Appropriate?

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings.. (also posted in Northern Praying Mantis Forum)

Suppose (hypothetically, sort of) that a change in leadership, a difference of opinion and a possible misunderstanding led to the dismissal of a senior student/instructor.. suppose that the new leadership at the former student/instructor's school interferes in the affairs of another school.. the interference takes shape in the form of coercing the leadership of another school to exclude the former student/instructor from participating in an official capacity at an upcoming tournament sponsored by the other school.. the former student/instructor has officiated at tournaments for his former school, for the other school and other tournaments (qualification is not the issue).

The question is this, is it appropriate for the leader of a respected system (note: a system may respected regardless of the current leadership) to bring personal issues public in the manner described above.. this action could harm the reputation of the former student/instructor.. this action puts the leadership of the other school in a situation of compromising integrity (note: the former student/instructor has communicated with the other school's leadership and assured them that all is well and they should use their best judgement in the success of their tournament)..

My interest in this issue is one of integrity.. where the original issues (re: dismissal of former student/instructor) were largely personal and, from anyone's perspective, not based on fact or verifiable conditions.. Is it appropriate to use the respect "earned" by the former leadership and potential business contribution of a school into a personal disagreement.. particularly where it involves coercion of an uninvolved party and the "earned" reputation of a former student/instructor..

Is this sort of political manipulation acceptable in a cultural perspective, is it acceptable in a general spirit of common courtesy.. I do have a personal interest in this issue but am willing to accept other opinions.. it has been my intention to let the past stay in the past, but this new situation concerns me.. i have to wonder at what lengths will someone go to exact revenge or to sooth a wounded ego.. if it is deemed appropriate in the context of the culture, i have no quarrel.. it is simply what it is.. if not, i must consider communicating with the current leadership of the former school in an attempt to neutralize such behavior..

Advice and commentary are welcome.. some of you may even be aware of the particulars in this issue.. please do not use names, it is not my intent to make matters worse.. i simply need to know if it is common or acceptable for a leader of a respected school to "blacklist" former student/instructor over personal issues..

Be well...


__________________

[scotty1]

Doesn't sound acceptable to me at all. Simply from a personal / common coutesy viewpoint.

Its also asking a third party to take sides in a dispute they'd probably rather stay out of.

It just sounds petty really.

Surely the tournament would be a good place to sort the differences out?:D

[count]

*cough*chicken*****cough*

Anyway, leadership according to who's standards?

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings Count..

Leadership or coup, it doesn't matter.. it is the force/personality that must be reckoned with.. although i may have revealed too much info, the real question is should i accept this as normal behavior from a cultural perspective? if it is common to persecute former students for "perceived" misdeeds, then i will put this behind me.. if not, i would like to resolve it in a mutually favorable manner..

Aside from that, your humor is appreciated.. and your observations duly noted.. (thanks)..

Be well..

[Ray Pina]

The whole thing's a little confusing to an outsider.

A teacher/long time student falling out is always a shame and I never understand how these things happen. But if that is the case then each of their skills and telents will speak for themselves.

The student is free now, left home. If he was a stranger, are his talents good enough to judge or ref.? Is he good enough to teach? That's it.

If he sucked, and is going around making rediculous claims simply call him on it. I would think a tournament would be an ideal place to do that.

People generally shine or place their own foot in their mouth if left alone. Which are you hoping to happen?

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

The Former student was relied upon to lead advanced classes, to judge in tournaments promoted by the Master, and to judge in other tournaments (chief ring judge).. the student contributed costly professional services to the benefit of the Master and the school.. The master is approaching retirement and the new power structure has changed policies and philosophies, those unwilling to switch allegiance (the former student remained faithfull to the Master) have been pushed aside (disposed of)..

The issue is whether the internal politics of a school should be interjected into the interactive Kung Fu community.. these issues are not tournament "challenge" issues, they are issues of spirit and intentions.. the former student makes no claims, he has opened his own school and seeks nothing but peaceful co-existence.. he misses the friendship and wisdom of the Master, but knows the new power structure will not permit any level of contact.. the former student would like to be able to continue contributing to the interactive Kung Fu community but the power and influence of his former school is interfering.. this interference could negatively impact the students well-intended school and his reputation..

