Choy Lay Fut Hand Sets List

[Fu-Pow]

Here ya go folks.

Low/Mid Level Forms:

Siu Sup Ji Kuen/ Small Cross Pattern Fist
Ng Lun Ma (aka Lie Ma)/ 5 Wheel Stance Form
Ng Lun Choy (aka Che Kuen)/ 5 Wheel Fist
Jau San Ma, Sei Moon Kiu/ Lively Horse Four Door Bridge
Siu Mui Fa Kuen/ Small Plum Blossom Fist
Siu Sup Ji Kuen/ Small Cross Pattern Fist
Sup Ji Kuen/ Cross Pattern Fist
Sup Ji Jit Fu Kuen/ Cross Pattern Block Tiger Fist
Sup Ji Kau Da Kuen/ Cross Pattern Hook-Strike Fist
Tuet Jin Kuen/Escape the Circle Fist
Tid Jin Cheong Kuen/Iron Arrow Long Fist
Ping Kuen / Level Fist
Ping Jaang Kuen/ Level Elbow Fist
Gong Ji Fook Fu Kuen/ Cross Pattern Tame Tiger Fist
Bak Mo Kuen/ White Hair (Old Man) Fist
Fut Jeong Kuen/ Buddha Palm Fist
Joi Ba Sin Kuen/ 8 Drunken Immortals Fist
Chyun Lung Saap Bak Sik/ 18 Penetrating Dragon Methods
Jo Yauh Dan Geuk Kuen/ Left-right single leg kicking form
Oi lem bic da soi sau yam yeung gung/External yin yang sticky exercise for close fighting and hand breaking


Animal Shape Forms :

Seh Ying Kuen/ Snake Shape Fist
Hok Ying Kuen/ Crane Shape Fist
Seh-Hok Kuen/ Snake-Crane Fist
Pao Ying Kuen/ Leopard Fist
Fu Ying Kuen/ Tiger Shape Fist
Fu-Pao Ying Kuen/ Tiger-Leopard Fist
Lung Ying Kuen/ Dragon Fist
Lung-Fu Ying Kuen/ Dragon-Tiger Fist
Hao Ying Kuen/ Monkey Fist
See Ying Kuen/ Lion Shape Fist
Ma Ying Kuen/ Horse Shape Fist
Jeong Ying Kuen/ Elephant Shape Fist
Biu Ying Kuen/ Golden Flaming Deer Fist
Ng Ying Kuen/ 5 Animal Shape Fist
Sup Ying Kuen/ 10 Animal Shape Fist

Ba Gua Forms:

Bagua Sam Kuen/ Heart of Bagua Fist
Hung Yen Bagua Kuen/ Bear Man Bagua Fist
Siu Bagua Kuen/ Small Bagua Fist
Daai Bagua Kuen/ Big Bagua Fist
Dau Fu Bagua Kuen/ Fighting the Tiger Bagua Fist
Yee Jong Bagua Kuen/ Yee Jong's Bagua Fist
Ng Ying Daai Bagua Kuen/ 5 Animals Big Bagua Fist
Daht Ting Bagua Kuen/ Daht Ting's Bagua Fist
Mui Fa Bagua Kuen/ Plum Blossom Bagua Fist


Internal Forms

Sup Ba Lohan Yik Gun Kuen/ 18 Buddha Tendon Changing
Siu Lohan Kuen/ Small Budda Fist
Daai Lohan Kuen/ Big Buddha Fist
Daai Gik Kuen/ Great Extreme Fist
Mo Gik Kuen/ Empty Fist

Other Internal Excercises:
Stick Excercises
Unicorn Hands
Standing Meditation
Walking Meditation

2-Man Sets:

Da Gau-Sam Sing/ Hit 3-9 Star Blocking
Ng Lun Chak Kuen/ 5 Wheel Fist Exercise
Siu Mui Fa Chak Kuen/ Siu Mui Fa vs. Siu Mui Fa
Sup Ji Chak Siu Mui Fa Kuen/ Sup Ji vs. Sui Mui Fa
Fu Ying Chak Hok Ying Kuen/ Tiger vs. Crane
Seh Ying Chak Hok Ying Kuen/ Snake vs. Crane
Gam Pau Chak Fu Yeng Kuen/ Golden Leopard vs. Tiger
Lung Ying Chak Fu Ying Kuen/ Dragon vs. Tiger
Si Ying Chak Jeong Ying Kuen/ Lion vs. Elephant
Hao Ying Chak Biu Ying Kuen/ Monkey vs. Deer
Jeong Ying Chak Ma Ying Kuen / Elephant vs. Horse

[Fu-Pow]

Weapons and obscure forms are to come.....

