Attn: MMAERS and competitive fighters.

[TAO YIN]

Merry, Seven, Waterdragon, and all other competitive fighters...

Sorry if I left anyone's names out. Hello, I was wondering if you guys don't mind, if you could perhaps let me know of your training regimens in detail? Ive hit a bit of some stagnation in my training, and I am hoping to get some new ideas from you guys. How much sparring, cardio, heavy bag, technique application, and all that type of stuff do you train? Any help is definetely appreciated!

thanks in advance,

TAO

[ShaolinTiger00]

Tao Yin,

While many of us practice different arts, we're all going to give you different specifics as well as each of us are training to improve our own strenghts and weaknesses.

ex. - I've reached a point where regular judo practice does not let me make great gains in endurance or strength. I'm able to compete and place very well at the local level (mid atlantic states DC,VA, MD, DE parts of PA) but will get smoked at the national level. (I have no desire to be at that elite level, but I believe that if you can do well at these competitions it speaks volumes about your credibility as an athlete, teacher and coach in the future.)

I'm now supplementing my workouts with 3x conditioning training that began this month. - aerobic & anaerobic capacity, calisthenics, plyometrics, bagwork & diet.

I'll also take the time I do have at the to become a bit more "selfish" and seek partners who push me harder than normal and less time helping newer students.

[Liokault]

I Think the one common thread throught out all the competetive fighters will be the need to develope stamina.

[SevenStar]

I agree with ST - I'd get smoked at national level, but I'm trying for it anyway. If all goes well, I'll be there this year.

I hit the weights pretty much every day, and attend class on pretty much a daily basis also. I've got MT two days a week, judo 2 days a week and bjj 3-5 days a week.

In the gym, I focus on strength training - bench press, squat and deadlift, but I do do other exercises also. I don't do cardio to the extent that I should, but I recently began running again, and get both aerobic and anaerobic work from folling, sparring, jumping rope, etc.

on my own at night I work sweeps for several minutes and do 300 + reps of my competition throws.

Check out the Training BLOG thread. FD and I post there regularly and several others have posted there too. On the training forum, someone has a blog also - it's either suntzu or BMorebanga

[Meat Shake]

Right now, Im on dioxicycline (same med as perscribed to anthrax patients, bah on strep throat gone bad) so Im not really doing anything.
Usually though...
1 night a week towing a 250 lb sled
1 night a week pushing my jeep around a parking lot
1 night a week doing hard heavybag work for 20 minutes or so
Shuai Chiao 2-4 times a week
Lift weights every other day
Headache bag and speed bag every day
Iron palm, Iron shins every day
Ab work every day
Various Shuai Chiao training tools used about 5 days a week
I do belt cracking at least 2 days a week
...
I have a ****load of training equipment, so some days Ill just go into my gym and look around, and decide what looks like fun and use it.
Only 1 day of rest each week. Usually take 1 week of laziness to every 4 months of good solid training. (Just do about half the norm for my lazy week)

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by TAO YIN
How much sparring, cardio, heavy bag, technique application, and all that type of stuff do you train?

I spar twice a week in MT, and roll pretty much every day. Here recently, I've been spending more time on the thai pads than the heavy bag, as I can work in a more dynamic manner with the pads. In judo, plenty of fit ins and grip fighting. technique application is done every class in the form of drills.

[Merryprankster]

When I'm not injured:

Interval, sport specific, cardio routine 3x per week.
Weight lifting 2x per week, sport, personal specific (considering 3x. No decision yet.)
Sparring around 30 minutes to 1 hour 5-6 days per week.
Drilling one or two moves/sequences 1 hour 5-6 days per week.

This is all extra and does not include my class time. Injured--well, I've had to eliminate the sparring...

Class time alone won't even get you over the hump.

It's one of the reasons I tend to call so much bull**** when I see what some people post as their training regimen (not as much here, but over all). I'm intimately familiar with how much time this leaves me, including work, sleep and taking care of personal stuff, and I'm always looking for MORE training time and I'm not even at the level I want to be at yet. The way some people want to tell you they train, it's either their only job, (possible) or they never sleep (considerably less likely...)

