Kettlebell

[Ford Prefect]

Well as I get on in my training experiment here, I have to say that I'm further impressed with kettlebell training. While it does have some glaring weaknesses, it has many more benefits. I think that kettlebell training would be a great way for beginner's to spend their first year or two concentrating on. Now that I'm using the 72 lbs KB's, I have new respect for some of the movements because they seem to hit muscles they didn't before with lighter models.

One glaring weakness I see is that at the heaviest in dragondoor's catalogue, you'll still only be front squatting 175 lbs. Not a bad front squat, but the legs aren't maximally loaded enough for sustained progress. This is counter balanced with the the strengthening of the posterior chain which I find impressive especially if you're double snatching 88 lbs kettlebells. The dynamic nature of the movement will somewhat simulate a max effort lift, but it still lacks neuro-muscular feedback loop stimulation and psychological aspects of lifting heavy. Even pistol'ing two 88 lbs KB's is still only a 350 lbs squat... While that's more respectful, it's not impressive.

Now this may be remedied with various lead-shot loaded kettlebells. For instance, I've found a kettlebell that when maximally loaded with shot will weight 195 lbs. Not too shabby. I'd prefer to use a solid kettlebell though. This obviously isn;t a factor for a novice since a 175 lbs overhead press is impressive, and a 175 lbs snatch is a lot more than impressive, but the weight will become a limitting factor for stronger lifters and once these kb junkies training now have been doing it for a few more years.

All that being said, the kb's train the whole body as a unit and can train the body in unique ways. You can do isolation work and be creative with them as well. They train your maximal strength initially, endurance, and cardio-vasular endurance. (though I think you still need low impact cardio exercise to be "fit") They train the hip extension wonderfully which has great carry over to athletics. There are holes and areas that they don't hit, but the same can be said of any implement; be it barbell, kettlebell, calesthenic, etc.

[rubthebuddha]

thanks for the writeup, ford.

what do you see as other holes in kb training?

and where does everyone get their kbs? i won't mind paying $90 or so for one, but to almost match that in shipping gets a little annoying. anyone found any cheaper options than dragondoor?

[IronFist]

^ No, but my new gym has two 8kg ones and two 16kg ones :)

Remember those 6,000lbs balls that were posted on the main forum? I bet you could have one of those made into a kettlebell. :D

[Ford Prefect]

Hey Rub,

The holes are just the normal holes you find in anything. Calesthenics would be better for low-intensity muscular endurance, running would be better for long sustained effort endurance and cardio health, weights would be better for maximal strength, etc etc. No one thing is really complete. Basically the SAID rule. I've went from thinking they are niche-marketing tool that could be good for some things to a viable training methodology that one could have results with for quite some time. (before weight becomes non-challenging)

There are plenty of things you can do with 88 lbs kbs and a lot of different and unique ways to train with kbs, but eventually this will come to a head and progress will stall without increased resistance. I'll try a shot loaded KB, but if that doesn't do the trick, I might just have a foundry go to work for me. Either way, I could see beginner's gleaning a huge benefit from them for a couple years. I could also see more experienced guys that aren't elite level guys (like me since i don't squat 700 lbs ;) ) getting benefits from focusing on them in between other lifting protocols.

BTW, Dragondoor's shipping prices have gone down a lot since the beginning.

[Suntzu]

so are you going KB only for a spell?...

[Ford Prefect]

Yeah. I'm prepping for my upcoming marriage/house purchase. The gym will be cut out of the budget, so I have to come up with a way to train. So far I have a versa climber, 8kg KB (for the lady), 2 16 kg KB's, 2 24 kg KB's, 2 32 kg KB's, 2 10 lbs Clubbells (for the lady), 2 15 lbs clubbells (originally for me but now for the mrs), and 2 25 lbs clubbells.

