traditional yang taiji

[stimulant]

just wondering if anyone here actually knows the original 85 movement long form of Yang style?

[backbreaker]

I think the Tcoung ta tchen lineage might be a good candidate for Old Yang style. I studied with an instuctor of Tchoung's for 11 years ( 8 to 19) and learned mant things, but I learned cheng man ching taichi form instead of the old long form. I learnded kinlin( I think kunlun) sword though, two person sets, push hands, and fa jin. If someone here knows Guang Ping style that style bears alot of resemblance to Chen style.

http://www.dotaichi.com/tchoung.htm

http://www.selfgrowth.com/articles/Kurland3.html

http://www.wuji.com/tchoung.htm

http://www.northwesttaichichuan.org/Family%20Tree%20Tchoung%20Style%202.HTML

[GLW]

The counting of the routine as 85 Postures is typically done when referring to the routine as handed down by Yang Chengfu.

Since he reputedly reorganized and eliminated some duplicate movements and such, any other versions would probably be counted as more than 85 postures.

[Walter Joyce]

I thought the Yang Chengfu was the 108 routine?

[stimulant]

WJ I agree with you

[Brad]

The Yang Cheng Fu 108 routine is often counted as 85 in China.

[stimulant]

so that would explain it then!!!

:D

although I dont do tai chi (i'm a mizong quan man personally) my shifu also teaches traditonal yang style, and being form china i guess thats why its 85 movements!

[count]

108 can be counted as 85 or 88. Sequences like grasp the sparrows tail can be counted as 1 or 4. Ward off, roll back, press, and push. Some people discount some movements as transitional but are clearly applications. Does it matter anyway how you count? There is only one Tai Chi, just different expressions. List the movements of your form that are different?

[Walter Joyce]

Well I learned it in the US from a Chinese Yang lineage disciple, and he called it 108, so there.

LOL


;)

[GLW]

Some count it as 108, some 113, some 103, but in most of China, and in the professional circles, 85 is the primary number used to refer to Yang Chengfu's routine.

88 is NEVER used. This is because there is an 88 posture routine that was put together by Li Tianji. It is almost a complete copy of 85 posture but has a few differences. It was Li's attempt to create a "Standard" Yang like long form. However, many felt that if he was going to do this, why not do it in the spirit of 48 and create a long combined or completely unique routine.

In fact, it is a different routine but it is so similar, that if you do not see a person doing certain key parts, you would just think that it is a person doing 85 with some of the flavors from 24.

[kungfu cowboy]

Isn't the original yang style Chen style?














(just kidding!) :p

[Walter Joyce]

Originally posted by kungfu cowboy
Isn't the original yang style Chen style?
(just kidding!) :p

Actually, if you ask me, it is, no joke at all.

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

Walter.. i applaud your sensibility.. differing styles of Taiji are still dependent on the principles and foundation work.. i usually tell my students that Taiji forms are used to train us in the principles which are universal.. so much time and effort has been wasted in the arguement of style and neglect of principle.. personally, i don't trouble myself with counting the movements.. heck, just getting two or three right is enough of a challenge..

Be well.. <respectful bows>

[Mo Ling]

Yeah, Walter is right, traditional Yang taijiquan IS Chen taijiquan...but who cares?
you would be lucky to find someone near you who could and would teach you anything authentic anyhow...



M


www.taijigongfu.com

[bamboo_ leaf]

yep, thats why they call it yang taijiquan.

[Walter Joyce]

Originally posted by bamboo_ leaf
yep, thats why they call it yang taijiquan.

I thought they called it Yang taijiquan so the Yangs could pocket the cash.

:cool:

[backbreaker]

Once a guy who knew nothing said to me " I think Yang style is stupid. To fucus just on the Yang but not yin is dumb." I think he mainly did tae kwon do and maybe some kungfu.

[One Finger Zen]

hey there guys and girls
just dropped by to say....
CHEN STYLE RULES!!!MWA HAHAHA
I myself am a avid disciple of the ultimate and original style of taiji. (i'm only kidding by the way so don't go and start goin crazy at me. i'm only 17!!!) Taiji builds a strong root and my sifu says we have the advatage over those who solely learn Hung kuen by itself (i am also learning Hung kuen).
My opinion is that Yang style is okay for the health benefits but for power, Chen is amazing. Anyone heard of Master Wang Hai Jun? Well i learn the Lao jia 18 form from him!! Don't know who he is? Well just try 5 times champion of All of China Taiji championship and then you may have an idea!!
Zaijian until the next time we meet!!

One Finger Zen ;)

[backbreaker]

:D I have no problem with you. The Yang Taiji I have done was very powerful, but I couldn't find the spirals in it on my own that are obvious in Chen style. I think the spirals in Yang style require you to be very peceptive and clever to see, and in Yang style my movements were mechanical for years. Some people say only Yang style has proved itself in full contact matches, but I could care less because I see it the way I see it, spiral energy is just so cool.

[backbreaker]

Oh yeah, OFZ, xin jia rules over lao jia:D

[bamboo_ leaf]

There is only one taiji.

The key question should be when was the term taiji used to describe a body of arts that originated according to some in the chen village ?

What attributes make these arts taiji ?

Is it the principles they stress and use or is it the linage traced back to the various founders of the different family styles ?


dose it matter ? :(

[One Finger Zen]

First things first; bamboo_leaf you just need to chill out, me an' backbreaker were only having a bit of fun 'bigging up' our styles!!Don't look too deep into things trying to find a hidden meaning where there isn't one. And I agree with everyone who says that all tai chi is the same just different names and maybe minor structural differences (eg the compact Wu style, spiralling Chen, etc). Its the same with kung fu-all 'daughters' of kung fu came from the same mother if you see what i am saying.
Oh and by the way , Backbreaker, I also know xin jia so :p nyah nyah!!!
Has anyone actually heard of Wang Hai Jun? If you want to know, go to Google and image search for Wang Hai Jun or just go to sixharmonies.org.Hes amazing!!
:D Catch ya later everyone!!

[bamboo_ leaf]

chilling boss, chilling :cool:

not reading into anything just, passing time ;)

[One Finger Zen]

cool cool ;)

[Walter Joyce]

Originally posted by One Finger Zen
Has anyone actually heard of Wang Hai Jun? If you want to know, go to Google and image search for Wang Hai Jun or just go to sixharmonies.org.Hes amazing!!


Yeah, I think I've heard the name once of twice before.