As an example, somebody once posted a training regimen that left them 4 hours of sleep a day. No way.

Everybody else on here who is talking about fighting or training as if they were is pretty aware of what I'm talking about and has to have exceptional time management to get what they need.

[ShaolinTiger00]

MP, - just bought a sweet treadmill with my tax return..

Increasing my endurance capacity to attack!!!!!! WOOO HOOOOO !!

[Merryprankster]

Now, if only you could keep your grips on me :D

[TAO YIN]

Thank you all very much for your responses.

Seven,

It sounds like you work a lot on power, that is cool. When you hit the weights, do you focus more on maxing out or on repetition? Do you think that doing lots of reps screws up speed, as opposed to doing max lifts? I really have never spent too much time lifting weights, so I am really interested on what type of weight training you think (as well as all the rest of you guys) is MOST beneficial for a fighter.

Sorry for my misunderstanding, but when you say that you work on your competion throws by yourself, what are you referring to specifically? Also do you think that padwork is a more effective training method than heavy bag work, or do you think that both are definetely necessary?

Merry,

You mentioned "interval, sport specific, cardio" training. I was wondering what your thoughts are on this. Do you think that it is more benefical for someone in training to work extensively on correct footwork, I guess "fighting footwork??" Or, do you think that running, jogging, jumping rope, and all that type of stuff is needed to go along with this???

I agree with you totally on the time deal. It is hard for a person to make enough time for all of this and do everything else needed to get along in life.


Again, thanks to all of you for your posts. I have more questions for the rest of you but this post is going on to long now.


respectfully,

TAO

[ShaolinTiger00]

Now, if only you could keep your grips on me

If only you's stop washing your gi in vasoline..:p

[ShaolinTiger00]

"fighting footwork" will be gained from sparring experience and a coach to guide & correct you.

but agility drills etc will certainly help develop quickness, motion etc.. and those are great traits to have.

[DragonzRage]

My training regimen varies depending on a lot of factors. But I guess I'll give you a general idea of what my training might look like if I was preparing for a muay thai fight. Keep in mind that this is not necessarily what my "ideal" fight training program would look like. Unless you're a high level pro, you can't really dedicate as much to training as you would like to.

I would get some road work in first thing every morning, or at least 5 days a week (between 3 and 5 miles depending on how much time I have). I'd keep a quick jogging pace, combined with 30 second intervals of sprinting. Sometimes I'll do intervals of holding my breath. I'll actually go into the gym to train everyday during the week and on saturday morning as well. sunday is my rest day, altho i'll still hit the weight room and/or do my road work. Every time I walk into the gym I warm up by stretching out a bit, followed by 12-15 minutes of jump rope, followed by 3 to 5 rounds of shadowboxing (3 min round, 1 min rest). The first one or two rounds I'd focus totally on boxing and footwork. Next round would be mostly leg work (kicking, kneeing, shielding). And then I'd do one or two rounds mixing it all up together. I'm always fighting an invisible opponent when I shadowbox. I try to visualize myself reacting to and countering different attacks. After I get done with the shadowboxing I'll stretch out again and rest for a couple minutes. In usual training I'd head to the heavy bag after this, but when I'm training for a fight I cut most of the bagwork out and will only go to it if i want to work certain combos for a bit, or if there's no one immediately available to work with me. So instead of hitting the bag, I'll go straight to my trainer and move around with him hitting the pads for one or two rounds. Then I'll spar with different partners, having him coach me as I do so. For fight training we set rounds to 5 minutes each with one minute rest. Sometimes I'll spar for an hour, and sometimes he'll have me spar less than that and leave another half hour or so for thai pads and maybe a couple rounds of clinchwork. When we drill pads we'll set a pretty intense pace. The last minute of each round will be rapid fire kicks and clinch knees. That type of training is very good for explosiveness and endurance. On a full sparring day I'll do several rounds only boxing. My trainer will grab one of the boxers to partner up with me, if anyone's available. The rest of the sparring is muay thai style. My cool down period is basically doing a lot of crunches and maybe clap push ups followed by stretching.