[Serpent]

Is this the syllabus from your school Fu-pow? What lineage are you?

[Fu-Pow]

No, not a syllabus. This is a compilation of forms mainly from the Chan Family branch, a lot of which we don't have. This is more like a list of forms that I already know and ones that I'd like to see and possibly be interested in learning. I have included a few forms that are unique to our branch, for example Fu-Pao kuen and Tuet Jin Kuen. We have influence from both Jeong Hung Sing and Chan Family branch.

[alecM]

Fu-Pow, on the list of forms from our school I gave you I listed a form called yat mun kuen. Apparently the correct name should be yap mun kuen.

[Fu-Pow]

AlecM-

I'm going to include that form but I'm including it in "obscure" forms because most lineages don't have it. Not in anyway saying it isn't valuable or isn't CLF.

The rest of list should be posted soon. Will include weapon forms, 2 man weapon forms, dummy forms and "obscure forms."

Cheers

[firepalm]

Ba Gua Long;)

[Fu-Pow]

I haven't seen Ba Gua Long on anyone's form list. Perhaps someone is calling the same form differently than the Chan Family. Maybe Ba Gua Long is the same thing as Ng Ying Daai Ba Gua? This would make sense because they would both include the Long Ying.

[firepalm]

It's 'Long' as in rough translation for brotherhood or something like that. The old Choy Lee Fut book mini mag put out back in the 70s lists it, Wong Ha in Vancouver & Wong Doc Fai also teach it.

Cheers!

[Fu-Pow]

Hmmm...interesting. I didn't see it on the list at plumflower.net. I still think it probably corresponds to one of the forms already on the list. Which one though? The only way I would know is if I saw the forms and I don't see that happening anytime in the near future. I'll add it to the "obscure" list even though it might not be obscure.

Ciao

[Ben Gash]

Fu-Pow, could you quantify how Tuet Jin is unique to your branch?

[CHAZ]

Yeah, I was wondering about that myself, as my school also uses it.

[Ben Gash]

Oh, and Yat Moon Kuen is also found in the Lee Hin and Bak Sing Fut Gar branches. That makes it a bit less obscure ;)

[anton]

Originally posted by Ben Gash
Fu-Pow, could you quantify how Tuet Jin is unique to your branch?

Is that Iron Arrow? If so, Dave Lacey certainly had it on his curriculum, and he teaches Buk Sing. I remember a lot of people considered it their favourite form.

[Mika]

Fu-Pow, you have done a great job!

If you need more information about the internal forms, you know where to go...(this might help a little: http://www.clfma.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=phpBB_14&file=index&action=viewtopic&topic=287&2074)

Tit Jin Cheung Kuen may or may not be the same form as the one discussed here. Spelling is always kind of flexible with these names...

Tit Jin Cheung Kuen is very, very Hung Gar, and that's where it comes from, originally. It has Choy Lee Fut "flavor" (which makes it very different in many people's opinion, not so different in others'), though, and since I have not seen any Hung Gar players perform their version of the form, I am far from being able to say whether this is the case or not or what that would even mean, really. But it does feel very different from the other forms I have learned and it corresponds to the idea I have of Hung Gar.

A lot of elbows (blocks), a lot of cheung ngan choi's, very mobile, a lot straight lines both in footwork and in strikes (although there are several other patterns involved, too, like 45 degree stepping and sow chui's)...sound similar at all?

Oh yeah, extremely long (about 350 moves, depending on the way one counts them). If I am not mistaken, it is one of the longest forms in Choy Lee Fut.

Good luck completing the list :)

//mika

[Ben Gash]

The Tuet Jin I know (which is very similar to LKH/TMW's) isn't Hung like in the least. Indeed, it's probably one of the most representative CLF sets. Also, there is no Tuet Jin in Hung Gar. There's a Tuet Sin (Iron thread) which is a hard Qigong set in the iron shirt mould.

[Mika]

Then I must be mistaken. Maybe it's another form that I am thinking of now. Like I said, spelling might pose a problem or two every once in a while...;)

But the translation given to me was Iron Arrow or Iron Spear. Anton used the same translation.

I think that what is representative of Choy Lee Fut and what is not is a matter of opinion to a degree. Choy Lee Fut is so, so wide in its material.

It's kind of hard to explain, but let's say Siu Mui Fa is more the kind of Choy Lee Fut with which I am familiar. If you then see the difference, then we might be talking about the same form. If you don't see the difference, we still might be talking about the same form..:D

But the length is a dead giveaway, I think.

