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[matthewjumps]

To clarify, I do believe in literal demons, as in spirit beings with individual personalities that are the opposite of angelic spirits. I believe in heaven as a realm that is not part of the physical universe, but instead a seperate...dimension, I suppose, for lack of a better word.
I believe that demons enjoy tormenting, possesing and fooling humans, as they are sadistic in nature. Examples of demonic activity are common in countries like Africa, where witch doctors use them to actually kill people, there have been recorded cases of witch doctors summoning demons to literally rip peoples heads off, break their necks, and even rape them.
I know people who used to use demons to foretell the future, to see where sicknesses were in patients bodies, and many other things. They now have nothing to do with demonic activity, but they are still troubled by demons.
The point of mentioning demons in the first place was that a lot of techniques that involve Qi Gong (such as light-weight Qi Gong) seem to involve demonic aid, even though the practitioner may not be aware of it.
I personally like the concept of Qi Gong in that it involves strengthening your body, increases your power and grants abilities that the average Joe couldnt attain. I view Qi Gong, not as a spiritually enlightening process, but as a physically awakening/enlightening process. Spirituality should be attained on a much higher plane, not by exercising your body and mind etc. So called "oneness with the universe" is not the purpose of human life.
I wonder if any scientists have studied the bodies of say, Shaolin monks while they do iron body Qi Gong or other unbelievable techniques, to see how the body creates and distributes the energy necessary to achieve the technique.

[Repulsive Monkey]

Your comment "So called "oneness with the universe" is not the purpose of human life" troubles me a tad.
What do you suggest then is the purpose of human life?
Are you suggesting that Taoism, Buddhism and even Christianity are developing the laiety in the wrong directions?
Qi gong is not just for the body you know, there are some qi gongs that are very specific for spiritual development and very valid ones too.

I have never encountered ever the use of Demons in Light-skills qi gong as it just doesn't make sense and have never heard of such irrelevances, can you explain what part these demons actually play in qi gong as I can't see the connection meself!

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

If i may contribute here.. the following represents the sum of my experiences as tempered by the evolution of my beliefs, nothing is "fixed" for me, but.. so far this model works best for me..

As i understand and believe.. the "purpose" of life is to have experiences.. to do so without qualification, man made the rules, The One simply set things in motion..

In the beginning there was only One thing (name it what you choose).. it could not even know itself, no feedback, no mirrors, no "others" to interact with, all it could know is "I AM".. so, in a supreme act it divided itself into a universe of many "Ones", yet each One is connected to each other One.. this division could be called the "big bang", or creation, etc... the purpose was so the Supreme One could experience itself, know itself through the "experiences" of its many Ones.. as necessary to help the many Ones, the Original One (still existing as collective consciousness principle) manifests whatever the Many Ones hold as True, the tool that is most misunderstood.. In a masterful act of wisdom, the Original One set no rules, that would confine its understanding of what it "is" and it seeks Truth of self, just like its many Ones..

So, by my understanding, the "purpose" is to experience each other fully, completely and with gusto.. You like demons, the universe will hand you demons.. you like science, the universe will set your reality in logical order.. choose, believe and experience.. We are the eyes and ears of "God", whatever you believe that to be..

Be well.. sorry for the interjected philosophy..

[QuaiJohnCain]

I normally don't have patience for this kind of thing, but...

You will probably take this post as a flame, fine, but you make it clear that you are here to start s**t.


Originally posted by matthewjumps
To clarify, I do believe in literal demons, as in spirit beings with individual personalities that are the opposite of angelic spirits. I believe in heaven as a realm that is not part of the physical universe, but instead a seperate...dimension, I suppose, for lack of a better word.
I believe that demons enjoy tormenting, possesing and fooling humans, as they are sadistic in nature. Examples of demonic activity are common in countries like Africa, where witch doctors use them to actually kill people, there have been recorded cases of witch doctors summoning demons to literally rip peoples heads off, break their necks, and even rape them.
I know people who used to use demons to foretell the future, to see where sicknesses were in patients bodies, and many other things. They now have nothing to do with demonic activity, but they are still troubled by demons.
As Bob pointed out in the Qi thread, your "beliefs" will shape your perceptions. But "beliefs" have little, if anything to do with reality. As for the countries that still have witch doctors- have you noticed that they're in the friggin STONE AGE? Technologically and culturally. The Roman Catholic church used to see SCIENCE as "demonic". Scapegoating thier own STUPIDITY onto those "demons"...

The point of mentioning demons in the first place was that a lot of techniques that involve Qi Gong (such as light-weight Qi Gong) seem to involve demonic aid, even though the practitioner may not be aware of it.
Oh, us poor heathens! We didn't have a clue. Thank you for warning us, I will stop my practices now. How come you know so much about demons and we don't. Perhaps you are the one "in league" with them.


I personally like the concept of Qi Gong in that it involves strengthening your body, increases your power and grants abilities that the average Joe couldnt attain. I view Qi Gong, not as a spiritually enlightening process, but as a physically awakening/enlightening process. Spirituality should be attained on a much higher plane, not by exercising your body and mind etc. So called "oneness with the universe" is not the purpose of human life.
It is not any "concept" that strengthens the body, increases power, etc. It's time, effort, and hard work, i.e., KUNG FU. Qigong sees the body, mind and "spirit" as ONE THING. By exercising the body and mind, one exercises the spirit. But to project a heirarchy onto it is just silly. You can direct your body with your mind, but it's your body and it's five senses that taught your mind everything it knows and works with. No heirarchy. HARMONY. Where does spirit come in? Well just ask yourself, who/what is experiencing and operating through the mind and body RIGHT NOW? And is it/that objective to mind and body, or subjected to them? Both? Neither? Oneness is not a goal or purpose, it just IS. You can participate in it (harmony) or you can reject it, which is really just self-denial, since everything you know and are comes through the body and mind.

