Why do they care?...(Trolls)

[old jong]

Sometimes,I wonder about this. Why Wing Chun is so often the prime target of trolls?...These trolls,mostly from a MMA's standpoint are never contempt of just doing what they like among themselves. They must also attack us.
I can understand that many are of an insecure nature and can't be happy or feel safe without putting themselves to the test and always worry about knowing everything that works against everything,just in case!...They will not understand or simply respect the fact that many people absolutely don't care about training in fear of being beat by some vale tudo maniac some day in some ufc or whatever.Wing Chun attracts many kinds of people but most of these people are looking for a practical self-defense art as well as a beneficial intelectual and physical activity for life.Not something that will last only for some "prime" and fade away as age kicks in.
We simply practice what is taught to us and don't worry about being "invincible" because we know it is impossible an futile to have that goal.To be clear,most train in Wing Chun for personnal reasons that are not based on insecurity or ego
So,what are we doing wrong so that the mma's trolls are on our back?...Are we a menace to them in some obscure way?...Come on!...
I suspect some kind of infantile urge more. Or some difuse male castration complex,the need to feel bigger than the other,you know?...(And the need for an audience?)
Grow up will you?...

BTW, There are also the other subjects of "intra-Wing Chun" trolls who bash other Wing Chun families and the Wing Chun guys who kiss the MMA's troll's behind to get their approval!...(Now this is bad!) :rolleyes: ...next times!...

[PaulH]

You really need some helps, Old Jong. I suspects some trolls are under your skin. There is always a troll hiding under the WC bridge. Best to humor them so that they go away! Ha! Ha!

Regards,
PH

[KingMonkey]

Don't worry,you are not the first or the last who can't understand Wing Chun and think it is not working.There are simpler things to learn for your kind.You could as an example beat your face with a stick to make it tougher.
Recognize the quote Old Jong? I hope so it's yours. ;)
Hmm now how could something like this encourage bad feeling from someone doubting WC effectiveness.

Maybe they troll here because people are so happy to feed them.

[old jong]

Originally posted by PaulH
You really need some helps, Old Jong. I suspects some trolls are under your skin. There is always a troll hiding under the WC bridge. Best to humor them so that they go away! Ha! Ha!

Regards,
PH
I like humor too!...Help for what?...

[old jong]

Originally posted by KingMonkey

Recognize the quote Old Jong? I hope so it's yours. ;)
Hmm now how could something like this encourage bad feeling from someone doubting WC effectiveness.

Maybe they troll here because people are so happy to feed them.

Just responding with the same kind of language.Is there a problem?...

[PaulH]

Help to get rid of those pernicious trolls under your skin. =)

[old jong]

Looks like this post will get a lot of attention from people who recongnise themselves in my last paragraph!...Let's see.

[PaulH]

On a more serious note, I beleive the sign of trolls is often indicative that WC is doing well and gaining some attention. I would be more worry if no one bothers to talk about us. Beside no troll is useless, he can serve always as a bad WC example! =)

[kungfu cowboy]

See? They are doubting their groundfighting!

[yuanfen]

Trolling? reasons?
Differring reasons possibly

1. Some just engaging in anonymous juvenile play- some in KFO- more in the VTTA/JKD dump.

2. Some may have insufficient or bad exposure to good wingchun-
but still have a hunch that there is something to wc they are missing. If they thought that they were on the right track generally thy wouldn't bother to slam wing chun. There are some major exceptions though of people trying to see what wc is about by comparing with what they know. Some do it with grace- others come off differntly.

3. Some may have a vendetta against someone and react whenever they see that person's name or post- a fixation of sorts. The explanation can be in psychology rather than in wc or ma.

4. Certainly permissive anonymity encourages trolling- best to ignore rather than feed the trolls.

5. Sometimes it is a genuine attempt at a critique but they dont know how to write in non flaming language. The true critique can be helpful.