Up next is a rowing ergometer, 2 45 lbs CB's, 2 88 lbs KB's, and a treadmill. Maybe an elliptical too. Evenentually a power rack, weight set, and bench. I have all my old stuff too like a heavy bag, dragging sled, etc etc.

[Pork Chop]

I need a house

I would love to invest in kbells and not have to worry about wakin up early to make it to the gym... but unfortunately all the roofs in the apartments out here are like midget low... a kbell snatch could have me punchin drywall...

Heck if i could have a home gym it'd be as cool as suntzu's :p

[Toby]

Originally posted by Ford Prefect
Up next is a rowing ergometer
What kind? I dream of a Concept II, but don't really have the space or cash.

Again, good luck with marriage/house.

[fa_jing]

I disagree about the pistols, though. The heaviest pistol I ever heard of was double 70KG pistols for 3-5 reps by Steve Cotter.

Your math is off, too. I would roughly equate it with 2 x KB weight + 1 x BW. Because you are pushing up your whole bodyweight with one leg, instead of two, which effectively doubles your bodyweight related to the squat. So your 175 pound pistol is more like a 525 lb squat.

Think about it, can you do a pistol with 2 X 53 lbs = 100 lbs?

And then the leverage issue, makes it even harder than a back squat.

[fa_jing]

I like Kettlebells because they are an easy way to do the Olympic lifts, and are less intense. I miss the barbell work, though, and going to higher percent of 1RM. Thing is, I have only the 24s right now. I'm getting the 32s soon. Honestly, when you can do 1 x 20 rock-bottom Front Squats with the 88lbs, and 10 reps standing MP with the 88lber on either arm, then I will believe that you have outgrown the weights. You will also be one of the top KB lifters in the states.

At the same time, they are not the ideal tool for anything except GPP. However, it is a most excellent GPP.

They aren't ideal for bodybuilding, for instance.

One thing you should do along with the KB's is weighted sternum pullups.

[Ford Prefect]

I do a lot of weighted pull-up work. ;)

That's kind of the reason why I say they are good for beginners. A 20-rep 180 lbs front squat and 10 reps of a 180 pount military press are certainly respectable. No doubt about it. It's not impressive though, and I'm sure there are guys at most gyms in america that could equal or exceed that. Heck, I'll be able to do that with KB's within a year. I'm not even trying to brag. I mean it to show that it's a very ordinary feat of strength. Double snatching the 88's off the floor is something else though especially if catch them in a full overhead squat. ;)

The weight is a serious limitting factor of getting the real strong guys involved with KB's I think.

[fa_jing]

Well, they aren't ideal for most weightlifter's primary goals: Either bodybuilding and/or 1RM in the power lifts. They can help you some with reaching the above goals, actually, but their use in these two regards is limited.

For being an all-around strength/conditioning badass, though, they are great. And the exception to the above is, heavy kettlebell swings and gripwork will help your deadlift numbers. There are some people that actually use a 150 lb kettlebell for swings or 1-arm clean pulls.

1-legged deadlift is another great exercise - work up to sets of 5 with 80 KG. I think after that you'll want something heavier, though, rather than go above those reps.

LL Cool J works out with 100 lb dumbells on the seated military press - so if you could double press the 88 lbs 10 times, you'd be nearly as stacked as LLCJ. That's pretty darn stacked. You do need to supplement with bench though, or weighted pushups. For me though, I do not desire an powerlifter's chest, and don't have access to a bench right now. I want to bench press and do other barbell work for 6 months out of the year and just do kettlebells for the other 6 months - we'll see though. I may be moving and getting a new job very soon.

BTW Ford, check out a seminar with Steve Cotter if you can! Or Steve Maxwell, for that matter. It will greatly enrich your kettlebell training experience.

Don't forget about other cool goals, like double 88lb windmills, bottoms-up clean and presses, alternating snatches and cleans with various rythyms, Sots presses, hack squats. Do Snatch pulls with the 40kg, you'll like it.