The student could just let it pass and hope it goes away, although evidence suggests that it wont.. the student could try to communicate with the new power structure, but previous attempts have unsuccessful.. or, and the student does not favor this course of action, the student could retaliate.. At what point does a former student discard respect for the former school, and enforce his own self-respect..

Anyway, i hope this whole thing goes away.. honor and respect should be the guiding principles.. Be well...

[Walter Joyce]

Bob, the former school no longer exists. It became a different school when the mantle was passed

The former student strikes me as a respectful and sincere person. As such, like any person, he is entitled to protect and pursue his own interests, especially when doing so will benefit not only himself, but his students and the kung fu community as a whole.

Petty political power moves are just that, in any culture. This blatant attempt to consolidate power in the new school that was created when the mantle passed should be seen for what it is and treated accordingly.

Dark energy has many faces, most of them pleasant to look at. That doesn't change the need to turn away from the dark and to move towards the light.

Intentionally holding back your own light for the sake of others only serves to make the world a darker place.

[Ray Pina]

I'm still a little confused.

There's the master. Then there is the master's student who is good enough to teach his advanced classes. The master is retiring and the student is remaining loyal.

That all sounds great!

I get confused with: if not the student qualified to teach the top class, who has been placed as the school's active head?

I'm guessing it wasn't him. Now comes the tough question: if he's "loyal" does he go along with the new apointment, or is it such an outrage that he has to break off and do his own thing?

What does the master have to say about all of this?

I hate to hear this type of thing, because it's all so petty, like family infighting. Sometimes the big brother gets over-looked ala Godfather's Fredo. The old man usually has his reasons.

If it can't be resolved, each to their own I guess. If his students in the advanced class were satisfied he should at least have a base, core of students. As far as tournaments and judging, who needs them? There's plenty of opportunity out there to test and play with others.

I'm also guessing this somehow invloves you or your school so I wish you the best with it. Don't let it harden your heart or lose meaningful relations over it. It's martial arts, and though I consider it one of the most valuable things in my life, don't let it hurt you.

[TaiChiBob]

Greetings..

EvolutionFist: The student is very loyal to his former Master.. the Master relinquished power to a close family member(s) who have their own agenda(s) (agendas inconsistent with the Master's).. his reply to the student's plea for assistance was "i not boss anymore" (a sad ending to a great and illustrious career).. the student can reconcile the Master's situation due to personal knowledge of the situation.. but, remains confused as to why the persecution by the new power structure.. the student is willing to let the past rest, but the new regime seems intent on causing problems.. the student wishes to remain honorable in this matter, but feels unjustly persecuted.. just looking for advice from others that may have a fresh perspective..

Walter Joyce: I tend to agree, but.. out of respect for the master the student wishes no conflict in his life.. yet, as you say, the darkness will spread if unchecked.. or, as the evidence suggests, there could be an exodus of the faithful as the agendas become more apparent.. in any case, i am only looking to draw on the wisdom of the community to help formulate an honorable response to the situation..

Thanks to all and.. Be well..

[Ray Pina]

I would talk to the master presonally, one on one. This is his master, they must have a close relationship.

From what I hear I would think the master is simply passing his art onto a family member that perhaps he trained more closely and now does not want to get involved due to hurting feelings.

If the student wants to teach he should just start fresh. He is a traing Jaiji player. Now is the time for him to go out and make a life for himself, seperate from his old school.

Sorry to hear about this though. School drama is always the worst. Good luck.

[brassmonkey]

Very unfortunate situation. If I were you I'd be pretty ****ed off. Sounds like your being discrespected by the new head of the org. you were with. Does the school have a pea**** feathers opened up indicating they accecpt all challenges? muahahaha I say f them, go test your skill againt theyre most senior male if your confident in your skills. Bring a camcorder so you avoid he said/she said but don't use it unless an untrue version of the challenge comes out. People will hear about it and if you don't gain theyre respect you may gain others who are influential in tournaments.

[Ray Pina]

Is that what those feather's mean? My Hun Gar sifu's sifu had those in his window and I always wondered what they were .... learn something new every day.

On the other hand, I just assume if you open up a school you're ready to accept all challenges anyway. The shame is that is rarely the case ... preach, but never practice.