I wonder if any scientists have studied the bodies of say, Shaolin monks while they do iron body Qi Gong or other unbelievable techniques, to see how the body creates and distributes the energy necessary to achieve the technique. [/B]
Yes, they have. And they found that 90% of the "feats" that you see Shaolin monks do are just age old parlour tricks.

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings...

I have waited to respond to a particular comment .. so, please don't take this as anything other than my own understanding of things.. certainly not as me asserting "truth"...


But "beliefs" have little, if anything to do with reality.

If you consider that "reality", as we know it, cannot be anything other than individual conceptualizations of individual experiences, then.. beliefs have everything to do with reality.. we may each have the same experience (ie: taste an orange, burn our hand, etc...) but each of us will interpret those experiences into our own "realities" differently.. it is impossible to have exactly the same interpretation of an experience.. we may negotiate a consensus of agreement about certain situations, but.. our individual "realities" are all we have.. even the agreed consensus escapes the definition of a fixed reality.. everyone agrees to modify their beliefs in some gesture to promote harmony, but.. their beliefs still define their experience.. in fact, the moment we communicate what we believe to be a "reality" experience to another, it changes by the confines of language and interpretation of the listener.. although there may be common experiences, there are an infinite number of realities (considering that reality itself is a "concept").. It is our beliefs that filter the experience into the mind, it is our beliefs that shape our responses to stimulus.. only the fortunate few have disciplined themselves to shut down the thought process in favor of a direct experience..

I know this is a bit off topic, but i "believe" it has value in our quest for truth, for the direct experience.. Truth is the experience itself, not the words, labels and judgements we assign to it..

Any way.. be well.. the above is just the way "i" see things, nothing more...

[Repulsive Monkey]

Taichibob - what you have just promulgated there is brilliant, in fact I totally agrre with you and would go as far as to say that when you finnish it off with that its your opinion, I would amend that to what you have faith in.
I have only just recently been involved in a not too dissimilar debate with someone who challenged the idea of that there is no no truth or ultimate reality there is just the realities of everyone and they are all real. They went onto to say that they didn't like the idea that I thought there was one reality and that most people, apart from a minority, aren't perceiving it.
Of course I said that it is there to perceive but and it is totally perceivable, but most people filter out the more subtle and profound apsects of reality due to experience, up-bringing, being under-cultivated etc.

I feel belief is the dillussion of ego warming to one impermant idea over another, based upon other similar ideas that have gone before, trying to intellectually validify it, sometimes by perrr pressure, and sometimes out of blind choice.

[dwid]

In the beginning there was only One thing (name it what you choose).. it could not even know itself, no feedback, no mirrors, no "others" to interact with, all it could know is "I AM".. so, in a supreme act it divided itself into a universe of many "Ones", yet each One is connected to each other One.. this division could be called the "big bang", or creation, etc... the purpose was so the Supreme One could experience itself, know itself through the "experiences" of its many Ones.. as necessary to help the many Ones, the Original One (still existing as collective consciousness principle) manifests whatever the Many Ones hold as True, the tool that is most misunderstood.. In a masterful act of wisdom, the Original One set no rules, that would confine its understanding of what it "is" and it seeks Truth of self, just like its many Ones..

Very interesting ideas TaiChiBob. Very similar to some things I have considered. I would add to this that the disollution of the ego, the big boat of the Mahayana, or however you look at it... the end result being everyone finding their way back to the oneness represents one complete cycle by the one or perhaps the end of a universe as we know it and the beginning of a new one to start the whole process over again. I've put kind of a sci-fi spin on it based on some ideas I have about the future of artificial intelligence, but I'm not sure I want to throw those out right at the moment...
anyway, if the hijack continues, this may prove to be a very interesting thread.
:)

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings...

Thanks and.. <humble bows>.. but, these concepts are those of others that i simply find value in.. i only restate those concepts with my own "flavor"..

Surely there is One reality, one Truth.. but, it is like the target.. we keep shooting at the target and we keep missing in some personal way, some personal interpretation.. ( on a real good day i might hit it, but the moment i do i celebrate and it goes away.. aarrggghhh).. the important thing is to keep aiming at the target.. looking for the closest thing to the "truth" we can perceive.. if i accept the experience as the "truth" then i can discount my personal interpretation as just that and return to the experience rather than get lost in my mental masturbations.. it is through my meditation, my Taiji and my Qigong that i learn to still the mind and let the experience impact my spirit directly.. then, it becomes part of "who i am", rather than another entry into my mental filing cabinet.. (which is way too cluttered)...

Thanks again, and.. BE well...

[dwid]

Agreed.

I try to make a habit of not believing in any thing absolutely, least of all my ideas.

Truth seems fleeting.

Still, it's fun to consider these things.

[Repulsive Monkey]

Nice one Dwid,

as a translation of what the Buddha once said in layman's terms:

Never totally believe in someone else's belief system, and never totally believe in your own belief system.