[IronFist]

Um, am I the only one that doesn't think Pistols are anything like barbell squats?

[IronFist]

Originally posted by fa_jing
1-legged deadlift is another great exercise - work up to sets of 5 with 80 KG.

When I first read that I thought you said "5 sets OF 80" I was like holy crap! :eek:


LL Cool J works out with 100 lb dumbells on the seated military press

That's hardcore. How do you know that?


Sots presses,

What are those?

[fa_jing]

Originally posted by IronFist


That's hardcore. How do you know that?



Interview in Muscle & Fitness or one of those magazines.
I don't think he does any heavy leg work, just runs alot.


What are those? [/B]

Sots press is a 1 or 2 arm military press done from the bottom position of a low front squat. The angle makes it harder to press.
Good exercise, and a good way to make the MP more challenging a particular weight.

[vingtsunstudent]

just a quick point on the difference in pressing 40 kg bells compared to dumbells.

a couple of friends of mine were over last week to check my bells, they are both big islander boys who are also both strong as bulls.

the main lifts they focus on are simply overhead press, deadlifts, squats, chins, rows and a little bit of bench, they also work things like power cleans and snatches with barbells.

they were really surprised at how much heavier the KB's come off as compared to barbells and believe me they tried quite a few different lifts with them while they were testing them. as an example one of them does sets of 12 reps with 45kg dumbells for overhead press and after warming up a little was only able to manage 3, with poor form i might add, with the 40kg bells.

mind you the other one did belt out 7 reps with his right arm(for some reason he didn't bother trying with his left) and that was dammmmm impressive to watch.

as to needing heavier, it's funny that this should come up because like we talked about, if you could get to the stage of doing 5 x 5 double military press with good form with the 40's you would be a freak, as to double front squats and then even the thought of 2 of them in rack postition whilst doing pistols and them not ever being heavy enough, well that's for those who have used them to decide whether or not you'd just be being greedy in wanting to be any stronger than that.:D

vts

by the way, i can nowhere near press one of them suckers, god dang they're heavy.

[IronFist]

Originally posted by fa_jing
Sots press is a 1 or 2 arm military press done from the bottom position of a low front squat.

:eek:

[mickey]

Hi Ford,

There have been improvements to the kettlebell design. The ones that are currently in rage are nothing more than exercises in nostalgia. Do a search on "ironhorse kettlebells." You will get to Piedmont Design Associates. Their kettlebells are plate loadable; something that just might interest you. Ironmind also has a plate loading kettlebell but I tend to agree with the people at Piedmont that all that weight on a single pin is not good.

They have lots of other fun toys as well.

I hope you will find something that fits your needs.

mickey

[IronFist]

I'd always heard that the plate loadable ones and the ones where you can change the weight were not as good as the oldschool kind.

I've seen two kinds, both of which I heard aren't as good as the one piece kind that Pavel promotes. Here I'll draw them for you. I forgot who makes which kind, tho.

[fa_jing]

I've heard that the plate-loaded kettlebells tear up your arms on cleans and snatches. They are fine for everything else, though.

The Russians are now using shot-loaded kettlebells, which are hollow, a standard size, and you fill them with BB's or something. The bottom is a cap that unscrews so that you can fill it up or remove weight. These are not available in the US, however. I prefer the solid metal bells, myself, but I agree that they are expensive and it's difficult for many of us to come up with the loot to get the next size up when we are ready for it.

[mickey]

Drawing #1 - From Piedmont Design

Drawing #2 - From IronMind

The shot loadable ones are available at Action Athletic.


mickey

[Ford Prefect]

Shot loaded are also available at atomic athletic and detroit barbell....

Gonna write more but in recovery mode. ;)

[fa_jing]

I found the shot-loaded KB's offered by Action Athletic here

http://www.atomicathletic.com/shop/tek9.asp?pg=products&specific=jodmipc0


The only thing that I would caution, is that the handle thickness is only 1 and a quarter inches. The official competition-sized handle is 1-3/8 inches, and you would feel the difference. Basically you want it at least that thick, so you can work your grip and so the bell doesn't flip over too fast on the snatches.

