most people find it more believable when they are instructed in a complex and detailed system, they figure there must be some necessary "mystical" work to be done in order to achieve the phenomenal results.. while i remain convinced that given the proper circumstances and sincere efforts, anyone "can" manipulate their "vital energies" through will and intent.. (but, that's just me.. take it with a grain of salt)..

Be well..

[dwid]

Wow, TaiChiBob, you're a braver man than I. I was recently inclined to post a similar statement to the one you just made on another thread and didn't do it because I didn't feel up to dealing with what I thought the likely fallout would be.

Props to you.

I also find it interesting how similar many of the movements I've encountered in different qi gong sets are to some common joint flexibility exercises. Take for example, the exercises in the Pavel Tsatsouline book Superjoints. He cites many of these exercises as going back 100 years or more as part of some European physical fitness routines, but I immediately noticed many movements that are identical to those in some qi gong sets I have learned. Perhaps the movements are sometimes for the purpose of relaxing the body to make the mental part of the process go more smoothly. Just a thought...

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

Thanks, but.. there's a fine line between bravery and blunder.. sometimes i can't see the line.. ;)

Be well....

[backbreaker]

DOn't listen to Repulsive Monkey at all. He makes alot of statements but rarely offers anything of value. These are treasures, and don't let some TCM guy who wants people to be dependant on experts tell you any different. If there was aproblem learning from a video I don't think they would put these priceless methods on video. WHat is presented here is safe , and many qigongs are not so great. These ones are. If you like your Yang Jwing Ming books, and Waysun Liao stuff, of your Mantak Chia books( not that I'm saying there is anything wrong with these methods, and I don't know them), or your TCM theory fine, but the sites listed I listed are the best ones. FInd something better then, but there is no such thing. AT your finger tips, with a small amount of money I present to you secrets that were never made public ever in history. This coming from a guy who thinks falun dafa is made up and stolen. Stolen from where? Styles that were not publicly taught. THE INTRUDUCTION SEQUENCE SHOWS WHERe FALUN GONG COMES FROM, in indtoduction sequence there is a more advanced sitting meditation that is plainly and obviously not made up, it's called introduction sequence.

http://www.falundafa.org/eng/media.htm

There is no valid criticism yet of falundafa. To me, Wild goose, Damo gong, Quan Yin, falundafa, real lineage chen taijiquan ( not the "oh yeah, we do that internal stuff too, of course me know the internal aspects and the meditations) and the Children of the LAw of One all confirm each other. So what is so bad about it?

http://www.meditation-techniques.net

Although they only have 17 thousand hits, they have reset their counter at some point, at one time their count was in the millions

IMO there are many different methods appearing to be different which in fact have the same purpose and result, but I do not think qigong is all say the placeabo effect, but the mental attitude is most important, and I don't think there is a better method to cultivate intent than this:

http://www.atlantis.to/music2/sound-therapy-music-therapy.htm

[dwid]

You're a nut.

:)

[backbreaker]

I can't help thinking what I think, really based on my experiences in qigong.

[dwid]

so you're saying qi gong made you a nut?

if so, maybe your very existence supports repulsive monkey's arguments...

[backbreaker]

You really think TCM qigong is better than what I link? Geesh

[dwid]

I'm just naturally skeptical of things with too many unnecessary bells and whistles attached. Falun gong and the aliens, for example, or the stuff you're claiming comes from Atlantis - it is simply unnecessary to abandon common sense so completely to pursue something as simple as qi gong, so anyone that asks you to do so is asking an awful lot. To put it simply, it is the first expectation when you enter a cult that you not think about what they tell you the way you would normally think about things. By creating a reality which is an exception to the rule you are being set up to believe whatever you are told, no matter how far-fetched.