[Ultimatewingchun]

Old Jong:

I believe that most trolling as regards Wing Chun (whether it be intra WC or from MMA's people, or whoever) - is due to the BI-POLAR face that Wing Chun as a whole shows to the world. This
saying attributed to WSL that "Wing Chun is a great horse, but few can ride it"....goes right to the heart of the issue.

There seems to be two very different "camps" within the Wing Chun world - regardless of lineage. On one side is this enormous reputation due to Bruce Lee, Yip Man, William Cheung, Wong Shun Leung, AND OTHERS...that Wing Chun is an incredible fighting art - WHICH IS HIGHLY COMPLICATED AND UNUSUAL...

in the way it goes about striking SO FAST AND FEROCIOUSLY - while possibly even unbalancing and trapping the hands of the opponent - and to an outsider good Wing Chun looks AMAZING.

BUT THE PROBLEM IS....few people really understand it and can make it work against GOOD, EXPERIENCED, SOLID fighters from other systems.

Those who can make it work...often leave their adversaries and on-lookers in awe...as they've never seen anything like this and they don't really understand how it's being done to them...

So some from the outside troll out of jealousy...

WHICH IS MADE EASY BY THE FACT THAT THEY ARE ABLE TO POINT OUT THAT SO MANY OTHER WING CHUN PEOPLE DON'T HAVE A CLUE ABOUT HOW TO BE ANYTHING OTHER THAN SUPER CHI SAO GUY AT BEST...

or totally imcompetent fighters at worst - and sometimes both.

There is very little middle ground in Wing Chun, IMO, and this is the problem.

It's not a gentle art - so either people really try to stay away from the serious fighting aspect of it (ie. - by doing endless hours of chi sao, forms, wooden dummy, etc.)...OR... they make it their business to condition themselves hard, spar/fight hard - and even mix it with other arts such as grappling in order to "get the fighting thing down" even more than what Wing Chun alone can offer.

Now some folks are actually caught in the middle in no-man's land, if you will, and that is unfortunate. Because it is so intricate and at times complicated, Wing Chun can really be alot of fun and intellectually stimulating (as well as providing a nice workout that will keep you reasonably in shape)...so many people don't really do it in order to become exceptional fighters. They do it for the fun of it.

So I believe that Wing Chun is a victim of it's own greatness - because so much is expected of you if you try to ride this horse; which, as Wong Shun Leung said - few can ride......WELL.

[old jong]

Originally posted by Ultimatewingchun
Because it is so intricate and at times complicated, Wing Chun can really be alot of fun and intellectually stimulating (as well as providing a nice workout that will keep you reasonably in shape)...so many people don't really do it in order to become exceptional fighters. They do it for the fun of it.


This is perfectly right and it concerns the vast majority of Wing Chun practitioners. Now why should we cause this anger or whatever to some?...We are not taking anything from them.We are just enjoying the art we practice. (witch does not take away it's realistic self-defense value)

(This is no paranoia Paul H! This is just a question about a legitimate subject!) ;)

[PaulH]

Ha! Ha! that was a wicked left!

Regards,
PH

[old jong]

Originally posted by PaulH
Ha! Ha! that was a wicked left!

Regards,
PH

A friendly Wing Chun hook or Ngoi Doi Gok Kuen!...;)

[old jong]

Originally posted by PaulH
On a more serious note, I beleive the sign of trolls is often indicative that WC is doing well and gaining some attention. I would be more worry if no one bothers to talk about us. Beside no troll is useless, he can serve always as a bad WC example! =)

Wing Chun always done well even during the everlasting UFC/MMA's cagemania!...Wing Chun attract mostly people who show no interest in NHB competitions. Could this hurt some very big egos who would like to be more adulated for all their suffering?...(O.K. I'm a little sarcastic here!) ;)

[old jong]

Originally posted by kungfu cowboy
See? They are doubting their groundfighting!

