NHB Wing Chun DVD

[Alan Orr]

Hi guys

Just a quick note to let you know I have just released my new DVD NHB Wing Chun.

Check it out for more infor on it at www.alanorr.com

It has a Chi Sao demo on it as well. Stand up fighting glove drills and lots of ground and pound. The bests ways to strike and control a ground fighter from all the grappling positions and so on.

Thank you

Alan

[KingMonkey]

Has anyone here seen any of Alan Orr's videos ?
If so comments ....................

And to Alan if you're listening are you going to put any of your earlier videos on DVD ?

[Alan Orr]

I don't have plans to put my other tapes on DVD for some time.

You can check out some comments on my videos on the site as well. Rene has also seen them and as put up infor on them if you do a search on my name on this forum.

www.alanorr.com

Regards

Alan

[captain]

alan orr is also available for weddings and graduation ceremonies.best price in town.won't be beaten.see business
card in window!

[Mckind13]

I bought his whole set and was very impressed.

I have not seen the new stuff but if the quality is the same I will be ordering a set soon.

Worth every pound!

David

[jmdrake]

Hello Alan,

I noticed on your website that you have guys competing in NHB. What Wing Chun tools have they been able to utilize in competition? Also do you have any clips of their fights on the DVD?

Regards,

John M. Drake

[KenWingJitsu]

Wow.....I was hoping to make this DVD first lol.

Congrats on making such a DVD....this is what many need.

[aaron b]

They have really helped me in learning that close body control when fighting someone who is robust and likes to grapple...which is what they say is a wingchun practitioners nightmare...nonsense....we should be able as wingchun artists to destroy any opponent even if they dont drop immediately and just keep coming and coming....a grappler expects to take a shot on the way in before he mauls you....maybe thats why weve never seen a wingchun fighter do well in ufc etc.....surely we should be able to fight with out having to resort to the 3rd form immediately...ie eye strikes etc....since ive seen the dvd its made me realise i can use wingchun principles when im on the floor or in the guard...

[phantom]

Sifu Orr, does your Sifu Robert Chu or David Mckinnon teach the same NHB wing chun as you do? If not, does anybody else in the United States teach it? Thanks in advance.

[reneritchie]

I am currently enjoying the 3rd tape in Alan's first series (sorry it's taking so long, between work and training I am seldom if ever in front of the TV anymore :( )

They are outstanding so far. The first one covers footwork, the second strikes, and the 3rd is counter-striking.

They are refereshingly lineage-and-form-less. You will not hear one word about how great any one lineage is, nor see one form being done. Instead, you will see actual combat skill development drills, and conceptual exposition.

With a background in both boxing and wrestling, Alan offers unique insights into using WCK to counter these arts.

Hopefully I will get to watch #4 this weekend (though I will be going to the TKO fights on Saturday night to watch Jeremy Horn take on local David Loiseau for the MW title... :) )

[aaron b]

Originally posted by jmdrake
Hello Alan,

I noticed on your website that you have guys competing in NHB. What Wing Chun tools have they been able to utilize in competition? Also do you have any clips of their fights on the DVD?

Regards,

John M. Drake

[aaron b]

hello john....i posted your reply instead of my answer to your question...**** computers!

anyway...a few of us are competing at the NEC in birmingham on 25th april if all goes well....the first of many we hope....should be an interesting and excellent learning experience.....as sifu has said 'just another training day'.

as there are rules, there are restrictions as to what we can use in comp....but as sifu shows in the NHB DVD's and Sparring videos hes produced, our use of body structure, correct punching, hip power and wing chun principles will all be used....centre line still applies when ground fighting....

as you know when training with your kungfu brothers no matter how hard you train....full contact, flow or tearing each other apart...a 'real' opponent brings a different energy to the fight....as its comp its obviously not the same as someone attacking you in the street when anything goes....but its a step closer and dealing with the nerves and pressure associated with spectators etc is all good practice in keeping your centre...which you definately need in a real situation....

many thanks

[Alan Orr]

Hi Guys

Thanks for your interest and so on.