[backbreaker]

You are the brainwashed one; by your culture. You don't know much about what you are talking about if you think anyone I listed is at all about people not thinking, or worshipping a guru, or beleiving anything, and that means your so called common sense, created by your cultural cult and because you beleive everything you are told. You can find others to worship and follow blindly. Some spiritual teachers actually tell their students wrong things as a test, to see if the students will follow blindly, a true teacher does not want students who beleive whatever they are told, and that includes what your culture cult tells you. In fact, you have it backwards. Look at my links, they are independant and not related in any way , and yet they are.

ANd again, there is no mention of aliens in any of Li Hongzhi's teachings. And if he said in an interview that he beleives there are other planets with life or even the means to travel in space, I have no problem with that, or that he knows from the ancient teachings of falundafa, that's also fine. Falun gong has nothing to do with aliens though and there is nothing about aliens in the teachings.

ANd Jon Peniels teachings really aren't at all about atlantis, that is just where the tradition is said to be from, passed on through generations

[dwid]

You have no idea what defines a cult, which is clear from your assertions. Cult and culture are different.

Another big part of indoctrination into a cult is that members are encouraged to dissociate themselves from those that criticize the cult or the beliefs. This is often veiled in admonitions like "avoid people in your life who put out negative energy." This serves to both cement the beliefs of the cult-member and to bond him or her more tightly to fellow cult members as social ties to those outside the cult either degrade naturally as a result of people no longer being able to relate to the individual or by efforts of the individual to avoid such "negative energy."

Whether you have been indoctrinated or not, you behave like someone who has been brainwashed. You never argue logically with anyone. You simply re-iterate the same subjective points over and over again.

If you have not been brainwashed, maybe it is because you lacked the necessary equipment...

[backbreaker]

Whatever, you simply don't know what you are talking about. You brought up cults, and for no reason. You have it wrong, I argue points, but you have no knowledge to to say anything. You are the ones who say the same things over and over, which is really nothing. Again, there is nothing here cultish, nothing here encourages anyone to avoid anyone. But to help people and face them, and want criticism to improve yourself, because there is nothing to fear for legitmate masters. You are brainwashed by your culture and you don't have an understanding to base an opinion on other that what you know from your cult-ure

[dwid]

Sounds like you should really give up on us.

[backbreaker]

Huh?:confused: You don't like me? You want me to go away? Who are you? some wannabe expert? I give you treasures, you give me smart ass comments.

[dwid]

I am the stinging glove of logic slapping you in the face.

[dwid]

ANd Jon Peniels teachings really aren't at all about atlantis, that is just where the tradition is said to be from, passed on through generations

Please explain to me how a tradition can be passed on through the generations from a mythical society that may or may not be based on a lost civilization?

Assuming there was at some point a referent for Atlantis, how does a lost civilization transmit its culture through generations to now?

This is the kind of thing I'm talking about. When there are so many qi gong traditions around without all this new age garbage attached to them, why subscribe to something so idiotic when it is unnecessary?

[backbreaker]

What other qigongs. They don't grow on trees. The tradition is passed from teacher to student, and sometimes in monasteries, simple enough, the teachings of falun gong confirm an ancient past in pre history in an advanced civilization, there is no need to subscibe to it, but it is clearly recorded in unbroken traditions here. Like I said before, stay with your acually convuluted and made up modern qigong and meditation, reflexology, acupuncture, bio feedback stuff, but that is not as good as the real stuff.

[dwid]

Again you refuse to answer a simple question, how could a lost civilization pass on a tradition. The whole idea of a "lost" civilization is that it is gone. Where is the lineage? Who did the Atlanteans pass their qi gong to that preserved it until this guy supposedly found it?

It's absolutely ridiculous.

If you believe that, I've got some secret qi gong from the Easter Islanders and a special meditation that I learned from a giant that lived in a castle in the clouds at the top of a very tall beanstalk. You can buy either one for just $19.95.

By the way, since I am clearly a product of an inferior culture, what culture is it that consider yourself a part of? Atlantis? Seriously, do you attribute your perspective to asian culture? If so, which asian culture, specifically? If not, then what?

