JAMA: Tongbei article

[Oso]

Great article overall, imo.

A little heavy on the usuall CMA 'higher level' bit.

A good in depth look at a rarely seen system of TCMA.

Any Tongbei practitioners here?

Isn't Tongbei one of the 17 root systems of NPM?

[norther practitioner]

I've seen very little of what I'd call traditional tong bei.. The wushu stuff either looks silly or cool as hell, not much on the inbetween.

[red5angel]

what's tongbei?

[Oso]

The wushu stuff either looks silly or cool as hell

:)
I'm going to see a demo of the new Olympic Tai Chi form next week. I'm all a shiver with anticipation.:rolleyes:



Tong Bei is one of the root systems of NPM. The second mentioned after Tai Tzu in the traditional poem listing the 17 styles Wong Long compiled to create NPM.

I finished reading the article this morning. It's pretty in depth in description of theory and training methods.

[Oso]

per the article:

"Tongbei is one of the more obscure and eclectic styles of Northern Chinese boxing, but it is well-recognized in Chinese culture as a martial art that has produced several great masters known especially for their fighting skills. In this article, we will describe some of the unique aspects and training methods of the Shi Style of Baiyuan Tongbei Quan, which translated literally, means 'white ape connected back boxing' "

a search of the PM forum will find several threads with mention of it.

[MasterKiller]

Originally posted by red5angel
what's tongbei? Referred to as White Ape boxing, generally. The Songshan Tongbei is "Fist through the Back." I'm unsure how the two are related (or unrelated).

[norther practitioner]

Some big arm swings, generating through the back...
Picture an enourmous ape slinging doo at you... not much in the elbow bending....

[norther practitioner]

Oh, and some of the wushu peeps sound like there playing pattycake when they do there form.

[Shaolinlueb]

isnt the shaolin tongbei form differnet from the actual tongbie style?

[MasterKiller]

Originally posted by Shaolinlueb
isnt the shaolin tongbei form differnet from the actual tongbie style? I think so, but I don't know much about it. The Shaolin Tongbei form I know looks nothing like the wushu Tongbei I've seen.

Here's some background....


Tongbei Quan or back-through Chuan, also called Tongbi Quan or arm-through Chuan, is one of the schools popular in north China. Due to its long history, it boasts of various names in different places, such as the Wuxing (five elements-metal, wood, water, fire and earth), six-combinations, five-monkey, axe-hitch and the Shaolin. Although there are different names, the different styles of Tangbei Quan are all based on the same Chuan theory and have the same origin. The major schools and styles of Tongbei Quan are as follows:

1. In 1937 Wu Tianxu wrote in his book Tongbei Quanshu that this school of Chuan had been called the back-through which was later changed to the white ape school and long-armed ape school. Qing Dynasty practitioners called it the traveling, traveling Chuan or Chang Quan (long-range Chuan).

2. Some say that Tongbei Quan was created in the period of the Five Dynasties (907-960) or in the Song Dynasty (960-1279). One theory is that it was created by Han Tong, recorded in some Chuan literature as one of the 18 Chuan masters of the ancient times. Another proposition says that it was created by Chen Tuan in the early Song Dynasty and in the middle of the Qing Dynasty Lu Yunqing taught it to Qi Taichang. In his book Wushu Theory, Xu Yusheng wrote that Chen Tuan, also called Chen Tu'nan, lived in seclusion in Mount Hua during the Five Dynasties. He could sleep for 100 days without getting up. Emperor Taizong of the Song Dynasty conferred a designation of Dr Xiyi on him. Chen was said to have created 12 sitting exercises.

3. Huang Zongxi, a well-known scholar of the Ming Dynasty (1368-1644), wrote in his Essay of Southern Thunderbolts, that Tongbei Quan was the best among all Chuan schools. Later, Huang Baijia in his biography of Dr Wang Zhengnan said that Tongbei Quan is Chang Quan or long-range Chuan. The arm-through Chuan can thus be said to have been popular in the Ming Dynasty.

4. According to the Chuan chronicles by Xiu Jianchi (1931), Qi Xin of Zhejiang went to teach the back-through Chuan at Gu'an in Hebei Province in the middle and latter half of the Qing Dynasty. His style was then called Qi-style Chuan which was later named as Tongbei or back-through Chuan. Qi's son, Qi Taichang improved and developed the Chuan techniques. People then divided Tongbei Quan into an old style (represented by father) and a new one (represented by son). The old style emphasizes simplicity and power whereas the new style concentrates on exquisiteness and suppleness. Many masters emerged in this school later. Tongbei Quan now in practice is generally divided into two styles. One has been passed down from Qi Xin, the father and the other from Qi Taichang, the son. Xiu Jianchi, a successor to the new style, combined the best elements of his predecessors and left his theoretical summaries on stances, methods and philosophy of the Chuan to his followers, Xiu's writings are precious materials for the study and research of Tongbei Quan.