To answer John and Phantom I will be putting up a clip on my site in the few days showing the intro to the NHB DVD. It may give you an idea of the things I cover on it.

We have no live Fight's as such on the DVD. Just the training fights and live drills etc. Oh, but I did add a demo for you to see of my Chi Sao, it is not set, just normal training level. But going towards full contact. I hope you enjoy that bit.

David McKinnon is a great firend and Kung Fu brother to me, we have trained together many times. He has a great understanding of correct Wing Chun structure and also of the ground game. I am sure that what I show on the DVD is just how he would see it as well.

If your in his area you must check him out. He's down to earth and trains with an open mind.

Just a quick note to 'captain' : Its easy to be rude when you are on the computer, but is just as easy to be firendly. If you have a problem please contact me direct. The reason I let you guys know on this forum of my new release is that I would think anything that is new and gives you the chance to improve would be of interest to you. If its not then why have you something to say, just walk on.

Anyway time wasted already. If you have any real questions please ask. I am always happy to hear from others wanting to improve.

Regards

Alan

[captain]

hello Alan,no problem here.im all for the betterment of one's interest in something and the skills gathering process.more so,when it is available and FREE to all.if it isnt,then it is an ad that belongs in a magazine/official website and not a discussion board like this.

Russell
ps.im more cheeky than rude!

[Knifefighter]

Originally posted by Alan Orr
We have no live Fight's as such on the DVD. Just the training fights and live drills etc.

Anyway time wasted already. If you have any real questions please ask. I am always happy to hear from others wanting to improve. - Have you or any of your students competed in NHB? If so, which events?
- Which grapplers have you trained under? How long with each?

[Alan Orr]

Hi Russell.

No problem. As I said you will have your free preview on my web site asap.

Knifefighter :Have you or any of your students competed in NHB? If so, which events?
- Which grapplers have you trained under? How long with each?


Hi 'knifefighter' I have 4 guys fighting in 2 months. I train with Eddy Millis of Shark Tank and have trained with Matt Furey in Catch and many different BJJ guys.

I will let you know how they do or check my site for updates.

Regards

Alan

[Knifefighter]

Originally posted by Alan Orr
I have 4 guys fighting in 2 months. Don't you think it is a bit premature to be selling NHB instructionals before actuallly having your methods employed in competitive NHB matches by yourself or your students? I find it a bit irresponsible that you have not competed yourself or at least had students compete in these events yet, but do not mention that fact in the marketing of your instructional series.

[Alan Orr]

Hi Knifefighter

Re your:

Don't you think it is a bit premature to be selling
NHB instructionals before actuallly having your
methods employed in competitive NHB matches by
yourself or your students?

I feel it is you who is a bit premature, as you are
making comments when you have not read correctly what
this DVD in about. ( or seen it)

It is not a grappling DVD. It is a striking when in
grappling positions and how to use your 'Wing Chun'
correctly with body structure on the ground and to
control the stand up fight when a grappler is coming
in. Also the correct way to punch, which most do
incorrectly. As I have been training in the martial
arts since 1985 and in that time have spend every week
training 20 hours plus sparring, fighting, training
and so on. I would say that in my Wing Chun time of
training ( 15 years) and grappling time ( 8 years) I
have covered these areas quite well. I teach and train
Wing Chun in a way that most people having never seen.

This is not me saying I better that you type of crap,
its that I have seen everything on Wing Chun and know
what I do is different. I think someone of your
background would even like it!

I would like to introduce this way of training the art
to more people in order to see the art grow and
develop. Instead of BS on who's trained with who. Most
of the guys people know as being Wing Chun 'masters'
would not last 1 min in a real fight. My background is
with real fighting and I want to see Wing Chun become
alive again thats all.

Re your:Knifefighter's - I find it a bit irresponsible
that you have not competed yourself or at least had
students compete in these events yet, but do not
mention that fact in the marketing of your
instructional series.


I feel it is irresponsible when people teach BS Wing
Chun ( as it is a fighting art). Also again you are
making comments without knowing what they are
commenting on as you don't know what I do or teach.
You having seen the DVD you having seen the Body
Structure Methods I am trying to introduce you guys to
who seem to misunderstand the correct use of Wing Chun
power. ( this in my many years of real training I have
found via my teacher Robert Chu) You guys need to look
at what he's teaching as it is Wing Chun at its
highest level( my opinion of course).