[backbreaker]

It's not the same. If you read Jon Peniels teachings, you will find that in this particular case it was passed on in a monastery in Tibet which looks on a map to me, close to china, originally of survivors who went to different parts of the world. In other parts of the world also, by the Children of the Law of one, and this is confirmed by Li Honghzhi's Law wheel's great (universal) Law teachings. Now these methods are obviously real, so unless you have real criticisms of the methods or teachings, proof that they are ripped off from others, then you have nothing to say. So far you have given empty opinions with no base in anything, because there is no basis to say these methods are fake at all. There is only confirmation in many other methods, falun gong cannot possibly be fake

I am unbiased and unaffected by culture to the best of my ability.

[dwid]

I am unaffected by culture to the best of my ability.

That's absurd. Guess what, language is an element of culture, and the language you are taught has a huge effect on how you perceive the world. What is important to a culture is systematized in its language. There are many other cultural elements that are no doubt formative in your development, but what's the point. Your idiocy is so profound that it borders on brilliance. You've so completely insulated yourself in your beliefs that nothing anyone can say will make you open your eyes.

"there is no basis to say these methods are fake at all. There is only confirmation in many other methods, falun gong cannot possibly be fake" is the statement of someone who has abandoned all critical thinking.

[backbreaker]

You don't know anything, you can't think critically when you don't know. Falun gong is almost for sure real, look at the INTRODUCTION SEQUENCE, there are very similar seated methods in other styles like CHen Taijiquan, Damo gong, Quan Yin, except that FALUN GONG IS POSSIBLY THE BEST AND MOST ADVANCED

[dwid]

"falun gong cannot possibly be fake" is a far cry from "Falun gong is almost for sure real"

Further, if the first sequence is so similar to the other methods you mentioned, in what way is Falun Gong more advanced?

Chen Taiji has a relatively well-documented history, leastwise in comparison to Falun. In light of this, the similarity is more likely the result of Falun Gong borrowing from Chen Taiji than of Chen Taiji being a less pure tributary of the same river as Falun, is it not?

[backbreaker]

Originally posted by dwid
"falun gong cannot possibly be fake" is a far cry from "Falun gong is almost for sure real"


Not really that different, I mean that it is absolutely real, and is plain to see

Further, if the first sequence is so similar to the other methods you mentioned, in what way is Falun Gong more advanced?

Because it just is, it's more powerful and more complete than any of the other similar methods

Chen Taiji has a relatively well-documented history, leastwise in comparison to Falun. In light of this, the similarity is more likely the result of Falun Gong borrowing from Chen Taiji than of Chen Taiji being a less pure tributary of the same river as Falun, is it not?

Except for that falun gong is the same but more in depth, more advanced level than the Chen Taijiquan seated methods or Damo gong. So no, falun gong is much more likely older as a cultivation method like other cultivation methods. And I have already said these things were taught mainly in secret even Taiji, and while I think there are some real records somewhere of the chen family clan, you can't go by peiced together histories accumulated by historians; you won't get an understanding from history , you have to listen to what the poeple themselves say about it, because nobody knows it publically



Bottom line, I don't know alot of history, or the intricate details, because I don't beleive it. But you can't go by Taiji history based on historians findings, pretty much irrelevant, because Taiji is obviously connected to both qigong and martial arts which go back ****her than Taiji or even history maybe, no? When you practice these real methods history becomes useless because what you practice IS the history

Basically the fact you think falun gong could be stolen from Taiji shows you don't understand the subtle things, because these are not mish mashes at all. There are subtle differences, while still obviously related. Seated meditation of Taiji is obviously similar and connected to falun gong, but falun gong is more advanced.

So how are qigong methods so unrelated and different from each other?

[backbreaker]

A simple, basic qigong with an obvious Yoga connection. Go to the art of developing energy link, then click on 18 lohan hands. That is Yoga

http://www.wahnam.com/TheShaolinWahnamInstitute.htm

The shaolin 18 Lohan hands. Is it not accurate that there is a kungfu/Yoga connection. Is this not accepted as true?

