Lung Ying Book by Leo Chu and Francis Au

[Fu-Pow]

So I ended up buying the Lung Ying book just to see what the form looked like (My Sifu doesn't know this form, we have Tiger, Leopard and Crane forms.) Leo Chu looked pretty good playing the form. I'm guessing his CLF is Chan Family derived because it looked very loose and fluid. A lot of the componenets of CLF that I already know were there Chaap Chui, Chin Jih Chui, Gwa Chui, Double Butterfly palms, Paau Jeung, Fu Jaau, etc, etc.

There were a few moves I didn't recognize. Mainly moves that had two "dragon claws" facing each other. In the application these were shown as grappling moves mainly for the head. I wasn't overall too impressed with the applications. They didn't look very easy to apply and probably wouldn't work unless you had already messed up your opponent.

I also saw a move that I recognized from my Hung Gar days. It's a move where you set up with a Double Butterfly Palm and then shoot your hands straight out. Its a double palm strike to the torso. I didn't know CLF had this but it definitely points to the Hung Gar and CLF's common origins.

Has anyone that knows the CLF Dragon form taken a look at this book? How does it stack up compared to the form that you know?
Does anyone know who Leo Chu's Sifu is?
Also, if you have the book, there is a bunch of stuff written in Chinese on the back of the book which is beyond reading ability. It looks like a list of forms though. I'm wondering if these other books are available?

[CLFNole]

I think he also has a Seh Ying Kuen and Fu Ying Kuen book as well.

Peace.

[Fu-Pow]

I'll see if I can find those on line. It's very interesting. I know the Chan Family Fu Ying Kyun looks different than ours CLFNole.

[extrajoseph]

"Does anyone know who Leo Chu's Sifu is?"

Leo Chu's Sifu is Dou Hong-Cheung.

[CLFNole]

Fu-Pow:

Where have you seen their Fu Ying Kuen?

Peace.

[Fu-Pow]

If you go to John Wai's site one of his students on there performs a Fu Ying Kuen that is quite a bit different than the one that I know. I also have a tape of a sifu from spain who does a similar looking form. It has a more Hung Gar flavor and is less acrobatic than the one that we know. I think that the Fu Ying we know is something that LKH came up with because he might have not liked the standard Fu Ying form? Check it out and see what you think.

[CLFNole]

Actually I have another theory but I need to do some research first. I'll let you know what I come up with.

Peace.

[DRAGON32]

Hello

First to request excuse by my ingles, I am using of the translator of the Google.

Fu-Pow:

"If you go to John Wai's site one of his students on there performs a Fu Ying Kuen that is quite a bit different than the one that I know."

Yes, this set is "Fu Ying Kuen", from Kong Chow (Chan Heung - Chan On Pak - Chan Yen - Wong Gong), but made with the flavor of Hung Sing of Hong Kong.(Master Lee Koon Hung)

"I also have a tape of a sifu from spain who does a similar looking form. It has a more Hung Gar flavor and is less acrobatic than the one that we know."

I think to know to that video you talk about, (Sifu Pedro Rico, a great in USA competitioner during 80´s). In this video does not teach the "Fu Ying Kuen" nor the "Lung Ying Kuen".

The publisher of the video, by marketing questions, put the name to them of Ang Lee´s film to the video.

The kuens at issue are:
Lung Kuen (video): Lung Ying versus Fu Ying (Lung side) (Kong Chow Branch)
Fu Kuen (video): Sup Ji Jit Fu (King Mui Branch) (Chan Heung - Chan Koon Pak - Chan Yiu Chi - Hu Yuen Chou - Doc Fai Wong - Pedro Rico)

Un saludo.

[Troy Dunwood]

To add a bit to that, Leo Chu(Chu SIl Kay) when not in Hong Kong resides here in the northern california bay area the city of oakland, on several occasions I have had the opportunity to talk with him about choy lee fut, he belongs to both Chan and Jeong Yim lines, and to see his primary sifu was the late great Grandmaster Tu Han Chang. Also let it be known sifu Chu is also a student of the late Great maaster Ho Ngau as well, he truly has alot of choy lee fut knowledge how ever nowadays he's really into chi gong and Feng Shui, if given the opportunity to meet him my advise is to do so, he came up around alot of the old school choy lee fut teachers and is a primary source for the 70's choy lee fut book series.

[Troy Dunwood]

May I also add, if you ever meet him you will never hear him talk about belonging to any distinctive branch of choy lee fut, his conversation is to glorify choy lee fut regardless to what branch you belong to, he's all for promoting CHOY LEE FUT KUNG FU.

[Fu-Pow]

Troy-

My Sifu was also very positive about Leo Chu. He showed me a recent picture of them together when I showed him the Lung Ying book. He also said that he doesn't think that Leo Chu practices his kung fu too much anymore and that he is mainly a reporter now or something like that.

Anyways, in regards to your comment about Leo Chu not choosing "sides." I think that ultimately this is the best route to take. CLF is such a vast system and there is so much to learn. Why limit yourself to one teacher or one branch? There is much to be said for commiting to train with one teacher and one style for a long time. Such is the nature of learning kung fu. Sifu Mak will always be "my Sifu." But learning new perspectives from other teachers makes you question what you have learned and potentially see things in a new perspective. Sometimes you see things that were there all along but never delineated by your main teacher.

It seems that the best practitioners of our style have always kept an open mind and taken the best of the best into their own personal style. This goes back to the origin of CLF with Chan Heung (or Jeong Yim depending on what you believe) incorporating 2-3 different styles into one comprehensive style.