It would be nice to hear from someone who's tried the Action Athletic bells, though.

[Ford Prefect]

Fajing,

Detroit Barbell www.detroitbarbell.com offers handle sizes in 1", 1.5", 2", and 3" options. Their shot loaded KB's also go up to 195 lbs. Good luck with that beast!

[rubthebuddha]

195 lb. kb? holy ... um ... er ... dang, i don't have a swear word big enough for that.

question about the shot-loaded ones -- i'm asking out of ignorance, but something that pops into mind is the shifting of the shot inside an un-full bell. i've never done kb lifts before (just ordered RKC dvd an hour ago), so i don't know if this even matters.

[blooming lotus]

recently found a new old school resistence tool..have no link..but looks alot like a stone lollipop....think I found it in Blitz mag....paapently dudes 've been using them for 100's of yrs?? If I came across one, I wouln't not use it;) :p

[mickey]

Thank you for the catch guys,

I meant atomic athletic. What a difference a day makes.

mickey

[norther practitioner]

bl..

rock pole?

[Ford Prefect]

Rub,

I think that'd be a concern as well. I wouldn't be suprised if you have to use some sort of light weight filler in order to have a useable kb.

BL,

That's basically a indian club, clubbell, leverage bar, thor's hammer, etc. You can find them at:

www.clubbell.tv
www.ironmind.com
www.detroitbarbell.com
www.atomicathletic.com

They look different, but they basically do the same thing.

[Shaolinlueb]

i have a kettlebell but i havent used it much i used it ocne and i was like woah.

[blooming lotus]

Originally posted by Ford Prefect
Rub,

I think that'd be a concern as well. I wouldn't be suprised if you have to use some sort of light weight filler in order to have a useable kb.

BL,

That's basically a indian club, clubbell, leverage bar, thor's hammer, etc. You can find them at:

www.clubbell.tv
www.ironmind.com
www.detroitbarbell.com
www.atomicathletic.com

They look different, but they basically do the same thing.

that's the one :D

[blooming lotus]

not to start a testosterone battle..but how much is everyone here lifting?like..proportionately to body weight? Last night I got someone quite a bit heavier to sit on me while I did some pushups and it blew me away...it was pretty easy, but I stopped because I don't wanna gain too much through my chest and arms...I figured the way he was sitting made it kinda like benching...I know I could more and that +60% is pretty av..but what's everyone doing?

[Toby]

Not enough :p. Today was the end of a PTP cycle for me and I benched 3x115kg, squatted 5x152.5kg and deadlifted 5x152.5kg for my max effort sets. Max singles? Bench I've done 125kg before, but never tried singles at squat and DL. Current bodyweight 90ish kg. I've always sucked at power to weight ratio. E.g. I also did 5xpullups with a 10kg weight today. 10kg is close to my max with pullups, but recently someone (Iron?) posted that they can do pullups with 50lb.

[IronFist]

but I stopped because I don't wanna gain too much through my chest and arms...I

You know you're not gonna get huge from one set, right? ;)


..but how much is everyone here lifting?like..proportionately to body weight?

Not very much. I'm pretty weak. Here's my maxes (not all at the same time, but the most I've ever done at any given time):

Squat - 1.666 x bw
DL - 1.9 x bw
Bench - 1.48 x bw
Standing overhead barbell press bw x .81 for 2 reps (but I just did this on a whim one day... I never train for it)

That's pretty weak. I'd prefer it if was 2 x bw for bench, 2.5x bw for squat, and 3x bw for dl.