Here is a video showing that Taiji principles, spiralling, qigong, and martial arts are very old. This form has martial arts in it, I don't know if it exactly has " one finger Zen" but it has something very similar



http://www.threegeese.com/NewFiles/wg8demo.html

So how are Dao or buddha schools so different and so unrelated? Hmmmmm... Oh Yeah, these are just a bunch of charlatan businessmen ripping each other off, cut and pasting stuff:rolleyes:

[backbreaker]

The reason kungfu is not as effective as in the past, is because people are not standing on one finger with their feet in the air lightly resting on a wall meditation each night. That is why in all kungfu the fingers are so important, not due to some experimentaion in the battlefield. I show you the original Lohan hands and you don't see.

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..



I give you treasures, you give me smart ass comments.
I show you the original Lohan hands and you don't see. ...

What you offer is your opinion of your experience, both of which are prejudiced by your preferences and inclinations, prejudiced by your standards and the available evidence in your area.. It is noteworthy that you assume that you have discovered some ancient wisdom that surpasses all others.. Differing wisdoms and differing styles affect differing people in differing ways.. Conceptually, your point of view would be more acceptable as conversation/dialogue than the rhetoric of supremacy as currently presented..

You have a defensible point regarding the current state of Kung Fu.. You give an example that "you" find valuable according to your standards.. another point valuable by someone else's standards might be.. current Kung Fu suffers from the distractions of current society's marketing of nonsensical nonessential notions of entertainment.. or, too many people blabbing about it and not "doing" it.. etc, etc... The point is that you make a common beginners' mistake, your new-found is universal and should be everyone's truth.. it is simply "your" truth, not necessarily valid for others.. You would do well to consider that others feel like you do.. when told they are wrong, they get defensive.. it is always better to just present the evidence that supports your beliefs, than judging others and letting emotions interfere with good dialogue..

Whatever was practiced in the past, whatever life offered to our ancestors.. is not what is available today.. Much was lost in the past due to exclusivity, the unyielding assertion that "mine is better than yours", and the secret keeping.. Today we are fortunate to be able to train in many arts, to evaluate their value and personalize our individual inclinations with what works best for us.. any of it that has merit will mature into a usable personal Art according to the dedication of the practitioner..

After more than 30 years in MA i still evaluate and re-evaluate my current and past experiences, i still seek new experiences and wisdoms.. and, i don't assume that i have "the answer".. and, i am always skeptical of those that feel that they do "have the answer".. i am always open to someone that says "let's check this out", as opposed to "hey, you're wrong and i'm right"..

Be well...

[backbreaker]

Yeah, the thing about " why kungfu is not as effective" is that it is a response to these forums. But if you ever saw the shaolin monk who stood on one finger you'd see his skill and dedication. What I'm saying is that I haven't seen that good ancient real maethods are just available antwhere. I am sure that there are other good methods and have been shown on other forums that even some people here have high qigong abilities; If someone wants to explain them or show a little of them fine, or explain the differences between different styles, but don't blame me for continueing this thread with excellent sites, I am not saying to become monks and live in caves or to only do this style , or only do that style, I am presenting methods I found that people have made available on video, do what you want. And that doesn't change the fact that some people here are totally full of it, and I just can't help but think their methods of alternative healing are probably weak. As you' may have seen on other forums, sometimes agression is the only way, and second, I show you powerful methods which theories and practices are similar, at least I show it the best that I can currently with what is available on the internet. No one else has even done that, just talk and impressions like " the Tao warns not to forsake the near and simple, for the exotic", well exuse me while I vomit. So you say that I have prejudices, and I say that it is the others here and even you with the prejudices of your experiences, because everything is confirmed by my experiences, you are the ones confused by prejudices, I do Yang Taiji, Real Chen Taiji, O mei qigong, Kunlun wild goose, Damo gong, Muay Thai, some qinway, and falun gong, and I'm telling you that they are all connected for the most part with the possible exception of Muay Thai. I tell you these are the best and confirm each other, and you only criticize me with weak arguments and criticisms. So , I present to you the original LOhan hands, where are the better ways that are supposedly all over the place?