[Troy Dunwood]

I, believe kung fu is a never ending story, if one style or school had all the answers there would be no need for others, besides there are more important things in life. My Sifu Lau Yee Chan used to say and I quote " stay away from mindless chatter and let the kung fu speak for itself" thats how I am these days.

Troy

[extrajoseph]

Hi Troy,

Reading your interview:

http://www.joybotsin.com/interview.htm

and thinking about your old classmate Frank's attack on Wong Doc Fai, you have also jumped ship and definitely not a Hung Sing Man using his standard, what do you say?

Did Frank and you learned from the same teacher? Or did Dino taught you and him in a different way? You two sounded like you are from two different planets when it comes to loyalty to your style.

No offence is intended with these questions, just curious.

JX

[Troy Dunwood]

Yes, we are from the same school, same sifu, although when I first started with Sifu Dino I was lucky because it was just me and him at the time I used to come, also I was privy to tips by some of his classmates as well. This is in no way shape, form or fashion to say i'm not strongly connected with my Sifu because I know beyond a shadow of a doubt he knows we're still a family. But Joseph quite honestly i'd like to classify myself as a Kung Fu man in general, even though i'm Sifu Lau Yee Chan only U.S. disciple, which he has granted me all the writings of his family and the likes, I don't consider myself a Eight Immortals man, no more than a choy lee fut, wing chun, tung gar etc, I love chinese martial arts period and I do believe everyone has something to offer. As far as Frank is concerned he has his own convictions and he is his own man, I know my Sifu is friends with other choy lee fut people outside his hung sing family. You know my first teacher Yuan Chan encouraged us to learn all that we could from different teachers, styles, not only in kung fu technique but mannerism, conversation etc., this I have tried to do since I started my training back in 1969, now I believe I have a broader scope of things to pass on to my students that I did not or would not have from one teacher but collectively the puzzle is put together.

[Troy Dunwood]

I also like to make this little statement since i've been around the block a couple of times, during the revolution in china I doubt very seriously if they had small chatter about style or teacher only in the fact that one could contribute for the sake of china "all men band together for the cause, I don't think it mattered what style you were if fighting against foreign oppression and you see your chinese mothers and sisters getting raped and fathers and brothers getting killed, if you had fighting skills it was all about survival of a people and a nation. Man is always more important than the stye I think Bruce Lee hit the nail on the head when he made that statement.

troy

[extrajoseph]

Originally posted by Troy Dunwood
As far as Frank is concerned he has his own convictions and he is his own man, I know my Sifu is friends with other choy lee fut people outside his hung sing family.

Troy,

Thank you for clarify the situation regarding your sifu, from the way Frank talks, I thought his sifu and his Hung Sing sihingdi all hated the Chan family and anyone who don't stay for life is not a true Hung Sing man. Now we know better, he is just a one man band on his crazy crusade against Chan Heung and his family. He does not speak for Futsan Hung Sing nor his sifu and they don't think the way he does.

Thank Heavens.

JX

[SifuX-HSK]

let me tell you the truth joseph.

you don't know me. you don't know my sifu so please do not refer to him by first name.

sifu troy did not tell you if my sifu believes what i believe or not. if you read my sifu's webite, he has stated he trained me in the culture and i am capable of dealing with the chinese community. therefore, i will admit, i DO NOT speak for my sifu in any way shape or form. i know better than that.

but my sifu does know about what i do on this forum. who do you think i run all my mess by first? yes i am a die hard hung sing man, not afraid to admit i love this branch. do i believe what i spout out, yes!!!!! is there anything the chan family can show me to prove me wrong, no!

will we ever truly know the truth of the past, no! but i will keep searching.

joseph, i will let you in on a little secret. we used to have chan heungs photo on our walls because no one asked the right questions. we used to believe chan as the founder until we started digging for our own history. thats when things changed.

i will tell you, you have no idea how my sifu feels, thinks, or acts. he is well aware of what i am doing to promote this system and our lineage. and i am still one of his senior students.

frank

[Fu-Pow]

Lineage doesn't mean jack if you don't have the ability to back it up!!!

[Jamesbond_007]

we used to have chan heungs photo on our walls because no one asked the right questions. we used to believe chan as the founder until we started digging for our own history. thats when things changed.

I used the same logic the other day. I had a picture of my parents on my wall. This was to honor where I came from.
I then became religous and replaced the picture with Adam and Eve.
Then I went to college, got my degree, "learned my ture history" and replaced the picture on my wall with a monkey. Soon after that I replaced the picture with a dinosour.
Now the final picture on my wall is a picture of a cell of bacteria.
Why? Because I started to ask questions and didgging into history and found out that scientist say all life came from bateria. :D

[extrajoseph]

Originally posted by SifuX-HSK
let me tell you the truth joseph.

but my sifu does know about what i do on this forum. who do you think i run all my mess by first? yes i am a die hard hung sing man, not afraid to admit i love this branch. do i believe what i spout out, yes!!!!! is there anything the chan family can show me to prove me wrong, no!

frank

Dear Frank,

If your teacher condones what you are saying here, then please ask him to post a few words of support. I very much doubted that he will for he has taken pictures proudly standing next to Chan Kit-Fong and Ng Fu-Heng, who are Chan Heung's descendants.

We have gone through many times before about who founded CLF, you have your own point of view and I have mine, there is no need to lump your teacher and others into your camp without their consent to support your weak case nor trying to attack the Chan Family for no good reasons at all.

For five generations the descendants of Chan Heung have carried on their family tradition, they don't have to prove anything to you or to anybody, so lay off and take it easy my friend, there is nothing to gain by carrying on the way you do.

JX