Except for pullups, where I'm not bad. Here's my maxes:

Close grip pullups - bw + 105lbs (that's 3 35lb plates on a belt) - 2 or 3 reps (I can't remember which, but I have it written down somewhere)
1 arm pullup with each arm
Wide grip pullups - I think I've done 5 reps with 65lbs on a belt
And my max pullups done in one set (full ROM, thank you very much) is either 14 or 17, but that was in the middle of PTP training so I wasn't really going for high rep ability.

---Please note: all the above lifts were done using FULL RANGE OF MOTION for every lift. I may be weak, but at least I don't half-ass my form---

So, yeah, except for pullups, I'm pretty weak.


Today was the end of a PTP cycle for me and I benched 3x115kg,

Kg? Kilograms? Only hippies use "kilograms." :p

j/k :D

[Toby]

Originally posted by IronFist
---Please note: all the above lifts were done using FULL RANGE OF MOTION for every lift. I may be weak, but at least I don't half-ass my form---
Yeah, yeah, we know :rolleyes:.


Originally posted by IronFist
Kg? Kilograms? Only hippies use "kilograms." :p
Well, I usually convert to lb for you Americans because I know you can't do the math in your head :p. But I was replying to BL and I know she's (sort of) an Aussie and I couldn't be bothered doing the lb thing this time. All my weights are in kg, though, so that's what I relate to. Also makes me tougher, because instead of going up by 5lb in my PTP, I go up by 2.5 kg :D. Just that little bit more ...

BTW, I remember now that it was 100ish lb that you pulluped (pullupped, pulled-up?). I guess the whole kg/lb thing confused me. 50kg, not lb ;).

[Ford Prefect]

Bench = 1.8xBW
Squat = 2.29xBW
DL = 2.66xBW

Power Clean and Jerk = 1.29xBW

Military Press = 1xBW

Power Snatch = 0.8xBW

Pull-ups (hands away/shoulder-width) x55lbs for reps and 135x1.

[FatherDog]

Deadlift - 1.66 x bw
Bench - 1.05 x bw
Wide grip pullups - bw, 5 reps.

The deadlifts and benches are 1 rep maxes, and they're what I was doing a couple months ago - I lost a fair bit of strength when I cut from 208 to 182 for last NAGA. I'm working my way back up; last week I pulled 1.5 x bw on deadlift for three sets of 5. I'm doing Arnold Presses and weighted dips instead of bench, though, so I don't know what my bench would be about now.

I'm trying to balance weightlifting with the fact that I'm doing Muay Thai and boxing and grappling 4-5 nights a week. Most of the time it's the weightlifting that suffers. :D

[fa_jing]

Dayam Ford! You are way stronger than me. I figured out your weight and totals, too. At least I have you in one area:

Every other day, I perform 25 jerks with 2 x 24kg - no belt. I then rest 10 minutes, and do a set of snatches up to 25 reps l/r, switching if necessary ( remember my weak grip). Then I do 100 jumping jacks.

My best Long Cycle C & J with 2 x 32kg was 8 -no belt, not a max effort. I think I can do at least 12 with a belt (resting elbows on belt)

Can full squat ass to heals OH 2 x 32kg. Can side press 40 kg bell. Can do two pistols l/r with 32kg.

Bench only about 1.37 times BW, right now. Of course, I don't bench and hardly train my chest at all.

400 hindu squats and 250 jumping jacks were my best respective totals.

Once ran 10 miles in under 77:30 = 7 mins 45 sec / mile

Can hold L-sit on the floor for 20 seconds

Can do 12 unweighted pistols each leg

[IronFist]

Originally posted by fa_jing
Can hold L-sit on the floor for 20 seconds


:eek: !! You've tested that before? Are you talking about where you lift yourself up with your fists and have your legs out in front of you?

[fa_jing]

Yes, except I use my palms, not my fists.

[Ford Prefect]

Hey FD, keep pluggin away brother. If I was still seriously training, I'd certainly be lifting a lot less too.

