1954 White Crane - Tai Chi fight

[Phil Redmond]

For any one interested here's the link to the fight that took place in Macau in 1954 http://kwoon2.free.fr/NgvsChan.WMV

The old fighter is Ng(Wu) Gong Yee(Wu TC). He is the son of Ng(Wu) Gan Chuan. The guy doing a form demo in the beginning is Dong Ying Jei, a student of the famous Yang Ching Fu(Yang style large frame).

The White Crane style here is Tibetian White Crane, master Chen (the younger fighter) has boxing background also. Some one says that Chen might still be alive

[Water Dragon]

It's so refreshing to get a unique thread idea around here for a change. Thanks Phil!

[red5angel]

looks like the footwork was sloppy for both guys. Some good connects but a couple of shots to the head should ring someones bell pretty good. No connection to the gorund or in the body....
and why does the one dude with the flat top keep slapping at the other guys hand?

[Phil Redmond]

Originally posted by Water Dragon
It's so refreshing to get a unique thread idea around here for a change. Thanks Phil!
You're welcome. Don't tell you you guys go through the same crap here as on the Wing Chun forum? LOLOLOL

[red5angel]

I think for once I'd like to see a couple of kungfu guys who are at the top, not fight like a couple of sissies. I'm not trying to be disrespectful here but when I spar and most of the people I have seen spar, never look like their just mindlessley throwing punches. In this fight and that other one with the white crane guy that's been around forever both combatants look like their just windmilling most of the time.

[Phil Redmond]

Originally posted by red5angel
I think for once I'd like to see a couple of kungfu guys who are at the top, not fight like a couple of sissies. I'm not trying to be disrespectful here but when I spar and most of the people I have seen spar, never look like their just mindlessley throwing punches. In this fight and that other one with the white crane guy that's been around forever both combatants look like their just windmilling most of the time.
I'm no White Crane expert but doesn't WhtC have swinging movements like the guy is using in the fight?

[red5angel]

I thnk so, and for the most part, in deference to the WC people, all the WC people I have seen fight use that and I say kudos. I'm sure there are some other techniques out there that both those guys use as well but for the most part it just looks too sloppy and weak, not like the fighting I see on a day to day basis by any means.

[Cipher]

I'm no expert but it seems like they didn't have a lot contact sparring in their training routine. It's amazing the difference sparring with medium to heavy contact can make a difference compared to only doing forms and drills.

[red5angel]

cipher, what brings you to that conclusion?

[norther practitioner]

red fizzle, take it easy, I'm around for you to try and take stupid shots at now.

No need getting the unedumicaterd involved.

[red5angel]

LOL! Well I'm mostly curious where cipher got hit information. As for these guys fighting,maybe it's just that the generations now are pushing themselves harder to fight like they are taught? Maybe all those stories about these rough and tumble ass kickers back in china just aren't true and it turns out most of them flail like catholic school girls in a tizzy?
All I know is that the more video footage I see of these guys actually fighting the more disappointed I am.
Now back to banging the crap out of your mom!!!

[norther practitioner]

If your into the 60+ crowd, have fun man...

I'm saying, the fights might not have looked the way you think they should have looked, but the "masters" may still have kicked everyone elses aszes


edit
oh, and can you tell your girl to shave.. my thighs are starting to get irritated.

[Chinwoo-er]

I think we have seen plenty of examples where people train techniques and dont' spent enough time of powers or gongs.

I think this fight is a perfect example of the contrary. I think they have got plenty of gongs. But really poor in their technique training

[red5angel]

I'm not saying I expect these fights to look like something out of hollywood, but some basic fighting principles would be nice, wheres the root? The body connections? Where's the steady footwork and recognizeable techniques? I have a serious hard time believing that these guys could take anyone else who had been seriously studying.
Maybe what has happened is that since these guys got the art passe don to them, and found some folowers, it all got blown out of proportion and they started to believe what they were being told, that they are good fighters?
All I know is by watching that performance I'm pretty sure that I would bet on me if it were me or them. Crap atleast I know where to put my hands to guard.

[red5angel]

oh yeah, and 60+ is what I like to consider "well seasoned" ;) You know aged steak is better and all that.

[norther practitioner]

The lack of covering up did kind of strike me as one of the major things missing.

[red5angel]

and that's basically what I am talking about. In my experience with sparring and even some fights I have witnessed, the most basic of fighters protect themselves. In more seasoned fighters, guards are strong, footwork is steady and blows are more structured for the most part. To me, these guys looke like they have been learning for almost a year.

[norther practitioner]

I think they were both tanked when they got there.