[backbreaker]

Originally posted by TaiChiBob
Greetings..


...

After more than 30 years in MA i still evaluate and re-evaluate my current and past experiences, i still seek new experiences and wisdoms.. and, i don't assume that i have "the answer".. and, i am always skeptical of those that feel that they do "have the answer".. i am always open to someone that says "let's check this out", as opposed to "hey, you're wrong and i'm right"..

Be well...

Yeah. Think about it. I'm not the one saying so and so is no good, etc. What I'm saying is that the criteria I have that I judge qigong, indicates that the real versions are the best, not the modern ones, but that is not to say that qigong that is real cannot be modernized for the general public, because most ancient qigongs are now modified for the public anyways to a degree, but hopefully someone has the full systems also, for purposes beyond just the personal cultivation. But I think what you are saying is that not everything is for everybody, and you are right.

It is not my intention to insult or be mean, but at the same time I get more posts out of this, and I'm not gonna just be quiet when people are bashing without reason, or are misinformed or confused.

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..


As you' may have seen on other forums, sometimes agression is the only way, and second, I show you powerful methods which theories and practices are similar, at least I show it the best that I can currently with what is available on the internet. No one else has even done that, just talk and impressions like " the Tao warns not to forsake the near and simple, for the exotic", well exuse me while I vomit. So you say that I have prejudices, and I say that it is the others here and even you with the prejudices of your experiences, because everything is confirmed by my experiences, you are the ones confused by prejudices

Now, normally, i wouldn't even consider responding to this sort of nonsense.. but, i seem to think you might have some redeeming qualities.. Absolutely, everyone has prejudices/preferences, and everyone relates to their own experiences.. but, the phrase "because everything is confirmed by my experiences", is just a tad egocentric if not down-right arrogant.. don't you think we each feel the same way, that our experiences confirm our beliefs.. do you believe that you have some "gift" that allows you to characterize others in such a demeaning way.. sure, there have been some less than friendly posts by others in here, but.. does that empower you to respond in kind?.. is it that easy to get you psyched-out?..

"I tell you these are the best and confirm each other".. Really?.. Are you such an authority that we should abandon years of training and our own experiences because "you" said it was so?.. Now, if you had suggested that you found value in these ways, and offered to share data with us that we use to make our own minds up about such claims, that would be acceptable and even invited.. "No one else has even done that", now, seriously.. there is such a vast wealth of resources on these forums that i can't help but question your ability to comprehend that which is presented for your benefit.. Many people offer a wealth of good data and resources here.. but, you assume that you are privy to "the Best"? Learn to get along, learn to actually communicate, you could be a valuable contributor to threads.. but, not until you learn respect for the opinions of others..

Sincerely,
Bob

[backbreaker]

1. I'm saying if I'm a TKD guy, or a KARATE guy, or a sopposed standardised TCM guy, or in many cases a IMA guy even, I wouldn't have much to say here. All I did was say exactly what you said, saying that I found extreme value in these practices, but others proclaim that it is not so. So, I think you are wannabe experts for the most part on all of these forums.

2. My responses have nothing to do with ego or that I am the best , no. There is a saying by Taiji masters, " It's not me that's good, it's the art that's good". BJJ people I have also heard said that. And IMO there is more incorrect on the internet forums than correct. Mostly it's just talk, with alot of incorrect. I am no longer backing down, or being nice, because I think someone I know could possibly be watching, I don't care. Basically, I just have to wonder about the people on the forums who criticize well respected and known people, how the hell good are these members? They must be true master experts

[backbreaker]

:D :D :D These forums seem to be prone to arguments or trolling. If you want me to stop being arrogant there is a simple formula someone said on another forum, and that is don't feed the trolls. Myself I am not so bothered by trolling, the only people who can bug me are moderators;) But yeah, I don't want to come off as too arrogant or confrontational, or that I won't listen, but...

[Buddy]

<<These forums seem to be prone to arguments or trolling. If you want me to stop being arrogant there is a simple formula someone said on another forum, and that is don't feed the trolls.

Ah, you admit you're a troll. Now you can just admit to being a boob too.

<<Myself I am not so bothered by trolling, the only people who can bug me are moderators

And when your mom gives you a time out.

<<But yeah, I don't want to come off as too arrogant or confrontational, or that I won't listen, but...

There are none so blind as those who will not see.

[backbreaker]

Yang Jwing Ming, B.K. Frantziz, John Painter, Erle Montague, Al Colangelo, Wong Kiew Kit, Li Hongzhi, Mantak Chia, and even people who aren't known in PM, have all been shown as frauds on the internet by warriors , especially at your favorite hangout , and here. Alot of what is said on forums is made up. Now I can't say about everyone of them, and I don't know them, but it is not acceptable that people think they are better than them bacause they do wrestling or spar

[Buddy]

Good to see you've come out of your shell. now if you could just wipe the slime trail behind you...

<<No not at all. WHat I'm saying is that everyone trolls from time to time. I use trolling and so do others. Second, you know my position on Gao fighters vs. the equivalent mindboxers or monastery art fighters, so you don't impress me.

What does Gao style have to do with it?


<<Set some fight up with other schools or shut up, simple. You guys really have no authoriy to critisize others, or even think you are better, unless you fight those people, or everyone you say you are better than backs out.

I'm pretty sure my student Bai He offered to clean your clock. You'd rather me instead?

<<Is just the Gao master that can fight? Ohhhhhh. And there is a website that has pictures of so called masters they have knocked out. Anyone can lose, nothing to fear, unless you are suckered and get you leg broken in sparring.

Fear? You supposedly do Chen style Taiji? Where's the website of you or your teacher knocking someone out. Don't you see what a stupid remark that is?

<<There's an interestin article about rice burners vs. nitro.

Ah, nitro? Can we just keep a coherant train of thought here?

<< I mean geesh, you think Bai He should fight me in a street fight? Are you suicide bombers? You lost all credibility when Bai Hui challenged me to a street fight. I mean come on, all you have is your master, nutriders, but Gao can't beat mindboxing and you just don't like me.

Bai He would clean your clock. What does mindboxing have to do with anything? But you're right, I don't like you.

<<But I can't really go around every forum starting ****, so emptyflower truly sucks, and will forever remain useless and unproductive to getting anything good to happen( fights between schools)


What does EF have to do with this. This is about you. You're a boob.


<<I mean ****, if the gracies can do it......... **** EF, they suck and they are BJJ nutriders, and that's nothing against bjj, I actually like the style, but that's just an opion, opinions don't count.

Wait... Gracies? BJJ? what the hell are you yammering about?

<<Second, win lose or draw, I gotta develop "wall" energy, there's no such issues or "the street', " reality based training", and such because you are as confident as you are hardcore( not to say you should be dumb, you fight how you're trained, which means moves and footwork from the form).

Dude, you really need to get back on those meds. "Wall" energy? I'm not hardcore, just a guy.

<<Thirdly of all, I am not an expert or master and neither are you

Well you don't know what I am or am not.

, <<but I do Yang Taiji, push hands, double ended spear, kunlun sword, O mei qigong, Muay Thai, Wild goose qigong to the high intermediate and advanced levels, Chen style xin jia yi lu, and some xin jia er lu and broadsword, so do the math.

This must be "new" math because it adds up to a load of crap so far. What, can't get good enough at just one of them?

<<I'm nobody but so are you; at least I'm not a wannabe expert

Really? I think that's exactly what you are.

<<Emptyflower reality based self defense PUNK know it all.

Uhh.? Do you know ANYTHING about Gaoshi Baguazhang?

<< I know in a close fight nothing is set in stone, there is no "technique" that works or doesn't, only the training( qi). AND IT"S MAINLY THE LEVEL OF THE FIGHTER. Actually I never intended when I first came to emptyflower to be your enemy at all, but the cards fell to the sides that they fell, and the lines were drawn, fine but emptyflower sucks and they are not at all the authorities they say they are.

Well there you go. You've been talking to the "authorities" again. Try tin foil in your cap.

<<I don't have such a problem with arrogance or that I want to advertise my web site. Nor do I PM moderators.

WHAT?

<<Think about for real, emptyflower has the least amount oof people who can fight of ANY forum around, to the point that sparring on a Saturday class gets you mad respect.

How many did you fight? You think sparring is fighting?

<<Emptyflower has a few fighters out of thousands of members, the least of any forum around, I am not at all scared of your average 20 year IMA guy

Gosh, son, I'm 47.


<<Anyways falun gong is the most powerful style. You can get high level energy incredibly fast, and it is suited and put together so anyone can do it.

Falun Gong is a cult. But if you like stuff geared for the lowest common denominator, be my guest.

<<This is not the case in most other styles, practices will then have to be modified for each individual.

Sure, god knows I'm upset that my teachers taught me what was best for me.

<<Falun gong is also the safest but highest level practice. The people who criticize it are wannabe qigong experts, or religious fanatics who can't see past their selfish , self centered notions, or that there is something more for real out there, and it's simple and not about money or complex levels, 5 sets of high level exercises

It's all about the chicks, right?
Buddy

[backbreaker]

Lamest point by point ever. 0.0

Why is bai hui so tough? I don't fear most emptyflower fighters, but I would simply be a Thai fighter before a EF IMA fighter.

I am not referring to anything about my teachers knocking people out, they don't do that, but there are many videos of my Muay Thai trainer putting people out for 4 minutes. But my IMA teachers lineages are well documented so they cannot be bashed like the others I mentioned in the last post.

Nitro? I have nothing to do with that at all , or that group, but I can say EF sucks compared to the other internet forums

Why is Bai Hui so tough?

Yeh, you don't have wall energy and that's one of the only things I care about.

Emptyflower thinks sparring is fighting as evident in the street vs. sport debate. In other words alot of vocal posters are confused.

I am good in everything I do. I'm just not a fighter, but really , I'm not especially concerned about that. What are you talking about anyways cleaning my clock are you gonna seek me out and fight me? I'm not just street fighting at the drop of a hat cause someone challenges me and there aren't any rules or rounds anyways so it actually means not near as much though as a real fight.

And you really don't know that much qigong. Falun gong is better than what you do. You cannot call something a cult that is about doing your best in society, being responsible to society, AND HAS NO ORGANIZTION, just people practice in the parks together, cultivation has nothing to do with anyone but you, is IMA a cult? Judging from emptyflower the answer is clearly yes in that particular case.

[backbreaker]

So, you're as tough as markus brinkman? ( nothing against him or his skill) And you're gonna give me a lickin' because I dissed the EF

[Buddy]

Look, you make it quite clear you are a complete lunatic.

<Why is bai hui so tough?

Bai He. Or Pete if you prefer. Look you came on bashing emptyflower.com and Peter pulled your dress up. You talked smack and he called you on it. Tough was your line. You can't imagine a point then rail against it.


<<I don't fear most emptyflower fighters, but I would simply be a Thai fighter before a EF IMA fighter.

Well it's really just specualtion isn't it. It might be more amusing if you had better talk-fu.

<<I am not referring to anything about my teachers knocking people out, they don't do that, but there are many videos of my Muay Thai trainer putting people out for 4 minutes.


OK by that logic, can I just post a website of Roberto Duran creaming some jamoke?

<<But my IMA teachers lineages are well documented so they cannot be bashed like the others I mentioned in the last post.


Lineage? Is Chen Fake coming back to stick up for you? My lineage can beat your lineage.


<<Nitro? I have nothing to do with that at all , or that group, but I can say EF sucks compared to the other internet forums

You brought it up! So EF sucks as compared to the guys-who-like- to-dress-up-like-sailormoon forums?

<<Yeh, you don't have wall energy and that's one of the only things I care about.

What about crown moulding energy?

<<Emptyflower thinks sparring is fighting as evident in the street vs. sport debate. In other words alot of vocal posters are confused

You know, emptyflower is a website, not a person.

<<I am good in everything I do. I'm just not a fighter, but really

Your second statement negates your first.

<<I'm just not a fighter, but really , I'm not especially concerned about that.

And yet you write so much about it.

<<What are you talking about anyways cleaning my clock are you gonna seek me out and fight me?

You're not serious.

<<I'm not just street fighting at the drop of a hat cause someone challenges me and there aren't any rules or rounds anyways so it actually means not near as much though as a real fight.

Someone jumps your **** and you're complaining about rules and rounds? We have a different idea about what a real fight is.

<<And you really don't know that much qigong. Falun gong is better than what you do

Nyah Nyah.
You have no idea what I do. I can move any part of my body at will. I can purposefully open and close my joints and the individual vertabra of my spine. And I can make a young woman sigh. Can Falun Gong do that?

<<You cannot call something a cult that is about doing your best in society, being responsible to society, AND HAS NO ORGANIZTION, just people practice in the parks together, cultivation has nothing to do with anyone but you, is IMA a cult? Judging from emptyflower the answer is clearly yes in that particular case.

Well I can't speak for the site but Falun Gong has organization, has done nothing for society and is a cult you boob.

<<So, you're as tough as markus brinkman? ( nothing against him or his skill) And you're gonna give me a lickin' because I dissed the EF

Well I'm pretty sure Marcus has nothing to do with EF but the answer is no, I am not. From what I hear Marcus hits too hard for me. But I tire of this. I'll let someone with greater stamina bait you. Your every reply just proves my point. Ta ta.

[backbreaker]

No, lol at you. Yes falun gong does all that, but falun gong is way more powerful, because the natural energy does it from the beginning, and that's what counts, so falun gong is way better than your minor neigong, it's about the power of the energy currents, and falun gong is the most powerful, almost. Qigong goes from large movements, to small, to none. The meditation is the best. What you describe will take you 10 years to get to beginning level of falun gong. That is true. Falun gong is safe but advanced, it's really incredible that it can be made available like this. That takes a real master to ensure it can be done. Now , just the beginning falun conjoined hands posture is way more powerful than anything in Taiji or IMA. Wuji posture, standing pole, neigong, 100 days reverse breathing, dantien rotations, chan si gong? Nope they don't compare to falun gong, falun gong has so many good effects, because the energy flows so strongly from the begginning. The energy must lead the movements, internally and externally, otherwise you may have excellent internal control, but it is still just physical exercise and not truly qigong or meditation. Just the conjoined hands posture can instantly blast open the ming men completely at the highest level.


You are the one confused about real life and fighting. No one can pull my dress as you say up. And I never went on emptyflower bashing; that's what your crew does. You are the one nutriding lineages. I can kick your asses just on pure natural talent, but I got alot more than that. You seem to be a typical 20 year IMA guy who can't fight. And definately a wannabe qigong expert who isn't even at the level of a beggining falun gong student level.

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

WHY!!!! why such nonsense.. Warriors? hardly! an embarassing display of name-calling..

There is nothing magical about Falun Gong.. the magic is in the student.. the same mindset that backbreaker has toward Falun Gong would work equally well in any other QiGong.. the system is dependent on the student's intent.. Ultimately the energy is "formless", our trivial attempts to confine it to form is just a step in the process.. to see the form as the goal or only "way" is to miss the real value.. Everyone will believe their investment in their style(s) is best, actually.. it is themselves that make the process work.. if you want to make a statement about a system, it is better to say that "you" have used a particular system to achieve "your" understanding of this or that.. it doesn't make one system better or worse.. it only demonstrates what "you" were able to accomplish..

Be well..