Fa-Jing, It's all 1RM's so I'm sure I'd have a tough time putting up 2x32kg for 8 reps. I sure can't press the 24 kg's 28 times like you did. That's pretty nasty dude. After my 1RM, the weight drops off dramatically when I start going for reps. Do you use paralettes in your L-sit? It's the weirdest thing. If I use paralettes I can hold an L-sit for a decent time and even transfer from an L-sit directly into a handstand. Without them, I can barely L-sit. I think it has something to do with irradiation and if I grip the paralettes, it allows me to contract my arms and shoulders harder. Dunno.

Hey Iron,

What type of workout you doing now? Power lift, bodybuild, your own variation?

[fa_jing]

palms on the floor. IMO the parallettes probably let you keep your hands closer to your hips, rather than ****her forward.


No seriously, my horizontal pushing and pulling strength isn't all that right now. I can't focus on everything at once, and dedicated work in these areas would increase the recovery time in my upper back.

I've got the bug to hit 40 jerks x 48kg, and I love what it does for me.

[FatherDog]

Originally posted by Ford Prefect
Hey FD, keep pluggin away brother. If I was still seriously training, I'd certainly be lifting a lot less too.

Yeah, I'm still working on that whole "know your own limits" thing. I was hitting the gym for training six nights a week, lifting twice and doing cardio three times for a while, until my joints decided to let me know that that was a bad idea.

Right now, I'm training Mondays, Tuesdays, Thursdays, and Fridays, and lifting on my lunch hour Tuesdays and Fridays. Gonna see if that's a little better as far as overtaxing myself goes.

[IronFist]

Originally posted by Ford Prefect
Hey Iron,

What type of workout you doing now? Power lift, bodybuild, your own variation?

Kind of my own variation. When I have time I'll make a new thread about it. It's been working pretty well (knock on wood). Box squats rule.

[blooming lotus]

Originally posted by fa_jing
Can hold L-sit on the floor for 20 seconds




and what exactly is an "L hold"???..are we talking on bars or something???


I'm probably not pressing/lifting whatevere as much weight as some of you guys but proportantely, I think I do ok with most of what you've mentioned...does anyone else find it interesting that I don't lift any "actual" weight.....well I use local kids sometimes I guess, :P...but most of it's body weight training and light resistence, except the occassional reality check with something weighed


I used to use this 250kg friend of mine to sit on my total gym while I did flys and presses and jazz....considering I'm tiny...thats ok right :cool: :D

and taking THAT into account...how relevant do you think all that weight and muscular bulk is to ma?? I see alot of folks performing sets etc, and while I have a SERIOUSLY long way to go before I'll be satisfied with my performance/execution level, I really feel look much crisper than alot of long time players...(and not crisp as others:D )


go figure the physiology????

[fa_jing]

Muscular weight and bulk are extremely important in competitive (fight simulation) MA. That's why there are weight classes in EVERY MA sport. That said, everyone has an optimum weight class, although they may move up as they continue to train. However, muscular weight and bulk should never comprises one's ability to book it (run). I think a mid-size running back or alternatively an olympic sprinter's build would be ideal. No, how about a decathelete? Dan vs. Dan? There you go. You know they can twist and use spinal power because of the discus, javelin, and high jump.

Myself, after gaining 10 lbs. of muscle over the last year, I feel I filled in some holes, especially with regards to shoulder strength, that were limiting to me in the past in the MA. I also find leg and core strength incredibly useful when it comes to resisting being thrown. I'm a naturally slim guy, so bulking up won't be an issue unless I train specifically for bulk, which I don't. Flexibility, on the other hand, will always be an issue because I have average natural flexibility. The weight training I do tends to increase my flexibility. It may not be the quickest path to flexibility, but it does take be ****her down that path.