I'll try to hit the weight room every other day or at least a couple times a week. I like doing full body circuit training, but I find leg work (squats, lunges, etc), core strengthening (abs, medicine ball, lower back), and balance/stabilizer work to be most useful for fight training. But I don't think its good to add too much mass to your legs if you're doing muay thai.

When fight date comes closer, I tone the intensity of the sparring down (no sense in getting injured soon before a fight) and focus more on the pads. I tone the weight training down as well, and don't do any weights at all a week or so before the fight.

When I'm just practicing normally (not trying to do a fight) I do a lot more heavy bag work when training, and I spend a lot more work out time weight training and doing general conditioning. I don't mind practicing muay thai 4 times a week rather than 5-6. I'll do road work only 1-3 times a week. I'll spend a lot more time partnering up with people to do pad work or clinch work rather than sparring all the time. I don't spend nearly as much time drilling with my trainer. When I'm at the gym I'll make myself available to anyone who wants to spar, and I'll try to get at least one decent sparring session in during the week. I usually end up sparring twice in a week. All of this is enough to keep me in shape and keep working my skills. I'll go through periods where I do a lot of sparring and train really hard just because I feel like it, or because I notice something that I really want to work on. But if I try to keep a very intense pace all the time, I get burnt out from training, lose my motivation, and waste a lot of time and energy.

Back when I was also doing bjj/submission grappling I'd do muay thai 3 times a week and grappling/MMA training twice a week and try to do MMA style sparring session once a week. But I don't live right near my bjj place anymore and I can't afford any good grappling gyms in my area, so I'm only doing muay thai now. I don't really mind though. I know enough grappling for my own good, and I am first and foremost a muay thai guy anyway. When i have more time and money, or if I decide to fight MMA style again, I'll get back into grappling.

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by TAO YIN

Seven,

It sounds like you work a lot on power, that is cool. When you hit the weights, do you focus more on maxing out or on repetition?

I don't max. I shoot for between 3 and 6 reps. Once I can do more than 6, it's time to move up.

Do you think that doing lots of reps screws up speed, as opposed to doing max lifts?

screws up speed? If you're asking whether or not getting bigger will slow you down, I'd say no, not significantly, if at all.

I really have never spent too much time lifting weights, so I am really interested on what type of weight training you think (as well as all the rest of you guys) is MOST beneficial for a fighter.

strength training - compound lifts, heavy weight, few sets, few reps. The idea being that you want to train your neuromuscular system to produce a harder contraction.

Sorry for my misunderstanding, but when you say that you work on your competion throws by yourself, what are you referring to specifically?

I have surgical tubes that I tie around a stationary object. I will use them as resistance as I perfomr my throws - nmost judoka have 3 - 4 throws (or less) that they are very comfortable and very redictable with. Everything else is just a set up for those techniques. If the set ups result in you being thrown, that's cool, but my big 3 are the ones that I'm going for serious throws with. There aren't many traning partners that will just stand there and let you fit in for 300 throws - luckily, the tubes won't complain.

Also do you think that padwork is a more effective training method than heavy bag work, or do you think that both are definetely necessary?

they're both necessary. the bag is for building power. The pads are for dynamic combinations.

[ShaolinTiger00]

strength training - compound lifts, heavy weight, few sets, few reps. The idea being that you want to train your neuromuscular system to produce a harder contraction.

SevenStar has just deadlifted the correct and is waiting for the gym rat with chicken legs to finish so that he can move onto the squat rack.

[dodger87]

Originally posted by SevenStar
I agree with ST - I'd get smoked at national level, but I'm trying for it anyway. If all goes well, I'll be there this year.

I hit the weights pretty much every day, and attend class on pretty much a daily basis also. I've got MT two days a week, judo 2 days a week and bjj 3-5 days a week.

In the gym, I focus on strength training - bench press, squat and deadlift, but I do do other exercises also. I don't do cardio to the extent that I should, but I recently began running again, and get both aerobic and anaerobic work from folling, sparring, jumping rope, etc.

on my own at night I work sweeps for several minutes and do 300 + reps of my competition throws.