The NHB Wing Chun is a term I used as the DVD is based
on using Wing Chun within any environment, therefore
No holds barred - not fixed to just basic Chi Sao and
basic applications. This is Wing Chun alive and well,
kicking ass not falling asleep in Chi Sao. I didn't
use some of the tools we have as I wanted people to
try it and use it safely, so it is toned down as well.
Of course if you compete with striking I know this
will improve your striking skill over night. I have
tested it with many stand up and ground fighters and
in full contact training also on the street. My guys
who want to fight have been wanting to do so for some
time, but the timing has only worked out just now.

It does not mean its not tested.

I still do not think competitive NHB or grappling is
like a real fight, but we just take it as fun and win
or lose is not important. What is important is to
learn about yourself and keep growing.

The other point is that as I train grappling I know
that if your Wing Chun has no Body Structure then you
will not last against a good grappler full stop ( I am
sure you know that). So this DVD is also to help Wing
Chun guys who even don't have good ground skills or
are not sure what to do if attacked in that manor.

Body Structure is so over looked and most Wing Chun
guys think they know what I am talking about, but I am
afraid they don't. I have meet most of the Wing chun
world and believe me the gap is big.

Of course these are just my views, but that is why I
have released the Body Structure Series. Why not read
on my site want people have said after seeing them. No
hype but I have had great feedback for all who have
seen them.

I am a no nonsense guy and I am sure you are that why
you have questioned my background and I have no
problem with that. But I would think it is always wise
to check up a bit more before you start your say.

Anyway we are hoping to have a intro video on my site
www.alanorr.com in the next day or so. Then you will
get a quick look at some footage. Again the Body
Structure is mostly explained in my video's but you
may be able to see the difference if you are looking
for the right things.

Regards

Alan

[AndrewS]

Chiming in on the end of this,

Alan's first tape series was excellent. While I'm a WT guy and we have some technical differences, I'm impressed with the approach and material. While nothing substitutes for hands-on experience, Alan shows a very nice progression for skill development in live training. Having seen the first series, I'd love to check out his NHB DVD, and will pick it up soon.

The concepts and methods Alan is using are dead-on, good stuff. There's a dearth of material out there on making the transition into MMA, Alan's take is welcome, and worth the money.

Alan, thanks for putting the material out there. When you're in Los Angeles I'd love to buy you a beer and compare notes,

Andrew

P.S. If you want a testimonial for your website, feel free to use the above.

P.P.S. Good luck to your guys!

[reneritchie]

Alan is correct in that his (derived from Robert Chu's, derived from Hawkins Cheung's) method is different in kind from 99.9% of the WCK out there (I leave .1% for coincidence/cross polination factor ;) ).

I can't say its WCK at its highest level, because that will mean different things to different people, and is a red button anyway, but I will say that it is a method that, in my experience, produces amazing results in an incredibly short period of time.

It is not 'classical' in that it doesn't look like what little old men did in pictures on other continuents in previous centuries, but it is implemented according to their (Orr/Chu/Cheung's) views on the classical foundation of Chinese theory (not just WCK, or even just TCMA, but TCM as well).

Now, it's possible all paths get to the same or similar ends eventually, it's even possible some other paths get further in a longer period of time (investing in heavy loss), but this is a highly efficient method to get pretty darn far, pretty darn fast, and be able to *use* the art.

So, if someone is interested in preserving a certain sifu's approach at a certain point in a certain time, like a frame grab of a favorite image from a video, this probably won't be of much interest. If, on the other hand, if someone just wants tangible results in the near-immediate future, this is the only thing I've experienced on the market.

[reneritchie]

BTW Alan: I posted you note up on wingchunkuen.com. Hope that's okay!

[Knifefighter]

Alan,
Will you be posting video clips of your students using the techniques in their MMA matches?