[fa_jing]

Oh, speaking of kettlebells :D Yesterday I worked out with a friend and did some new things - he gave me a spot and I did one windmill rep each side, palm to the floor with the 40 kg. It was very difficult. I did a few reps just fingers to the ground.
I did 2 reps each side pistol with the 32 kg, then I did my first ever sets of 4 and 5 double snatches with the 24's. My pulling power has improved recently, and I even overpulled the first rep. I also was not using a second dip as I had in the past. BTW I lower the bells to the shoulder between reps for the double snatch. Later, I did a few singles on each arm of dead snatch with the 32kg. That was also a new one for me. I'm feeling the snatch work in my abs today.

[fa_jing]

L-Sit like I do it is when you sit on the floor with your legs straight out, clench your body, place your hands at the outside of your mid-thigh a little closer to the knees than the hips - you have to find the balance point - and press your palms into the ground and extend your arms fully to lift your body a few inches off of the ground with the legs suspended out in front of you. Very simple exercise. I think Oso said his Karate school required you to be able to perform this hold for 1 minute as a black belt requirement. I think it is a reasonable goal for a martial arts student.

[blooming lotus]

Originally posted by fa_jing
Muscular weight and bulk are extremely important in competitive (fight simulation) MA. That's why there are weight classes in EVERY MA sport.
.


ok...but what about real life....you can't have a "situation" break out and go" dude..you're not in my weight division, so I don think I'm gon be able to fight you"...ya know..lets get a little real here...besides...chinese people , the folks who invented the art/s..are little in stature as a definitive physical trait...sure westerners adapted those arts to more suit their physique..which is obviously taller and bulkier...but it's contingency application of the original physical form it was designed for....and before some poor defensive dude starts jumping up and down, no..I am not saying a larger person has sh*t kungfu...they jus need to work harder to compensate for extra height and loss of rom

[blooming lotus]

PS. you're right an L-hold does sound simple....20 seconds to be competitive ha...very cool...I'll try it:D :p

[Ka]

Nope,To be competitive at the L sit do it for 1 min(point your toes, stretch out) to be good 3mins(develope a breathing format) on the Paralettes(better for your wrists).
Combine with controled movement up to V and back.There is a so much you can do on Paralettes.

BL
I think FJ is saying that Body Mass plays an important part.Where as I think you are saying "yeah but in execution I can do ........."
"Real Life" has a large amount of factors to take into account.BM will still be one of those factors.
In the end I think most on this particular forum are into functional ability, sport fighting is the best place to push these bounderies.IMHO such people have lost the insecurities associated with constantly discussing SF situations.

"how relevant do you think all that weight and muscular bulk is to ma??"

Those people with that bulk can make it relevant.

[IronFist]

omg I'm so dumb.

Dude I thought you said you could hold an L-sit for 20 MINUTES!!! That's why I was like "whoa, you've tested that before!"

I can't believe I read that like 3 times and read "Minutes" each time where it says "seconds."

Duh!

Now you know why I was so shocked.

[IronFist]

Mass plays a huge difference. If I ever have to fight someone on the street, I hope they're not bigger than me!

[fa_jing]

Basically, on the street you want to be even bigger than you would be as a competitor in the MA - because you wouldn't have to make a weight class. Here I would say, the most size possible, without compromising footspeed, flexibility, fluidity, handspeed, etc. Again, a decathelete comes to mind. Everyone needs to strike a balance.

[fa_jing]

BL - also - you may say that there is always someone bigger/stonger than you out there, so why train for strength? Well, there will also always be someone more talented and skilled than you out there - does this mean that you shouldn't train your skills?

[fa_jing]

http://forum.dragondoor.com/?smessage=263887&tpstate=training

I think that he's the top all around KB lifter in the US right now - Frank Shamrock has trained with him.

[blooming lotus]

I really don't have so much time to consider your posts at the moment, but Iguess a large part of why I am NOT intimidated by size on the street is Dimmak.....that and some good throws and takedowns....I have always been the "little chick" so I guess I have always trained for the bigger dude....I dunno....what ever lets you walk outta there;) :cool:

[fa_jing]

BL - Is your lack of intimidation by a person's size on the street due to a successful physical encounter(s) with such a person?