Nonetheless, same form or not, Chan Family Choy Lee Fut has that kind of form, whether it has anything to do with the form discussed here or not...:)

Cheers,

Mika

[Mika]

Here's a site: http://www.geocities.com/Colosseum/Bleachers/1728/hungforms.html

And the form I am referring to is called Tiet Sien Kuen (iron wire form). It's the third form from the top (one of the three core forms of Hung Gar).

How different this form is from the Choy Lee Fut form that I have learned, I do not know. But I am told this is the basis for the form by the same (or very similar) name in the Choy Lee Fut system. And to me it feels very different from other CLF forms and is very much alike the little Hung Gar I have seen.

Maybe JoeX could elaborate?

//mika

[Gwa Sow Chop]

One huge problem with compilations and generalizations......

One problem, for instance with the form Sup Chi.(or dai sup chi)
I have learnt it from 3 differant lineages, and have 3 TOTALLY different forms.

We are assuming that the forms are the same. But alas it is often not so. The only similarity is in name only.

Dont get me wrong, I am not saying that all the sets are differant in all lineages....just that when lineage A says "Do you do XYZ set?" and they reply "yes we do XYZ also".....it dosent mean anything other than "we also have a set NAMED XYZ".

You really have to compare and visualized the set to see if they are the same. Bec ause they often aren't, especially as you compare the other branches of CLF.

Now, a visual cataloge put together by the interrested parties....that would be better. THEN you can compare
apples with apples.

Train hard

GSC

[Fu-Pow]

Tid Jin Cheong Kuen=Iron Arrow Long Fist
Tuet Jin Kuen= "Escape the Circle" or "Break Holds" Fist

Totally different Chinese Characters.

I actually should have included Tid Jin Cheong Kuen to the list. Originally I thought it was a form that was unique to Doc Fai Wong/Lau Bun lineage but now I see that it is quite common place.

[extrajoseph]

Someone pointed this article out to me when we were talking about Bagua sets, you may find it useful to your research.

http://www.clfma.com/modules.php?op=modload&name=Sections&file=index&req=viewarticle&artid=50&page=1

JX

[Fu-Pow]

Thanks for that link XJ.

I edited a few more into the list.

Tid Jin Cheong Kuen
External Yin Yang Sticky Hands
Left-Right Single Leg Kicking form

[SifuX-HSK]

why would anyone want to learn every form in choy lee fut anyway? when would you have the time in your busy schedules to perfect each and every single choy lee fut form? because what it all comes down to is how you use your choy lee fut.

forgive me for coming on strong i am not in a good mood, but this has ignited me to respond. so forgive me in advance.

who cares if one branch has more forms to learn than the other? the buk sing branch supposedly has only 3 clf forms in their teachings, but they are well known for their fighting prowess.
does that make them any less of a clf school?

the chan clan has all these sets and claim they are exclusive to the chan family. first of all they are only exclusive to the chan family because the chan family create these forms and teach them to their people only. therefore, their forms are exclusively chan. but you come to our school you will learn jow yau biu ser, and fu pow will call that an obscure form because it is not on the chan family list of sets.

well, check this out, the chan family sets are the ones obscure because they are not taught in the hung sing schools around the world that have pure fut san hung sing kwoon in their lineages!!!
fu pow, for you to say that anything not chan family sets are obscure is utterly rediculous!!!!!!!! i am sorry for coming on so strong, but ......oh never mind!!!!!!!!!

who can say truthfully and honestly what was created when jeong yim and chan heung began creating forms for their schools.
who is to say that forms were actually taught back then? who is to say that maybe choy lee fut only started out as techniques and was later built from their.

according to the fut san hung sing kwoon, the fut san ping kuen, cheung kuen, and i think it was kau da was created by chan ngau sing himself after the death of jeong hung sing. all three sets were created from one large set called in and out ba gwa given to jeong yim by the green grass monk.

in and out ba kwa contained 1080 moves and chan ngau sing broke it up into 3 forms.

the chan family does not have these forms as we have them. so then who has the obscure forms?

so fu pow, all fingers do not point to the chan family because as you know this is a touchie subject, but chan family clf is NOT the begining, and is NOT the end of Choy Lee Fut. you have all of the true hung sing and buk sing kwoons against the chan family. this battle will not be won this way.

if you want to be true to the choy lee fut your founder chan heung, and my founder jeong hung sing created together you must list all the sets taught from each and every school of choy lee fut or else you will look like a chan family supporter only looking out for the good of the chan family.

if you want to be honest, list my schools sets, the sets from the fut san hung sing kwoon, all the buk sing sets, all singapore hsk sets, macau's sets, indonesia's sets, vietnam's sets, etc, etc.