Check out the Training BLOG thread. FD and I post there regularly and several others have posted there too. On the training forum, someone has a blog also - it's either suntzu or BMorebanga

You do weights everyday? Someone on this forum told me that that was overstraining or something.

[red5angel]

Why would this question be limited to MMA or competitive martial artists?
The reason I ask is because while I dabble in the first and and am training for the second, I find that some of my forms work makes a really good cardio conditioning workout. It's all traditional forms work but I do them quickly and in successive "reaps" running through all my forms from 6-10 times on a cardio day, actually just about everyday.
Of course I do other stuff, I usually do HIIT every other morning and I use my wife's cross country ski machine on the other days. I weightlift from 4-6 days a week as well.

[Ray Pina]

I compete and it's funny, I don't train that much in the "training" sense.

I train with my master twice a week: Power drills, concepts and then working those concepts with partners either standing or on the ground

Two times a week I get together with friends and chi sau or light spar, each of us working on our own thing.

If I have an upcoming fight, I'll run on nights I'm not training or with my girl (4 times a week) and jump rope a month out. I'll pick up the sparring two weeks out and then shut it all down 3 days before the fight.

If there are no fighgts, I just train with no cardio.

I think its important to train physically as a kid or newbie to learn the muscle memory and condition the martial body. Then I think most of the work should be done with your brain: the how's, the why's.

Know that most will disagree. But I'll be 30 soon. How much can I condition? How much bigger, faster, stronger can I get? I can never condition to beat the 21 year old 250lbs athlete. I can only train my mind and skill.

Above being a competitor, I'm a martial artists. Any size, any age, any time. You invest too much and lose it too quickly -- cardio. And all that huffing and puffing = lack of oxygen. Not good for the brain.

Balance.

[apoweyn]

Know that most will disagree. But I'll be 30 soon. How much can I condition?

I hear ya. I'm going to be 33 in June. And frankly I'm just hoping to get my will written by then.

[red5angel]

e-fist, sometimes your lucky and have the genetics, most of the time your not. To compete at most respectable levels - not saying you aren't but you may have the genetics - you have to train pretty intensively to get what you want out of it, hopefully that's 1 st place.
You're right, you don't have to bust your balls everyday to compete, but you do to win consistantly. For example, you could go out and run all the 5K's you can find, maybe you only jog 6 days a week and you will probbaly be in the middle of the pack when you run, maybe towards the front of the pack but you're not going to take 1st place.
It's the guy I see everyday running 10-13 miles pushing his baby stroller around that's going to do that, or the guy who understands the benefits weight training and sprint training can provide.
For example, 6 months ago I was in pretty good shape, a big guy, plenty of muscle, reasonable endurance, and I could hang in the ring for the most part, but since I started seriously knuckling down and training I've come a long way.

[red5angel]

And frankly I'm just hoping to get my will written by then.

what sort of training regimen do you have for that? Are you weight training at all? Any sort of high intensity cardio? are you going to compete? ;)

[apoweyn]

Originally posted by red5angel


what sort of training regimen do you have for that? Are you weight training at all? Any sort of high intensity cardio? are you going to compete? ;)

Actually, I spend most of my training hours trying to figure out what "exculpatory" means.

[red5angel]

I think it's an artists term for when you mess up a bust.

[apoweyn]

Originally posted by red5angel
I think it's an artists term for when you mess up a bust.

That probably doesn't need to be in my will then.

[red5angel]

unless you messed up a bust. My guess if you did you weren't training hard enough, probably need to focus more on cardio....

[FatherDog]

Yeah, pretty much all I do is in the training BLOG thread. It's fairly time consuming. Fortunately, I lack anything resembling a social life.

[Ray Pina]

Red I hear you and think that works for most, like I said.

I was very succesful as a kid. Won lots of trophies, ect.

But now these are young men that I compete against. They can kick harder than me -- mostly because they train to kick hard and fast and I don't. They have better endurance than me, too -- mostly because I don't train the cardio.

