Zen (Ch'an) Buddhism and Kung Fu

[Fu-Pow]

I'm currently reading a book called Zen and the Brain by James Austin MD. A very interesting book on some of the biology of meditation and the authors own experience as a Zen buddhist.

With all the ego wars and flaming that goes on this website (especially among CLF practitioners) I just curious how many of you guys practice some form of meditation?

Meditation is a way of obtaining inner objectivity (as opposed to outer objectivity which is basically the philosophy of science.) Objectivity means seeing something as it truely is without all the inherent biases that distort our view. It allows one to experience the state of "no self" and therefore reduce the impact that one's ego (or grasping self) has on behavior.

In talking to some of the guys at CLFMA.com I have gotten the impression that in addition to their CLF and Chinese Medicine studies they are also practitioners of Zen buddhism. Shaolin monks whether or not they had fighting skill were definitely practitioners of Zen buddhism.

I've also noticed that the mindset needed for seated meditation (as in Zazen) and internal kung fu/chi gung practice are very similar. Attention is mainly focused to the breath and the dantien (center of gravity.)

It seems that purely external practice lacks this meditative quality. I have also noticed that because my CLF school focuses on mostly the external techniques that the attitude of some people in our school is very bad and the external practice does not help it get any better. When you practice externally your energy and intention gets thrown out all around your body. When you do nothing to collect it back to your dan tien it tends to make one very agitated and excited. I considering including some Chi Gung at the end of kung fu class just so people can get back to a less agitated state.

Just some random observations.

Comments appreciated.

[Just a Guy]

Austin's book has much to offer, whether you agree with all of his assumptions/reasonings or not.

Some martial traditions, notably those rooted in the Wutang Shan styles, and those with strong ties to their Shaolin roots, include meditative study as an aspect of a complete curriculum.

My school is a Ch'an school foremost (for instance), and we use the martial arts as a means of meditative practice and development - not unlike the Tantrism of Lions' Roar. That isn't to say we don't trains apps really hard, it's just that combat is used as an opportunity to develop "being here now". - That "no self" you are talking about ;)

Shaolin of old were reknowned for thier fighting skills. Isn't it ironic that those skills were a byproduct of walking the path to enlightenment?

[Fu-Pow]

Originally posted by Just a Guy


Shaolin of old were reknowned for thier fighting skills. Isn't it ironic that those skills were a byproduct of walking the path to enlightenment?

That's kind of why I posted on this. I don't think it is ironic because meditation allows you to fully focus on what you are doing without the distraction of your ego getting in the way. Also according to Austin it allows you the mental flexibility to focus that attention on one thing very intensely to the point of absorption and then expand that awarness outward to a very large peripheral focus.

[David Jamieson]

well, i would have to say that many of the schools that purport to practice Chan leave out the buddhism entirely!

While Chan is "seated meditation" it is no small potato that the "intention and mindfulness" within the meditative practice is drawn from buddhist teachings.

without dogma and doctrine does not mean without fundamentals and foundations such as:

the four noble truths

the eight fold path

the three treasures

these are just as important to chan practice and are all to frequently left aside in martial arts schools.

a martial arts school after all has a "master", it's "lessons" and it's "community", the wu de of the school is or should be modeled on the eight fold path for the most part and the four noble truths are the impetus for doing kungfu in my not so humble opinion.

I am unsure if this approach or something akin to it either remotely or alltogether is even used in most schools purveyance of Chan practice.

ah well, such is life :D

cheers

[Just a Guy]

Kung Lek,

Most of what I see of "Wu Te" in commercial schools is strongly rooted in the teachings of K'ung Fu-tzu, not Shakyamuni Buddha, or even Lao-tzu. Not that this is bad - it's just that "martial morailty" in most Chinese traditions is based upon Confucian humanism.

There are places where one can study the kind of Ch'an that has an associated martial practice (including emphasis on the Mahayana Bodhisattva ideal, the four noble truths, and various sutras); there just aren't very many such places.

I'm in agreement with the following: One who attempts to practice Right Meditation in isolation from the rest of the path is like a person attempting to bathe in a tub full of sh!t.

[David Jamieson]

Just a Guy-

I agree that the ethics and morality associated with martialism is drawn from a Confucian influence.

But in terms of Buddhist or Taoist Kungfu, they come from Buddha and Lao tzu and Chuang Tzu precepts as well.

I think in military styles you are spot on in regards to Confucian Mo duk and I do think that in ones life, following Chinese cultural paradigms you can flow from Confucianism through buddhism and into Taoism :)

I think that Buddhist Kungfu, such as is Shaolin and all it's offspring, the methods, reasons and teachings are drawn primarily from Buddhism. Also, the Wu De of Shaolin is thoroughly rooted in "Avoid rather than Check, Check rather than maim, maim rather than kill and never kill because all life is precious and none can be replaced". Not to mention many other odds and sods :)

In Taoist Kungfu, we see the same thing, where precepts from the philosophy are used to instill the knowledge in the student. Taoism is much more maya and nebulous to the western paradigm and is not as readiuly explained with mere words as buddhism can be to a greater degree and confucianism can.

Confucious definitely has a place in Chinese thought though, thanks for bringing it up.

cheers