Oh, and does your girl like bananna flavor, or strawberry, I need more jimmy's, figured I'd get some flavored ones too for her, give her a treat this time.

[red5angel]

she says she liked the cherry stuff I had left over from that last trip to your moms, you know, yesterday.


Could be, that's really the only explanation, drunken fighting.

[dodger87]

the clip had sound effects... odd. maybe this was taken out of a movie? what proof was there to show that this was actually a fight from 1954 between two kung fu masterS?

[David Jamieson]

i personally prefer the "Boztepe vs Cheung" fight. The flailing and turtling aspect just had better appeal for me. "My shoes are slippy! My shoes! ahhhhhh" hahahahahahahah!

but old men scrapping young men is good too, if it's a bumfight tape that is LOL.

hardeeharhar

cheers

[norther practitioner]

The sound effects happen to just about any ma related thing that comes out of china..
Watch a wushu documentary sometime.

[Archangel]

Rufus from Bumfights would kill either of those guys

[SevenStar]

I posted a link to this a while back

[backbreaker]

MMA promoters favorite CMA film. Poison hand, what? Black hand mutha****a

[GeneChing]

We're pretty desensitized to what fights might have looked like back in the day. Too many images of NHB, or WWE, or worse, Mortal Kombat. In times of old, things were quite different. Ever watch old boxing footage? It looks pretty funny if you compare it to today's fights? A lot has changed. A lot of the artifice of duelling is lost - for good of for bad. The focus is all on winning today, so many old constraints are discarded. Here, in this footage, we can see an interesting fusion - western duelling vs. eastern - note that it's not fought on a Leitai, it's fought in a ring, with a bell no less (and some pretty loose ropes). The lack of guard positions is something strange - perhaps a throwback to old kung fu duels where you approached with your guard down. Who knows? Certainly, given the fightts, it's a constraint that both players are honoring. All in all, the footage looks fairly authentic, more so from the audience.

[Water Dragon]

That may very well be true Gene. But if it is, that's just more ammo for the argument that MA are more effective today than they were 'in the Old Days'

IMO, of course.

[Knifefighter]

Originally posted by Water Dragon
That may very well be true Gene. But if it is, that's just more ammo for the argument that MA are more effective today than they were 'in the Old Days' Of course fighting is more effective today. Every other area of human performance is more advanced than it was 50 or 100 years ago. Fighting is no different, although some "masters" have a vested interest in having their students believe otherwise.

[Phil Redmond]

Originally posted by Kung Lek
i personally prefer the "Boztepe vs Cheung" fight. The flailing and turtling aspect just had better appeal for me. "My shoes are slippy! My shoes! ahhhhhh" hahahahahahahah!

I hear you man. I just can't stand those slippery kung fu shoes. ;)

[MasterKiller]

Originally posted by Phil Redmond

I hear you man. I just can't stand those slippery kung fu shoes. ;) You ever worn cotton-soled shoes on a basketball court?

To quote Chris Rock, "I'm not saying he should have killed her....but I understand."

[GeneChing]

But if it is, that's just more ammo for the argument that MA are more effective today than they were 'in the Old Days'
I'm not sure you can take things out of context like that. That's somewhat my point earlier. It's all about the context. Let's say, for argument's sake, that my presumption of duelling with your guard down was a constraint of fighting duels - then to fight with your guard up would be against the code of combat and completely inappropriate. It would be ineffective for that time.

Take as another example, the old school of rifle warfare. In days of old, rifles weren't nearly as good and firearm combat was based on cold weapon. So troops would line up, face off, and take turns shooting volleys into each other. Now, with the American revolution, someone came up with the idea of breaking lines and shooting from behind trees. Sure that's more effective, but prior to that, it was dirty pool, so to speak. Dishonorable. Nowadays, with the amount of personal firearms, martial arts has really evolved.

With any art, in order to fully understand it, you must understand the context. And any art - to truly be an art - has to express that context effectively.

[red5angel]

Gene, I think you make a valid point about the differences, and I can agree with you for the most part. My only issue is that these guys are generally supposed to be known as having mastered their respective systems, but when it comes to throwing down, even old school, they show little to no proper technique and a lack of ability in the basics that system is supposed to have taught at that time.

[norther practitioner]

good referrence to the American Revolution Gene...

I was thinking of that before, right after your last post.