If we rely just on that info, we don't have to fight. We can moniter bag kicks and run the 40, and 2 miles and see how we compare.

Also, if I rely on that type of physical power, how do I fight the 20 year old at 30 ... 40 ... 50 ... 60?

It's a matter of what one wants: short term or long term.

I've put lots of years in to the kicking and punching game. I'm thinking I'm as good as I'll get at it. Now I'm investing my time in TECHNICAL POWER. The difference in bending over to pick something up and using a lever. My pysical power is finite, but I can increase its effectiveness via technology. My mental power is infinite; knowing how to set the other guy up and trap him is important.

Which ever way, best of luck. I see guys getting better all the time and training hard. Now is a good time to be in MA.

[red5angel]

It's a matter of what one wants

as always, that's the key. For example when I was in ok shape, I was confident I wouldn't have a problem with sparring or on the street. I knew as I began training to compete that it wouldn't cut it though, I was out of breath too quick and couldn't get it back fast enough. It's also nice to have lost of a ton of weight, it's amazing how much a little in the middle can get in the way!

[norther practitioner]

it's amazing how much a little in the middle can get in the way!

It's nice being able to kick your belly...;)

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by dodger87


You do weights everyday? Someone on this forum told me that that was overstraining or something.


That person was right and wrong, depending on the method used. If you are doing high sets and reps, or low sets and high reps, then yeah, that CAN be true, unless you are splitting the body parts you work - you do a full body session every day.

With strength based training that I mentioned above, that doesn't apply. I can bench press (for example) every day and be just fine.

[Water Dragon]

I do Muay Thai/BJJ twice a week and Shuai Chiao/San Shou twice a week. My SC is modeled after my MT. Here's a typical SC workout I wrote up for a friend.

Standard Warm-Up

Body joint rotations (neck, shoulder , elbow, wrist, hip, spine, knees, ankles)

100 Jumping Jacks
100 Squats
100 Lunges
100 Calf Raises

2 minutes crunches
2 minutes flutter kicks
Kick the sky and torque the spine (falling set) 2 minutes

1 minute push ups
100 belt cracks from horse
50 belt cracks squat and raise
50 belt cracks forward stance side-to-side

Forms (2 minutes per form – choose 5 forms per workout)
Diagonal Cut
Neck Surround
Forward March (w/ belt crack)
Downward Pulling
Bowing (w/ belt crack)
Backward Kicking
Waist Control Lift
Dragon Stepping
Penetration Step (from western wrestling)

Pad work (2 sets of 3 drills)

1 minute drills
Crosses
Hooks
Uppercuts
Round house kick
Knees

2 minute drills
jab
jab-cross-hook-uppercut
cross-hook-cross
jab-cross-body-body-hook
jab-cross-hook-roundhouse-roundhouse
jab-roundhouse
jab-cross-sidekick
teep-jab-cross-hook
jab-cross-hook-uppercut-grab and knee

Drills – 2 minutes each
Pummeling drill (put on boxing gloves, fight for double underhooks)
Ning drill (jacket wrestling – must throw with grip work only)
Sweeping drill – always sweep in 3’s
Arm banging
Shin banging

Repetetive Throws (set timer for 5 minutes, then switch) pick 3 throws

Free Wrestling OR kick boxing OR San Shou at least 3 2 minute rounds

Cool down with 3-4 tai po @ 30 seconds each. You should do the whole set while pushing bricks at least twice a week (30 seconds per posture)

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by red5angel
Why would this question be limited to MMA or competitive martial artists?


my guess is he wants to get into competition and wanted insight from some who compete. I dunno though - I can't answer for him.

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by Water Dragon
I do Muay Thai/BJJ twice a week and Shuai Chiao/San Shou twice a week. My SC is modeled after my MT. Here's a typical SC workout I wrote up for a friend.