[Ultimatewingchun]

Knifefighter:

Although I've never seen any of Alan Orr's stuff - I have read every word of this thread - and having had conversations with you on other threads about using Wing Chun as part of a MMA -
I'm beginnng to see a real pattern emerge here...

You seem very hostile to (perhaps even feeling threatened by?)...Wing Chun with Catch, or Wing chun with counter-grappling striking techniques...or even Wing Chun mixed with BJJ.

Your unbridled enthusisam for BJJ is really starting to wear a little thin...

You're objecting to such a video BEFORE it is tested in a MMA event ???!!!

Where such strategies and moves as Alan describes would go up against BJJ (in all probability)...Is this what you object to?

Don't make ANY claims 0R EVEN ANY VIDEOS about how to successfully counter BJJ...unless you have FIRST proven that you can beat this martial arts juggernaut known as BJJ...!!!

This is what you seem to be saying...

Have you forgotten (conveniently perhaps?) what Sakuraba did to three different Gracies ?

Using Some kick-boxing mixed with some Catch and some good old Sakuraba ingenuity ?

Are you nervous that mixing an even greater than kick-boxing striking/kicking art - like Wing Chun - with some form of grappling or counter-grappling would even futher endanger the BJJ king-of-the-hill status?

Is that what this is all about? Is this why you're always challenging people's credentials? To somehow head them off at the pass? The pass that might lead to more non-BJJ fighting success?

I hope not...But it is really beginning to look like that - I must tell you.

[Knifefighter]

Originally posted by Ultimatewingchun
.

You seem very hostile to (perhaps even feeling threatened by?)...Wing Chun with Catch, or Wing chun with counter-grappling striking techniques...or even Wing Chun mixed with BJJ.

Your unbridled enthusisam for BJJ is really starting to wear a little thin...

I have no problem with mixing Wing Chun with any grappling style, nor do I have any vested interest in having BJJ be the best.. My problem would be with someone who markets an instructional series about teaching NHB techniques, but has never actually competed and used said techniques (or had students who have) and doesn't mention that in the marketing material.

[Knifefighter]

Originally posted by Ultimatewingchun
Are you nervous that mixing an even greater than kick-boxing striking/kicking art - like Wing Chun
No... you are the one who is starting to wear thin, dude. First you state that catch is the best form of grappling. Now you are stating that Wing Chun is better that kickboxing.

[Ultimatewingchun]

Knifefighter:

Right on both counts.

As fighting arts, per se. But in the final analysis...it's the individual that counts the most.

Anyway - I don't want to hijack this thread.

If you want to continue this - let's do it via private messages.

[Knifefighter]

Originally posted by Ultimatewingchun
Right on both counts. Really, now... So, where all all the wing chun guys that should be in K-1 smoking all the kickboxers?

[Ultimatewingchun]

They're on private message - where you and I belong right about now.

[Knifefighter]

And where are all the catch wrestlers that should be dominating Abbu Dhabi if it is such a superior grappling system?

[Alan Orr]

Hi Guys

Firstly I would like to thank you guys for your
constructive comments:

Sifu Victor Parlati
Ultimatewingchun
reneritchie
AndrewS
KenWingJitsu

Also thanks Rene putting up my details on
www.wingchunkeun.com

This 'Knifefighter' seems to be a anti Wing Chun full
stop. I have seen his other posts on why he thinks Wing
Chun is inferior. Well, as always that's down to who's
doing it. Also its very easy to compare Sport styles
to Wing Chun and say why doesn't Wing Chun beat these
sytles.

That would simple be in that in Wing Chun a lot of our
tools and targets are not allowed. So why would we
fight in these sports also why would we need to prove
it my hurting someone.

Also it would not be a long fight and people would be
more seriouly hurt. As I was trying to say what I
teach HAS been tested in training, in real fights and
in competive sparring( with other schools etc) and
grappling, I have taught guys who fight, but they
where not my own students. Now my own guys will be
fighting. I train with Eddy Millis who is one of the
top trainers for K1 and UFC. So I would say I do know
what the top levels guys are like in these sports. As
for catch and BBJ. I train in grappling. I don't like
the idea that most BBJ who are fighting well in NHB
still say they train in BBJ but are using and training
lots of wrestling. Gi training is cool, but not for
me. I see it as a excellent sport. NHB is still a hard
sport. Most BBJ comps do not allow neck cranks, toe
holds, and so on. Why? because people will get hurt
more. I have no problem with that, but I am clear
enough to see which is sport and which is going to be
real on the street.