[David Jamieson]

i dunno, I do agree with gene on this in regards to context and the rules that were facing both those dudes.

as funny as that film appears (and the emin vs william one i alluded toearlier) I have seen many a ufc and nhb fight where the fighters totally su.cked bag and sucked it hard.

really, the ratio is frightening and so many of those guys shouldn't even be in the ring at all.

even in pro boxing, how many guys went down to Tyson in 91 seconds or less? what does that say about the quality of world championship boxers?

what about the last ufc where vitor took all of what? less than 30 seconds to dump couture? that sucked hard! lol and people felt ripped off for thei ticket price too!

so, is fighting more effiinet now than it was then? well, no, it's not, but dueling rules change all the time.

the killing attitude is a whole different story though. IN sports you train for the sport you're in and you train to the best of your ability, but for 1000's of years martial artists from a traditional background and methodology have been effectively killing their enemies.

cheers

[rubthebuddha]

kl -- vitor didn't really dump anyone. he cut open couture's eyelid with a loose piece of his glove. even vitor said it was total crap. :)

or was it strongbad?

[Knifefighter]

Originally posted by Kung Lek
... but for 1000's of years martial artists from a traditional background and methodology have been effectively killing their enemies. Only when weapons were thrown into the mix.

[MasterKiller]

Originally posted by Knifefighter
Only when weapons were thrown into the mix. Nah. There are plenty of stories of people killing each other hand-to-hand. Sure, they're stories, but some of them are pretty consistent. The 'too deadly' argument comes from all the throat, temple, eye strikes etc... that were developed to kill or disable someone quickly in the heat of combat. I mean, c'mon, do you think Navy SEALS rely on a low roundhouse and jabs when they are on covert military missions and need to take someone out quickly? I'm sure they use plenty of techniques that would fit right in within the context of CMA styles. Look at the diversity in Chin Na techniques and applications. The Chinese developed thousands of methods to lock out joints.I don't think you'd see the diversity of hand-to-hand systems in CMA if people were only relying on weapons alone to kill one another. And then there were historical periods when weapons were banned altogether....

Of course, maybe CMA fight stories are within context, being that a CMA player could kill other CMA players bare-handed because CMA hand-to-hand sucks in general, but I really don't think that's the case, either.

I think the fallout occured when CMA had to go underground due to government regulations, and all the secrecy was enforced to keep the traditions from being lost forever. If you have to practice alone, at 3 in the morning, in a woodshed, for fear of being killed, you just do a lot of forms and can't afford to test yourself very often in public. That's what we've inherited, but times have changed, the political climate no longer affects our training, and it's time for CMA players to try to discover their real heritage and start hitting one another again.

[Knifefighter]

Originally posted by MasterKiller
I mean, c'mon, do you think Navy SEALS rely on a low roundhouse and jabs when they are on covert military missions and need to take someone out quickly? Uh, no. They use a weapon... the same as all intelligent people have done throughout history. First of all, the Seal operator strives for avoidance, rather than "taking someone out" and, if he does have to do this in a non-obtrusive manner, he will probably use a knife.


Originally posted by MasterKiller
And then there were historical periods when weapons were banned altogether....Can't ban sticks, farm implements, rocks, etc. Figthing with any of these things will almost always be much more effecient at trying to kill someone than trying to it empty-handed.


Originally posted by MasterKiller
There are plenty of stories of people killing each other hand-to-hand.It is not uncommon for kids playing baseball to die after being struck in the chest by a ball. This doesn't make baseball an efficient method for fighting and killing someone.

[MasterKiller]

Originally posted by Knifefighter
Uh, no. They use a weapon... the same as all intelligent people have done throughout history. First of all, the Seal operator strives for avoidance, rather than "taking someone out" and, if he does have to do this in a non-obtrusive manner, he will probably use a knife. No argument here, but I'm sure they also know how to fight reasonably well without a knife, and I'm pretty sure they know how to use strikes that would be illegal in a sport environment.


Can't ban sticks, farm implements, rocks, etc. Figthing with any of these things will almost always be much more effecient at trying to kill someone than trying to it empty-handed. Again, no argument. But there's still a plethora of hand-to-hand techniques, so it stands to reason that people were developing these things to use. Necessity is the mother of invention....not boredom.


It is not uncommon for kids playing baseball to die after being struck in the chest by a ball. This doesn't make baseball an efficient method for fighting and killing someoneThat's a pretty stupid analogy, all things considering.

[SifuAbel]

Originally posted by Knifefighter


Of course fighting is more effective today. Every other area of human performance is more advanced than it was 50 or 100 years ago. Fighting is no different, although some "masters" have a vested interest in having their students believe otherwise.

The reverse is true, todays coaches have the same vested interests in making people think they are the martial gods of the present , better than anything before them. Thats arrogance shipped in a shiny plastic wrapper for 29.99. In any era there will be bad, good and exceptional fighters.