Standard Warm-Up

Body joint rotations (neck, shoulder , elbow, wrist, hip, spine, knees, ankles)

100 Jumping Jacks
100 Squats
100 Lunges
100 Calf Raises

2 minutes crunches
2 minutes flutter kicks
Kick the sky and torque the spine (falling set) 2 minutes

1 minute push ups
100 belt cracks from horse
50 belt cracks squat and raise
50 belt cracks forward stance side-to-side



real similar to our bjj warm up. Our MT warmup consists mainly of jumping rope, shadowboxing and line drills.

[TAO YIN]

quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by red5angel
Why would this question be limited to MMA or competitive martial artists?

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
quote: sevenstar


my guess is he wants to get into competition and wanted insight from some who compete. I dunno though - I can't answer for him.

__________________________________________________ __



I was just curious is all. I haven't competed in a while and just wondered what kinds of training you all do.


Cool post Waterdragon

[red5angel]

some good resources for it on this board. I've used MerryPranksters regimen a few times and it's killer. Waterdragons looks tough too. Lately I have been using sort of a hybrid, using scrappers workout, some of the stuff I got off this board and my own innovations.

[CrippledAvenger]

WD's is pretty tough, but Merry's looks just brutal.

Coming in late to add my two cents, I'd say never neglect your cardio. That's easily the most important part of conditioning. I'm starting my roadwork all over from the begining this weekend, two miles a day, 5 days a week for the first 3 weeks, three miles a day 4 days a week for the next three. Then I'll see where I stand before my matches coming up.

[TAO YIN]

I do a lot of traditional conditioning if you will, "iron palm," roller bar, "iron shin," "iron shirt," forms, chi sau, finger condtioning, and all the stuffs to the system. Heavy Bag, Pad Work, push ups, sit ups, and all that kind of stuff. Cardio and footwork. I feel pretty comfortable when it comes to most anything standup. However, ROLLING is getting the best of me. I have previous grappling experience, but not even close to near enough to compete at say NAGA, and the few students I have get tired out on the ground way too easily. There are no bjj schools or even judo schools anywhere around my area, so this is beginning to suck. I feel comfortable on the ground in a streetfight moreso than, but I wouldn't in the ufc or a national event, or stuff with just straight up killas, cuz thats what them guys are all about. You guys are gonna laugh at me about this, but,,,,,,,,,how does one condition for a 30 minute rolling, grappling match? I guess the overall best would be, sparring with a grappler better than you an hour a day huh? Has anyone here noticed how much easier it is (im sure you all have), or quicker I should say, to run out of gas (energy) on the ground. In a competitive event against straight up bad arses, if you dont got an enduring clinch and an enduring ground game, you be gone unless you be lucky before hand. Anyways, thanks again.

TAO

[SevenStar]

The most important thing is to stay relaxed. Once you start to relax, you'll notice that you conserve more energy when you roll. we go for 5 mins a round, for 45 mins to an hour... If you're not relaxed, you'll be out of gas by the third roll.

[Merryprankster]

The most important thing is to stay relaxed. Once you start to relax, you'll notice that you conserve more energy when you roll. we go for 5 mins a round, for 45 mins to an hour... If you're not relaxed, you'll be out of gas by the third roll.

I agree with 7*, but with some caveats/clarification

One of the common problems in BJJ is people who wait around for an opening or spar too slowly. They've taken "relax" to mean "sluggish."

This is not the case. "Relaxing" is sort of a catch-all word that encompasses a lot of things:

Breathing
"Mat Sense" (comfortableness moving on the ground)
Knowing which muscle groups to activate, when
Energy conservation
Maximizing body attributes through proper mechanics
Flow

There are probably more. Similar is Judo's idea of "Maximum efficiency, minimum effort." A lot of people seem to think that means perfecting technique and timing at the expense of everything else. The see minimum effort and read "effortless." This is rarely the case, even on the "perfect" throw. What Judo's maxim and what "relax" really mean is one thing, IMO: Learning how to get the most out of your body through proper technique and strategy. That may mean busting your ass for 7 minutes straight with a heart rate of 180+.

[Xebsball]

mma sparring link for ya uneducated foos (http://www.smmd.net/errors/badluck.html)