are you telling me they are not choy lee fut because the sets they have in their lineage were no created by chan heung? did'nt chan heung create these forms himself? is he not a man? a human being? those forms were not handed down to chan heung from god himself!!!!!!

if you created a form, if joseph created a form if i created a form, you better be **** sure it will be choy lee fut cause at least from my end, choy lee fut is all i know. if chan heung, a mere male human being can create forms to advance his "family exclusive system" then anyone creating a form-as long as they do not include techniques from outside systems-is truly creating a "Choy Lee Fut form"!!! who are you to say it is not true clf because it wasn't created by chan heung.

oh well, sorry

frank

[SifuX-HSK]

iron arrow is not taught in the lau bun branch of hung sing choy lee fut.

if doc fai wong teaches it he learned it somewhere else.

another form fu pow forgot to add was um ying ba kwa kuen,
jow yau pow choy
cloud piercing spear,
and much more.

frank

[Ben Gash]

"who cares if one branch has more forms to learn than the other?"
Um, at what point were any of us talking about that?
"why would anyone want to learn every form in choy lee fut anyway?"
Curiosoty? Enjoyment? A challenge? Because they're there?

[CLFNole]

Frank:

Why don't you send Fu Pow your list of forms. I am sure he would add them to the mix. I think he was just compiling a list of CLF forms not Chan Family forms.

Ng Ying Baat Kwa was included and is seen in both lines.

I agree with you 100% that no one needs to know all of these sets nor is anyone likely to learn them all. However just because someone knows lets say 30 sets and another knows 5-10, it doesn't mean either is more CLF or better because of it. I know people who know only a few sets that are very good and some who know a lot sets that are also very good. That being said I know people that know a few sets and suck and others that know a lot of sets and suck.

Bottom line is kung fu is about the individual, not their lineage or pedigree. Its about how much time, effort and sweat they out in to learn, develop and understand our style. Hung sing, buk sing and Chan family, its all CLF, we have the same root system steming from the shaolin tree.

Peace.

[SifuX-HSK]

first of all i agree that learning more sets can be fun and exciting and keep you from being bored. but let me ask a question?.......

can any of you who have learned more than 10 sets now, honestly say you are a master of these forms? do you truly understand these forms inside and out. do you know each and every usage from each set without getting them mixex up?

my big gripe was fu pow saying anything not on the chan's plum blossom list of sets was obscure. that was a pretty single sided comment. what about the buk sing branches sets? what about the hung sing kwoons all around the world, not every school is going to have the same sup ji kau da?!

i wish if he is going to list choy lee fut sets then make a list which includes each and every set from every choy lee fut school out there. i am sure that list will contain more than 400 sets in total with all three branches contributing.

yes in the definition of obscure, a choy lee fut set exclusive to one branch may be obscure...not easily recognizable by another branch, but to say it is only obscure because it is not a chan set makes me mad.

frank

[Sho]

A bit side-tracked, but I was just wondering which particular schools use the name Che Kuen as an equivalent of Ng Lun Choy? I have noticed that Lee Koon Hung's instructional poster is entitled 'Ng Lun Choy', but then again some Hung Sing schools use Che Kuen. So, are they the exact same forms - regardless of the differences between lineages - in a similar way as, for example, the Chan Family Siu Moi Fa Kuen is akin to the Hung Sing Siu Moi Fa Kuen?

[CLFNole]

Certain names are interchangeable.

My sifu, Lee Koon Hung used both names Li Ma/Ng Lun Ma and Che Kuen/Ng Lun Choy. The correct technical names are Ng Lun Ma and Ng Lun Choy. I believe Li Ma and Che Kuen are kind of slang names.

Peace.

[TenTigers]

does anyone know the sets in Buk Sing Choy Lay Fut? I have heard that they only have about 4-5 sets. It would be interesting to see these sets as well.

[Ben Gash]

In the line that I know:
Yat Moon Kuen
Gay Boon Kuen
Lien Wan Kuen
Sup Ji Kuen
Sup Ji Jin Kuen
Lien Wan Jin Kuen

[CLFNole]

I think some buk sing sifu's have added additional sets but from what I know and from the buk sing sifus I have spoken to the core sets are:

Sup Gee Kuen
Kow Dah Kuen
Sup Gee Kow Dah Kuen
Ping Kuen

Some also say that Sheung Garp Dan Tow Kwun (Single & Double End Staff) is the only original weapon set.

Peace.

[Sho]

Thanks, CLFNole.

[TenTigers]

Are the sets in Leo Fong's books Buk Sing CLF? He performs Lien Wan Kuen, and Chueng Kuen. Have you seen these sets? How close are they ? What are the differences/similarities?