Ha! Ha!...I doubt it but,this brings an other question. We all know they feel very superior to us,in Wing Chun. Normally,you should not bother about what you consider inferior!...Why the hell do they care so much about us,peacefully doing our forms and chi-sau?...Why are we getting so much under their skin?...(;) PaulH)

[old jong]

Originally posted by yuanfen


2. Some may have insufficient or bad exposure to good wingchun-


The " I can't make it work/It does not work" syndrome!...;) Some never learn,even with years of practice. Sifu's fault?...Natural talent more geared for other art?...Thick head?...;) Too much internet ?...:p

[PaulH]

You know how the French feel about the Americans in general! Use your imagination, Old Jong! Ha! Ha!

[old jong]

I'm not french,I'm french canadian. My culture is probably 80% american want it or not!...You will never see me walking around with a bread "baguette" under my armpit!...:D

BtW, this thread is about "What the hell do they want from us.. and why?" and is not intended as a try to find a solution to their game or get rid of them.

[Ernie]

jong

it's simple people will predicate there skill against that which they most fear / respect / or can't figure out

i predicate myself off of boxers , there conditioned ,can hit hard with either hand , there lines of attack are more realistic then any striaght punch in repect to what you might find in the street .

this is a more common street energy

so if i can pull my stuff of on a boxer well then a guy in the street in theory will be much less skilled

do i think boxing is the end all [ no ] but i have a healthy respect and in some cases fear of really talented boxers yep

wrestlers would be next on my list ground and pound guys

people with sport backgrounds , football types and so on i would have a healty respect for as well


these are more common energies i might face in my social enviroment

so if so many are placing there sites on wing chun well there you have it

[Knifefighter]

While I'll agree to the troll label to a small extent (at least in my choice of titles), I consider myself more of a poster who just doesn't keep his opinions to himself and states them in an outspoken manner. However, since I'm probably considered the resident troll around here these days, I'll answer.

I don’t just make up a post to cause people grief, but, rather, to address an issue or statement that someone else has made that I consider to be completely without merit.

I would never come on here out of the blue making bold assertions about the superiority of BJJ or Muay Thai (or just pop in occasionally to take a cheap shot at the odd poster or two- eh, Old Jong?). Those are what i consider to be trolls. However, if someone makes what I consider to be unrealistic claims about WC, I am going to make some noise about it. Whether it is UWC making claims about WC/catch superiority, or Alan selling his NHB dvd’s before he or his guys have used them in public NHB matches, I’m going to call them on it.

[Edmund]

They are *always* BJJ internet evangelists.
They're so up themselves that they can't let others have a forum to themselves. In their eyes, it wouldn't be right if they didn't express their views everywhere possible. That's what a free country is all about.

No doubt Aikido, Karate, TKD forums have exactly the same BJJ trolls posting all the time telling them they suck.


Originally posted by old jong
Sometimes,I wonder about this. Why Wing Chun is so often the prime target of trolls?...These trolls,mostly from a MMA's standpoint are never contempt of just doing what they like among themselves. They must also attack us.

[CFT]

But don't we p i s s people off when we say Wing Chun is the best?


.... even if it is true? :D

[quiet man]

That's strange, I've been asking my self that same question.

Even if WC isn't the best style :D , I think it is the most bashed style. /And I don't think WC is the best style (there's no such style, IMHO), it's the best FOR ME/. When they hear I'm doing WC, people have this need to tell me how and why am I making a mistake :D ; it's always some stupid comment along the lines of "that wouldn't help you much against Vovchanchin..." or something like that. I don't preach; I'll tell you about WC if you ask me. Why do YOU try to convert ME?
I do WC. I have never trained any other art and I would never go around telling people why karate is bad or why they shouldn't train BJJ. I DON'T CARE about your style (other than comparing it against wing chun FOR MY TRAINING PURPOSES). I leave you alone - is it too much to ask the same in return?
I spent 6 years of hard work in my kwoon and that still doesn't give me right to talk about WC like I know it inside-out. How much time have you spent doing WC?

So, if you know what's wrong with WC, please, please don't feel free to tell me about it.