Fighting is something we've been doing as a species for 3 million years. It isn't a new technology by any stretch of the imagination. Somewhere down that long road of time somebody had to be better than the guys of today.

Thats like saying we have better sex than the court of caligula ever had. And sex is older than fighting by about 15 minutes

[Knifefighter]

Funny how the world records in just about any measurable human activity are better today... but somehow fighting is different. Oh well, some people still believe the world is round, there was no Holocaust, and man never stepped foot on the moon.

[SifuAbel]

as recorded by whom?!?!?

Guiness doesn't date back very far. All of human existance is not measurable by the last 50 years. You have absolutely no idea if 100 years before the modern olympic games started somebody in africa was running a 3.5 minute mile or sombody in Italy dead lifting 600 pounds,And so on.

Most of what people concider "superior" fighting today is purely subjective in any case. Its superior, In you're opinion.

Its pure arrogance.

[SifuAbel]

"Oh well, some people still believe the world is round, there was no Holocaust, and man never stepped foot on the moon."

So does that make you a "flat earther".

[Knifefighter]

Originally posted by SifuAbel
So does that make you a "flat earther". Oops! Got me on that one.
SifuAbel-1
Knifefighter- 3,762

[David Jamieson]

right, right, sorry, couture got cut.

ok, another example then....


hmmmm AHA! Fred Ettish, ok? does that redeem my coupon and avlidate what I said? :D

cheers

[SifuAbel]

Originally posted by Knifefighter
Oops! Got me on that one.
SifuAbel-1
Knifefighter- 3,762

Ha! retorts you tell yourself in the mirror or number of times you swirl it in your head don't count. Also, "oh yeah?!?!" doesn't count either.

[jon]

Thats like saying we have better sex than the court of caligula ever had. And sex is older than fighting by about 15 minutes
*Thats darn funny :D

[SifuAbel]

:D

I was expecting another "brilliant" retort from KF but I guess he's out with his friends threatening each them with a blade to the throat just for fun.

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by MasterKiller
I mean, c'mon, do you think Navy SEALS rely on a low roundhouse and jabs when they are on covert military missions and need to take someone out quickly? I'm sure they use plenty of techniques that would fit right in within the context of CMA styles.

One of the bjj purple belts I'm always talking about was a SEAL - I'll ask him tomorrow. I'm positive what his answer will be though, as he has not standup skill at all, as far as striking goes. He's a world caliber judo player though.


I think the fallout occured when CMA had to go underground due to government regulations, and all the secrecy was enforced to keep the traditions from being lost forever. If you have to practice alone, at 3 in the morning, in a woodshed, for fear of being killed, you just do a lot of forms and can't afford to test yourself very often in public. That's what we've inherited, but times have changed, the political climate no longer affects our training, and it's time for CMA players to try to discover their real heritage and start hitting one another again.

That sounds reasonable.

[scotty1]

Very reasonable.

[SifuAbel]

"and it's time for CMA players to try to discover their real heritage and start hitting one another again."

As far as I'm concerned, this is a rescent developement. We hit each other from the beginning. From my observation, contact has steadily declined only in the last 12 to 15 years.

[David Jamieson]

Abel-

the form demo was nice. That is tai shing pek kwa?

cheers

[dodger87]

So, does anyone have any proof this is an actual video clip from 1954 between 2 masters?

[MasterKiller]

Originally posted by dodger87
So, does anyone have any proof this is an actual video clip from 1954 between 2 masters? Kung Lek has proof that it was actually filmed in 1984 on the same studio set as the Apollo moon landing, but the free masons won't let him show it for some stupid reason.

[lkfmdc]

Funny how this fight is so hyped in the TCMA community until the actual footage turns up.... My sifu was a close friend of Chan Hak Fu's and my teacher, quite a fighter actually (I mean in reality) always said that while Chan Hak Fu was training in Hong Kong, not known for producing big fighters as far as the mainland and military was concerned, was known as a fighter because of this match

The key being that my sifu, having been in the PLA on the mainland, had never seen the match.

So one day we are in a video store, we see a copy for sale, my teacher buys it and back to the school's vcr we go

My Sifu watches it ONCE, takes it out of the vcr, puts it in his bag and told me we should never talk about this match again

true story :D

[lkfmdc]

Originally posted by MasterKiller
Kung Lek has proof that it was actually filmed in 1984 on the same studio set as the Apollo moon landing, but the free masons won't let him show it for some stupid reason.

Wait until you hear his convincing explanation of how the video is actually a Jewish plot to steal oil out of Iraq :rolleyes:

[David Jamieson]

stuff it ross, you're just a goof.

mk, that was pretty funny.

:D

[red5angel]

Wait until you hear his convincing explanation of how the video is actually a Jewish plot to steal oil out of Iraq

I didn't know Bush and the UN were Jews?!

[David Jamieson]

you 2 guys having sex with each other or something?

[lkfmdc]

the wonderful thing about conspiracy theoriest like Kung Lek is that their "ideas" don't have to have any logic at all to them and can simultaneously contradict themselves internally

German fascists simultaneously blamed Jews for Capitalist exploitation of their economy and for also being communist bent on destroying capitalism ..... :rolleyes:

KL, better get your tin foil hat ready, the black helicopters are coming for you

[GeneChing]

Now that KL's stepped down from moderation, he can be king of the flame wars. ;)

Back to the notions of "old school" and who "should be in the ring at all", a lot of that is over romanticized, IMO. Sure, I don't want to appear unfilial, the old masters were great and all, but who of us is really qualified to say what the "old school" was like? Was it really that different? Or was it like this video? History can play tricks on your perceptions, tainted by your world personal world view. A lot of people want to imagine that martial arts is so much better - that fights should be so much cleaner. But fights are fights, and any of us who have really stepped into a ring know that while a clean, old school technique is all fine a dandy, I'd rather opt for the technique that scores.

The video looks fairly authentic - maybe the exact date is not correct, but who would bother to stage something like this as a charade? What would be gained? So I think that the validity isn't so much an issue here. Even if the date is off by a bit, it still stands as an interesting historical document for our field where few such documents exist.

It also shows us that when you rely on a right "stamp the seal" punch to heavily, you can get clocked upside the head real easy.

[David Jamieson]

The video is authentic, even eddie wu who runs the wu tai chi school here in T.O has it up on his site. That is his Grandpa after all in that match.

So, If eddie says it's for real, then it's for real. It is his lineage after all. :D

Gene~ I am not comfortable with being a "flamer" lol, but Ok and only if I get to wear the Red robes with the gold dragon and I am NOT putting on the opera makeup for no-one!

It's hard to fight and look good. Heck, it's hard to do a horse stance properly when your sihing won't shut up and keeps correcting you while you are trying to quiet yourself lol.

Ross, I would take you on as a new nemesis, but I'd feel bad about making fun of the mentally handicapped (is that still a pc term?) and besides Waterdragon hasn't stepped down from it yet, and red5 is making some inroads in becoming the #2 banana for the position.

You are not worthy yet in that regards. So keep waxing off and you'll get there college boy.

:p

to the rest...kind regards from Canada, still bigger, still on top!

[Water Dragon]

I'm confused now. Are Gene and KL argiuing that what's on that video is indeed 'good Kung Fu'?

Please tell me that's not what's going on here.

[David Jamieson]

waterdragon-

get the bong out of your mouth and throw some water on your face. :D

I am saying that the video is authentic. I have already stated elsewhere that I thought the kungfu was total cr@p, but I do understand now that both duelists where under a load of bogus rules imposed on them and a whole bunch of other dumb stuff, so, i can see why it is so crappy.

ok?

ok, go back to your happy bubbles smoky session now.

[lkfmdc]

reading Kung Lek's posts are like watching those retarded kids at the special olympics

in one way it's sort of cute that they have this false sense of achievement, but in another it's so pathetic that they don't realize how retarded they are

[David Jamieson]

reading Kung Lek's posts are like watching those retarded kids at the special olympics

in one way it's sort of cute that they have this false sense of achievement, but in another it's so pathetic that they don't realize how retarded they are

That's rich coming from you Ross. You know, you were spouting off about how I was the one filled with hate? remember? Oh yeah, I forgot that you are just a goof who is horribly punch drunk. I'm sorry, oop, you got a bit of drool there little buddy. :D

here's some lego blocks

[red5angel]

but I do understand now that both duelists where under a load of bogus rules


right, that's why there is aparently no kungfu skill whatsoever in either of those guys, because of all the rules.

[lkfmdc]

That's just it dude, you will NEVER get it

You post the most ignorant and ridiculous crap known to mankind and never notice that 90% of the BBS is rolling on the floor dying of laughter at you.

Some people post stupid stuff, and when it is revealed to them, they recognize it.... you are the best kind of joke, because you don't even know when you are being laughed at and the kind of fool you are

Keep posting about zionism, rothchilds, trilateral commissions, numerology, etc etc

You are the poster boy for uneducated, ignorant biggots who believe anything that they are told....

BUT HAVE A NICE DAY :D

[SifuAbel]

Originally posted by Kung Lek
Abel-

the form demo was nice. That is tai shing pek kwa?

cheers

My sigung just calls it pek kwar. My sifu thinks its more related to tzu jan men.

Either way this monkey style is bundled with the sung longfist and is very old.

So, uhhhhhhhhhhh, i dunno..........

[David Jamieson]

You post the most ignorant and ridiculous crap known to mankind and never notice that 90% of the BBS is rolling on the floor dying of laughter at you.

uh, I believe you have defined yourself there dave. lol

Abel- thanks, cool, definitely looks like monkey style to be sure.

red5- read teh whoel thread, you'll get the gist. Better yet think of it this way:

promoter:You need to demonstrate your art.

fighter: ok

promoter: but you have to do it in a venue that looks western

fighter: ok

promoter: you can't use any throws, gouges, elbows, knees

fighter: ok, uh, but now it's getting away from my art

promoter: but i will give you money

fighter: how much money?

promoter: lots

fighter: hmmmm, well ok, but i'm telling you, it's not really gonna amount to anything.

promoter: I don't care, these idiots who clamour at ringside with their bloodlust and vicarious desires will pay me and you lots!

fighter: uh, well ok

and so on. sort of like the time when bruce lee and muhammad ali got it on :D

Back to Dave Ross for one second, I make a couple of posts and you go off like a bottle rocket, you are such a goofball it is amazing. And you are a whiner to boot. Anyway, whatever goofball, keep chirping away like the weiny you are. you are entertaining that is fo sho mo fo.

Gene- seriously, I have a day off and that is why I'm so "unleashed", It's like i've been holding it all in and this new found freedom just exlaxed me deluxo! I will calm down and get back to serious kungfu discussion forthwith!

cheers

[Water Dragon]

I know you're trying to be funny KL, but you're coming across as a c*ck.

[David Jamieson]

well why don't you cry about it waterdragon?

yeesh, you guys wanna be all nice and flowery now after you give me 3 years of grief???? :mad:

no way muchachos, some of you got it coming from me.

I've said before that I bet if you tried hard enough you could get the Dalai Lamma to throw a rock at your head.

Not that I would ever compare myself with such a soul, because I am but excrement beside such a soul, I am just saying.

c0ck enough for ya? I got more, I'm mad as hell and I'm not gonna take it anymore! :D

[lkfmdc]

got to love the fact that Kung Lek is too stupid to realize that the more he posts, the more he just proves my point. A smarter man would remain silent rather than demonstrate beyond a shadow of a doubt what sort of a$$ he really is

Let's review a few of KL's statements, these are DIRECT QUOTES


- "W's grandaddy preston is known to have helped out the National Socialist party of Germany during the second world war."

- "Iraq still under the thumb of the rothchilds army"

- "the latin phrase under the pyramid on teh US dollar"

- "I hope that you understand that this type of numerology is only important in kabbalah and free masonry"

- anyone got any idea of what the numbers mean? teh 3/11, 9/11 and 911 days in between? That is interesting and I would reiterate that numerological alignments are much more important to kabbalah and freemasonry and not important to islam"

- "Jews should fully integrate with teh rest of the world like therest of us"

If these don't convince you he is an anti-semitic, ignorant, raging lunatic, might be time for you to look in the mirror also

[David Jamieson]

and , uh, Dave, this has what to do with the subject, I mean besides the fact that you're a goof? LOL

you saved all that conspiracy theory junk? hahahahaha and you saved it out of context, that is so smart for a dullard like yourself.

who's the conspiracy theorist now?

anyway, moving right along...

[lkfmdc]

the subject is, you're a jerk, and I didn't have to save it, you put up so much of it I didn't have to do anyting but cut and paste, just edited out some of the sillier stuff, if you can imagine stuff sillier than the above

If I didn't have sympathy for Gene, Tiger Claw and the magazine, I'd just forward your trash to the ADL and have your butt kicked so far off this BBS you'd be back with your backwoods KKK buddies on IM.....

[David Jamieson]

Hey ross you big blubbering baby, why don't you go cry about it to your mommy.

what a ***** you are!

Go cry to the adl then why don't you. Quit talking and take action. Be a man for gods sake and quit being such a little girl.

Go rat out someone for exercising free speech you nazi piece of crap.

[David Jamieson]

Oh and yes I am a jerk to people like you ross. YOu need jerks like me to get up in your bully faces and talk straight to your trash and BS.

So take it and don't be such a thin skinned weiner if you're gonna throw your feces all over the place.

I can't believe you, but I guess I have to, cause there you are.

[lkfmdc]

Got to love the anti-semitic fascist trying to toss around the Nazi tag!

What's the matter? Your poor trash background makes you want to believe the big bad Jew is the reason your life is so deprived? Conspiracy theory is easier to accept than taking personal responsibility for your own retarded state of existance.

What are you angry about? that you tripped up and so blatantly exposed your putrid hate and wallowing ignorance? Fascists in glass houses really shouldn't throw rocks....

[MasterKiller]

Keep is civil, boys.

[lkfmdc]

MK, there is nothing civil about this poor excuse for a human being, the only real question is why he hasn't been booted for good. I'm pretty sure if something racist, h om o phobic or sexist had been posted that action would have been taken, so what's the deal here?

[David Jamieson]

The deal is the deal Dave.

One day, in the not too distant future you will have an opportunity to have me at arms length.

Let's finish our conversation then shall we?

nuff said?
cheers

[lkfmdc]

dude, you have no idea how badly I am gonna smack you, then your paranoid fantasies about weak Jews are gonna really kick you in the a$$....

don't hold back dude, just pull out your iron cross and white sheet and let it all hang out..... then the whole world will see exactly what kind of trash you are

[MasterKiller]

Originally posted by lkfmdc
MK, there is nothing civil about this poor excuse for a human being, the only real question is why he hasn't been booted for good. I'm pretty sure if something racist, h om o phobic or sexist had been posted that action would have been taken, so what's the deal here? I say racist, ****phobic, and sexists stuff all the time. Context. It's all about context. I think KL was initially speaking a little tongue-in-cheek, and then it got out of hand.

[David Jamieson]

dude, you have no idea how badly I am gonna smack you


Well i guess that remains to be seen doesn't it Dave?

By the way, My name is David too.

[Face2Fist]

SO! those sound effects were pretty cool huh?

[lkfmdc]

It's amazing how people want to coddle this clearly anti-semitic moron. Let me ONCE AGAIN remind you what he wrote

- "I hope that you understand that this type of numerology is only important in kabbalah"

- anyone got any idea of what the numbers mean? teh 3/11, 9/11 and 911 days in between? That is interesting and I would reiterate that numerological alignments are much more important to kabbalah"

that my friends is a school of Jewish thought and religion. Kung Lek is basicly saying Jews are behind 9/11 and the attack in Spain.

And let's not forget

- "Jews should fully integrate with teh rest of the world like the rest of us"

[Face2Fist]

it was funny, how they hit each other in the video, and then the sound they made.... i thought it was funny

[MasterKiller]

Don't be silly. Everyone knows Iraq was behind 9/11.

[lkfmdc]

MK, I know you are trying to be light hearted, but I find NOTHING funny about this sort of stuff. It should be really clear what KL was implying, and it's amazing that people would want to let it slide

[MasterKiller]

Fair enough.

[lkfmdc]

Funny how this fight is so hyped in the TCMA community until the actual footage turns up.... My sifu was a close friend of Chan Hak Fu's and my teacher, quite a fighter actually (I mean in reality) always said that while Chan Hak Fu was training in Hong Kong, not known for producing big fighters as far as the mainland and military was concerned, was known as a fighter because of this match

The key being that my sifu, having been in the PLA on the mainland, had never seen the match.

So one day we are in a video store, we see a copy for sale, my teacher buys it and back to the school's vcr we go

My Sifu watches it ONCE, takes it out of the vcr, puts it in his bag and told me we should never talk about this match again

true story :D

[MasterKiller]

Did the footage getting out damage the guys rep any? Or do people still hype him?

[lkfmdc]

My take on the whole thing has a few parts

1. It is definitely a good tool when people try and say the "old guys" were "so much better" (like someone did on here recently). The old bias in some circles about sparring because the techniques were "too deadly" coupled with no real fights (because the British and Nationalist governments cracked down on public challenge matches and general street mayhem) equaled a lot of guys who had never used their skills in any realistic way

2. It is a good tool to show that traditional Chinese martial arts people, a lot of them (NOT ALL) have some pretty strange ideas about "good fighting" and related issues. The fact the match was stopped because a bloody nose was viewed as life threatening!!

3. To Chan's credit, he learned from this horrible debacle. He instituted sparring in his organization with gloves and competitions and eventually his white crane school produced some good fighters

[Face2Fist]

i laughed when that guy hit that guy with his fist. the other guy went ouch!

[red5angel]

Not that I would ever compare myself with such a soul, because I am but excrement beside such a soul,



well, the second half of that part is right for sure! :D

keeerist kung lek, how old are you anyway? These last few pages of post have me wondering. I was under the impression you were well over 12 yrs of age but now I'm not so sure.
By the way Ross, I'm not going to let his attitude slide, as long as he wants to spout out his political crap on this forum I am goign to continue to attack it, I declare Jihad on Kung leks Stupidity!!!


On topic:

I'm really dissappointed in these videos. Regardless of whether they were promotional or not. IT says one thing one way or another, either these guys really just sucked ass at fighting, sorry Gene, I don't care what time period it was, these guys aren't showing a whole lot of actualy kungfu skill here. My guess if you talked to someone currently who studies either of those guys arts, they'd tell youa btou structure, foot work ,power generation, and all that, things you don't see in that footage.
If they are goofing around because of the promotional aspect of it then they are so wiling to sell out such a tradition that they can't be trusted to have past on a credible art.

[David Jamieson]

:D

you guys are both weiners LOL

wait til you find out what all your bowing and form openings are in context to enochian magick as prescribed by John Dee!:eek:

in reference to that film, it's a whacky thing that people like to pull out so they can say trad MA-ists all suck.

We know that we don't. And only red5 and Ross suck and are secretly conspiring to lose the extra 45 pounds hanging off their butts so that maybe, just maybe, one day they can do some good kungfu if they try real hard!

Ha! riposte that! :D

[red5angel]

again KL your retardedness reigns, stop licking the windows on your short bus and pay attention for a second - I'm a TMA guy, I think TMA works just fine for my needs, even with my MMA experience. This video doesn't prove a whole lot except that those guys weren't half as good as they thought they were.


I've got one you should enjoy your conspiratorial *******. I'm starting to wonder if maybe the communist, who were working so hard to get rid of martial arts at the time, didn't pay off some of these guys to water down their art so that it was much more weak then it used to be, what do you think Ross?


and stop calling people weiners you dumb ass, it's sounds ghey.

[MasterKiller]

I think it's more likely the government made it hard for people to practice properly, so these guys just didn't spar very much, if at all.

[David Jamieson]

man, you can't even spell "gay".

quit using the term "retard" as well, it is very offensive to those people who may be socially challenged but are more tahn capable of contributing to society.

yours is an insidious form of hatred, which is the worst kind.
:mad:

weiner is a fairly harmless term used to describe an unhealthy, inedible tube of meat, not unlike yourself however and is more of a moot insult that does not harm segments of society who are valid and worthy.

I notice that you and the other weiner tend to use a lot of ****phobic and anti socially challenged terms.

pretty dispicable if ya ask me.
so jihad away weiner #2, I am fully capable of battling either of you intellectually or physically.

bring it if ya got it:mad:

to all else, cheers!:D

[Face2Fist]

i think this is better than the fight clip... hahaha

[MasterKiller]

BTW, Kung Lek, practice what you preach, man....

Originally posted by Kung Lek
I challenge seven* and rub to keep the racist undertones out of the main forum :D

I mean c'mon, wtf guys, I'm gone for one day and it goes that far downhill??

geez

[red5angel]

insidious form of hatred? you mean like hating jews and spreading conspiracy theories about things you don't have a clue about?
I use retard not to describe those unfortunate individuals who havemental handicaps,but your particular brand of stupid. So when you read "retard" in my post, just think "Kung Lek". ;)

weiner offends me, becqause it sounds really ghey, like your some sort of kid on the other side of that keyboard calling us names but can't get up the gumption to say something really cool and grown up like Dik, or fukknut. You'll also notice that while I spell it ghey - look the word up sometime ;), you said "gay", revealing some sort of ****phobia in yourself since you automatically associated what I was calling you with that particular label. Dumb ass.


so jihad away weiner #2, I am fully capable of battling either of you intellectually or physically.

Intellectually your getting the beat down, and I imagine either ross or I could take you with both hands tied behind our bags, and sleeping. If your fighting skills are anything like your understanding of the world, that fight would be in the bag.


Masterkiller, good point, I'm not clear on teh history of the chinese communist movement and it's affects on kungfu, just starting to learn about it now.

[red5angel]

I mean c'mon, wtf guys, I'm gone for one day and it goes that far downhill??


apparently your oblivious to irony, look who's at the middle of all this trouble. Ross and I are just trying to stop youyr infection from spreading, keep it in Canada!

[MasterKiller]

Originally posted by red5angel



apparently your oblivious to irony, look who's at the middle of all this trouble. Ross and I are just trying to stop youyr infection from spreading, keep it in Canada! That was in reference to WD's 'How long does it take to get rid of a BLack Guy" thread.

[red5angel]

right, that post was directed at KL, not you MK.

[rubthebuddha]

and the only people NOT being retards in this thread after page 3 -- MK, WD and Gene. everyone else is either being an infant, toddler or child. period.

sometimes i wish GDA would step in and show the rest of you guys what maturity is.