[CLFNole]

I believe both sets were added in later. Never seen either form.

I know Lien Wan Kuen is a Ching Mo/Chin Woo set but I would think this one has more of a CLF flare. Likely alot of lien wan chop choy's, but that is merely speculation.

Cheong Kuen could have come from the hung sing branch.

Peace.

[SifuX-HSK]

the cheung kuen leo fong does is from lau bun since he learned from lau bun for a short time.

fut san has a cheung kuen that is hella long in comparison to ours. i have just finished learning the first half of the fut san cheung kuen.

when compared to fut san's che kuen lau buns cheung keun are halfway similar. lau buns version has more techniques in it than che kuen does.

frank

[Fu-Pau]

Originally posted by CLFNole
Some also say that Sheung Garp Dan Tow Kwun (Single & Double End Staff) is the only original weapon set.


There is a Single & Double End Staff set in Chow Gar (Jow Ga) also (funnily enough) called Seung Garp Dan Kwun.

It is interesting to note that one of the early sifu's in the Bak Sing lineage (Kong On) was originally a Chow Gar student under Chow Lung, before Chow Lung passed away.

What I have always wondered is, "is it the same set? or is it (as is often the case) a different set with the same name?"

[CLFNole]

Probably a different set with the same name. Sheung Gap Dan Kwun means single combined with double head staff.

Peace.

[Fu-Pau]

You are probably correct, but does anyone know?

[CLFNole]

Well CLF's form was around well before Koon On and in fact was around before his sifu Tam Sam learned. Jow Gar is not as old as CLF so the CLF version likely came first. I have heard that a couple of the 5 Jow Gar Tigers may have had some CLF training and possibly incorporated their version of the set into Jow Gar.

Peace.

[Fu-Pau]

I've never heard of any of the Chow brothers learning CLF?

Chow Lung of course learned Choy Gar which, along with Hung Gar, became the primary basis for Chow Gar. But I have never heard that they did CLF? Do you have anything you could refer me to on that?

(I know some websites mistakenly refer to Chow Lung learning CLF, when in fact it was Choy Gar.)

[kung-fu tiger]

Hello!!!

My name is Ismael. I am from Mexico and I practice Choy Lee Fat. I want to answer the following questions to me, please.

Of that branch of Choy Lee Fat is the form Yat Moon Kuen?

Who is the representant or Grand Master of that branch?

I wait that you answer this questions please.

Sorry for the spelling mistakes but I don´t speak english very good.

Thanks.

ISMAEL

[ChinoXL]

Very helpful indeed.. :D can yu list forms from tai shing pek kwar.. many akas.. dai shing pek kwar, dai shing pi qua :( i can't find dem..

[Wood Dragon]

Bit late, I know. But...


I thought "Gong Ji Fook Fu Kuen/ Cross Pattern Tame Tiger Fist" was a Hung Gar set. Isnt it the very foundation of the style?


Is this the same set, or simply a case of identical names/different sets?

[iron_silk]

Actually I wanted to double check on 2 forms mentioned here:

1) Yat/Yup Moon Kuen - doesn't that translate as "enter door fist" meaning "intro fist set" making the name kind of generic and probably made up by an instructor at some point to give new students some easier to learn basics (or more interesting?)

2) Gay Boon Kuen - doesn't that translate as "basic fist" ie containing the basic movements? and reasoning probably the same as above.

That is just my 2 cents...I'm not particularily sure but thought I would bring it up since no one else has.

Thanks :)

[kei lun]

Gei Boon Keun means "basic" fist, according to the reading of the characters.
This form was created by Lun Chee as a beginning form for CLF, as I have read on Vince Lacey's homepage. Ive learned it and its a pretty good set.

[Eddie]

We have gei boon yat and gei boon yee, but these are very much entry level forms. I think they are great to teach basics specially to people with no prior MA experience. We do these two sets every single night as part of basic training before class start, even with advanced students.

The first CLF form I learbed was Che Kuen, and I recall it was pretty stricky sometimes to get to know the different moves and then remember iot too. I think students who learn these two basic sets first, have it easier when they get to other forms.

[kup choi]

Tit jin chern kuen, the form as i know it, is very long and has all the characteristics of a CLF form, and does not resemble Hung gar at all.

Yat moon kuen, as far as i know it was made up by my sigung, and was made up for beginners to help them learn the basics of CLF. Does anyone know any different?

[Lama Pai Sifu]

Gei Boon Kuyhnn.

Does anyone have this any of these sets on video? I would like to see some of the other school's basic or entry level sets.

Let me know.

[Eddie]

check the Lee Koon Hung Association Website. there are pics of Gei Boon Kuen