Knifefighter said' And where are all the catch
wrestlers that should be dominating Abbu Dhabi if it
is such a superior grappling system?'

Again, watch the fights, they are using lots of
wrestling. Marcelio Garcia has just released some
great BBJ DVD'S, most of it is wrestling mixed into
BBJ. One of the tapes is on armdrags. But I still
think its all good, as everyone learns.


Knifefighter said' Really, now... So, where all all
the wing chun guys that should be in K-1 smoking all
the kickboxers?'

K1 is sport. Again Wing Chun was never developed as a
sport. The NHB Wing Chun DVD I have produced is to
help grapplers with striking as I feel we have something
different to offer and to help Wing Chun guys with
learning to use their skill in a more robust way.

One thing to note is that what I teach is different to
what even most Wing Chun guys have seen or do. So it
would be very hard for you to make a comment on it as
you will not understand how we use our power. This is
the whole point.

My best to you all.

What you train in is not important, learning more is
the key.

Alan

[Ultimatewingchun]

Alan:

Nice post - sounds like you're doing some real good stuff...and with a very realistic attitude about the difference between the street and the ring.

Good luck to your guys,

- Victor

[Knifefighter]

Originally posted by Alan Orr

Also it would not be a long fight and people would be
more seriouly hurt. OH NO!!!
:eek:
Not the old "my techniques are too deadly for the ring" and "we don't want to have to hurt someone to show our stuff" bs.

[Knifefighter]

Originally posted by Alan Orr
I don't like
the idea that most BBJ who are fighting well in NHB
still say they train in BBJ but are using and training
lots of wrestling.

Most BBJ comps do not allow neck cranks, toe
holds, and so on. Why? because people will get hurt
more. Of course BJJ practitioners incorporate takedowns from wrestling. Freestyle, folkstyle, and Greco-Roman wrestling are the best there is as far as takedowns are concerned.

The system itself is based upon stealing Japanese judo/jujutsu techniques, throwing out the inefficient techniques and making the more efficient ones even more so. Over the years, BJJ has appropriated techniques from a variety of different arts. That is why many BJJ practitioners train in boxing, kickboxing, or Muay Thai for standup, and wrestling (freestyle, folkstyle, and Greco-Roman) or Judo for takedowns/throws.

At least you probably won’t have to worry about them stealing techniques from Wing Chun, since BJJ is all about taking what works best and incorporating it into the fighting style.


Originally posted by Alan Orr
Most BBJ comps do not allow neck cranks, toe
holds, and so on.Actually, BJJ competitions do allow toe holds. As far as neck cranks, heel hooks, and spinal twists, that one of my (as well as many other BJJ competitors') chief criticism of BJJ tourneys. That's why many of us compete in open submission grappling tourneys that allow all submissions.

[Ultimatewingchun]

Knifefighter:

After reading your last post...my guess is that you won't be taking up AndrewS on his offer anytime soon...

Unless of course you go watch from behind a curtain somewhere and then go home and steal some of what you saw... calling it BJJ.

[CFT]

Originally posted by Knifefighter
At least you probably won’t have to worry about them stealing techniques from Wing Chun, since BJJ is all about taking what works best and incorporating it into the fighting style.I don't think that all BJJ practitioners hold WC in as much contempt as you do. I guess that is why Rickson Gracie held a joint BJJ & WC seminar with Samuel Kwok in the UK last month?

http://sfuk.tripod.com/bjjnews.html

[old jong]

Originally posted by Knifefighter


At least you probably won’t have to worry about them stealing techniques from Wing Chun, since BJJ is all about taking what works best and incorporating it into the fighting style.



Don't worry,you are not the first or the last who can't understand Wing Chun and think it is not working.There are simpler things to learn for your kind.You could as an example beat your face with a stick to make it tougher.But enough internet teaching.:rolleyes: