Dr. John Painter - some of his claims

[Harbinger]

On his website (The Last Master of Daoqiquan), there's a picture of two men in army uniform he claims to be Li Long Dao his teacher and Li Zhang Lai, Li Long Dao’s father taken in 1928.
If you check with his lineage chart Li Zhang Lai was born in 1850 and Li Long Dao in 1880. This would make Li Zhang Lai 78 and Li Long Dao 48, in the photo. Li Zhang Lai doesn't look 78 to me and what's more Chinese soldiers during the period Chiang Kai Shek was fighting the warlords (1926-1929) wore caps, not helmets even when going into battle. The photo in question is in fact a picture of two Japanese soldiers.

[Brad]

got a link?

[PHILBERT]

The guy is a member (http://forum.kungfumagazine.com/forum/member.php?s=&action=getinfo&userid=9337)

His website can be found here (http://www.thegompa.com/)

And a very long thread can be found here (http://forum.kungfumagazine.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=9241)

At page 8 he makes his appearance to defend himself. Now, I am saying this now, Dr Painter has been discussed to death on this forum (do a search), and so if you feel the need to discuss something, feel free to e-mail him.

[Brad]

Hey Harbinger, you misspelled Yang and Bagua in your profile. Just thought you'd like to know :) BTW, who do you study with?

[backbreaker]

I just have one question. It seems alot of people agree that he has fighting skills that are bagua. I have no authority to call someone in IMA a fake, but a fair amount of people are saying his lineage is made up. Then my question is, if he is doing bagua, but not the bagua he thinks he is or says he is, What style of Bagua is it? Yin Fu ? Cheng ting hwa? Other? What style does his tyle most resemble?

[count]

Originally posted by backbreaker
I just have one question. It seems alot of people agree that he has fighting skills that are bagua. I have no authority to call someone in IMA a fake, but a fair amount of people are saying his lineage is made up. Then my question is, if he is doing bagua, but not the bagua he thinks he is or says he is, What style of Bagua is it? Yin Fu ? Cheng ting hwa? Other? What style does his tyle most resemble?
There is only one style called bagua. Well, two if you count "Gagua" that Harbinger brings to the forum. Thanks for sharring Harbinger. ;)

[Harbinger]

Brad,

Thanks for pointing out my typing errors. They were meant to read Yang and Bagua. My apologies. I have studied Yang Tai Chi with instructors from China, Hao Tai Chi with an instructor from Shanghai and also Hsing I with him. I have studied Bagua with an instructor in Beijing and another instructor in Hong Kong. Harbinger

[PHILBERT]

What were there names?

[Buddy]

Who cares? Philbert is right. This one has been done to death.
Buddy

[PHILBERT]

I am curious though as to the names. I find it a little unusual that he is living in Salt Lake City and just happened to study martial arts from masters who all came from China and surrounding areas. And all from famous cities in China. Maybe he did really study with them, maybe not, hence why I asked for names. Then again maybe he tossed it out, assuming we'd all fall for it and believe him. I know that Chinese masters do come to America and begin teaching, I just think it is rather ironic he has learned internal arts only from Chinese masters, while living in America. And given that he has only 3 posts to his name, and all 3 are on Dr Painter, he has not shown any proof that he studies the art, other than names.

[NoSecrets]

In order to prove himself maybe he should show us his mud-walking, and we can compare his to Dr. Painters'.

[BAI HE]

Considering the reception he gets, who can blame him for only 3 posts. I believe he's got some built in hype, but he has also attraced some pretty good Neijia players as devoted students, pople who have enough skill to know when they are being BS'd.

I'm taking it at face value now. There are people who teach who are not so recognized, don't need the income and generally lay low. Maybe Painter's teacher was such. Maybe He didn't get a full transmission outside of the actual practice.

This has all been done to death as a few have mentioned. If Mr. Painter stripped some of the hyperbole out of his site he'd get less flack. But he'd also be as broke as your teacher.
He has tirelessly promoted these arts and supported the efforts of lesser known practitioners for years. In of itself, that speaks volumes about him as an individual.

He should be more welcome in a community that he goes out of his way to support. Not chastised.

[PHILBERT]

Also, from what I've read (and I'd bet on it as well), his school is his only source of income, save for whatever his wife does. He has seminars all the time in the area, and I mean all the time. I always go to my favorite shop and see stuff there advertising his seminars, etc. I told MasterKiller that next time he is in the D/FW area, I'd take him over to Painter's school and let him meet him and make an opinion. I myself think Painter is a good guy, though he sometimes does some unusual things to sell the art.

As far as getting crap, if you registar on an MMA site, and post "Which is better, MMA or TMA" or "Would a Shaolin Monk last in the UFC?" or "Could Bruce Lee beat Royce Gracie", etc. you'd get alot of crap. The point is sometimes you gotta know whats been talked to death and what has not. This guy came here and with his very first 2 posts, double posted this topic here and in the main forum, bad mouthing a (point of view) respected instructor who is well known, and then never listed his own credentials to back up that he knows his own stuff. Had he contributed to some other threads, shown that he knows something, then I bet he would not get as much crap. But this could be a 14 year old who used Google to learn some names of internal arts to try and create a background. This could also be a practioner of the internal arts for 30 years. We don't know because he won't answer. All we know is started beating a dead horse with his first posts here, about something that could be found with the search function, of a man who has even appeared on this board to defend himself. Painter appeared and defended HIMSELF, which is more than I can say for alot of other people who have been bad mouthed.

[NoSecrets]

If you have nothing to compare it to is it still BS?

[jonp]

how the hell can you misspell translation from chinese?