Superior muscular development surely has more uses than intimidation.

BTW, are you an advanced KF practicioner? You sound like you might be.

[IronFist]

When Mike Mahler says he pressed 2 70's, does he mean 2 in one hand, or one in each hand?

[Ford Prefect]

One in each hand. He snatched 2 88's though (1 in each hand) and that's pretty impressive. I'm barely hitting these 70's and that's with **** poor form.

[blooming lotus]

Originally posted by fa_jing
BL - Is your lack of intimidation by a person's size on the street due to a successful physical encounter(s) with such a person?

Superior muscular development surely has more uses than intimidation.

BTW, are you an advanced KF practicioner? You sound like you might be.

I don't know...how do you define that?...I have NO doubt ...NONE that I can protect myself if that's what you mean. I was discussing all the "situations" I've had with larger folks, and particulary Large Adult males with someone only last night. I guess the answer is YES! I am speaking from my own experience. I have faced guns, knives, broken bottles, long pointy type weapons, defended choke holds to the albiet-hopeful death, conservatively 450 lb men trained in boxing in a real situation, and so on and so forth....I'm still alive so I figure my skills are sufficient. Alot of people get intimidated by an opponents size...I'm just not one of them....and while we're there, superior muscle developemnt has NOTHING to do with how big it is!!

;) cheers

[Vash]

Originally posted by blooming lotus
superior muscle developemnt has NOTHING to do with how big it is!!

;) cheers

:eek: :cool:

[fa_jing]

Originally posted by blooming lotus


I don't know...how do you define that?...I have NO doubt ...NONE that I can protect myself if that's what you mean. I was discussing all the "situations" I've had with larger folks, and particulary Large Adult males with someone only last night. I guess the answer is YES! I am speaking from my own experience. I have faced guns, knives, broken bottles, long pointy type weapons, defended choke holds to the albiet-hopeful death, conservatively 450 lb men trained in boxing in a real situation, and so on and so forth....I'm still alive so I figure my skills are sufficient. Alot of people get intimidated by an opponents size...I'm just not one of them....and while we're there, superior muscle developemnt has NOTHING to do with how big it is!!

;) cheers

(a simple yes would have sufficed)

:D

Hey are you a female bouncer or something?

:p

[Pork Chop]

at first i thought she was like your typical "c0cky fighter chick"

then it was like "she's okay, tho we don't agree on workouts and she'd probly call me 'fatty' if we met"

last few days she's earned "cool chick" status

she keeps it up and she'll hit that "margie-" or "wushuchick-" (or when Sharky pretended to be a girl-) level of guys chasin after her, 15 replies to every post kinda forum rockstardom

[IronFist]

Originally posted by BMore Banga
she keeps it up and she'll hit that "margie-" or "wushuchick-" (or when Sharky pretended to be a girl-) level of guys chasin after her, 15 replies to every post kinda forum rockstardom

What, you mean like this (http://albinoblacksheep.com/flash/attention.php)?

:D :D :D

[Ka]

How about raging egotist!
or
Inability to except/consider other perceptions!

[Ford Prefect]

LMFAO! Iron, that was hillarious. I didn't want to be the one to say that.

[IronFist]

It's funny because it's true. On the forums that I belong to, it's mostly guys. Whenever a girl posts, it gets like 54807945987348980948709 replies in the first day. I'm like, what, do you think she's going to sleep with you because you replied to her post? I don't get it.

[blooming lotus]

no...you do!!!;) :p


NOW you're feelin me :eek: :p :cool:


as for reaching martial arts maggie status, or Wushu chick...dude...that's a big call don't you think:rolleyes:


why do so many threads I post on end up being all about me anyway??? for freaks sake...you think we can just talk shop??????


cheers;) :p :D