Originally Tongbei did not refer to a school of Chuan but to a way of exercise. "Tong" (through) means to pass through and reach, "Bei" (back) means the human back. When the exercises are done, power is generated from the back to pass through the shoulders and then reach the arms. In this way, heavy blows can be delivered at the arm's length to control the opponent.

[norther practitioner]

If anyone has a subcribes here..

http://www.kungfu-taichi.com/servlet/kungfoo/Action/Resource/ResourceKey/837

[Oso]

The article shows 7 tong bei styles

Baiyuan

Pigua

Liangyi

Shaolin

Huoye

Liuhe

Hongdong

Then, under Baiyuan, 9 White Ape styles including Shi Pai which the article is specifically about.

btw, for full credit, the article is written by a Strider Clark.



get thee to a news stand

or a subscription. It's a very good magazine.

Other articles this quarter:

Zurkhaneh: The Iranian HOuse of STrength

The Art of Conversation: Random Flow TRaining in Visayan Corto Kadena Escrima

THe shape of Kata: THe enigma of Pattern


and a book review by an old kung fu brother of mine
gonna have to call that guy...

[norther practitioner]

THe shape of Kata: THe enigma of Pattern

Did you read that article yet?

Any good?

[Oso]

Not yet...it's by a Goju man and seems to focus on goju kata...

[norther practitioner]

Cool...
I just thought it might be interesting thing to add to the whole kata/form/toulu discussion thats been going on.

[Oso]

delibandit -- i think you may have misread intention in the posts. I don't believe any of us showed any skepticism. It was a great article and certainly gave up more information than most articles do.

Since tong bei seems to figure into NPM history, I also posted over on the PM forum. There was also some good discussion about it there.

salutations to you and your teacher.




btw, NP, I did read the goju article and it was very specific to them and their forms.

[norther practitioner]

Thanks OSO

[Oso]

no, problemo. welcome to the boards. I'm sure we would all enjoy anything you want to share about your training...obviously none of us knows anything about tongbei.:)

[Brad]

I'm going to see a demo of the new Olympic Tai Chi form next week. I'm all a shiver with anticipation.
WTF? The IWUF just announced they're switching to an individual forms format(which is REALLY going to make the taiji comeptition wierd :P) Why would they go an create an Olympic form when forms will be individually coreographed! So did you see the form? What was it like?

[SPJ]

These are all good postings. Tong Bei was considered the forefather of Long Boxing. It dated back as far as the warring states periods 2500 years ago. In Song Dynasty, General Han Tong summarized all the fighting methods at the time in the military. Which means it is practiced widely for a while already. I studied that before I studied Tai Ji or Ba Gua more than 25 years ago.

White Apes has 24 basic hands. there are songs and poems.
Five elements may be more recent addition.

There are five basic palms.
Throw (Suai zhang): use the back of your hand to hit the nose.
Pai
Zuan
Pi
Zhuan

All the other hand forms or methods are derived from the five palms.

Please refer to the book: The treasure book of Chinese martial arts" www.authorhouse,com

There are several chapters on Tong Bei. My basic Wushu learning started with Tong Bei and Long boxing before Tai Ji and Ba Gua.

Tong Bei means extended back or arm. The Jin is from the foot and you have to relax all the way. The Jin travels to waist, back, shoulder, arm and then the hand. you hit like a whip that lashes. Go long and hit far. (Hwan Zhang Jih Yeng)

There is a classical saying that "Learn how to hit with Tong Bei; learn how to walk with Ba Gua; learn how to be gentle with Tai Ji"
Which was exactly my Wushu main study for 30 years or since 1969.

Da Tong Bei, Zhou Ba Gua; Ruo Tai Ji. ain't that a motto.

Tong Bei has to move in all directions. I called it the ultralong boxing in my books.

[Oso]

Brad, I'm afraid I didn't get to see it. I ended up judging, coaching or fighting the entire tournament and the tai chi peeps were on the far side of the gym in the corner...where all good tai chi people should be.:D

The guy that was supposed to demo it lives and teaches here where I am. I've obligated myself to showing up at the 'world tai chi day' event downtown later this month so I expect I'll see it there.


btw, the tongbei site delibandit posted is very good and a large amount of the text/information is the same as the article or vice versa.

[SPJ]

Tong Bei is not obscure. It reriches its contents thruout times since the warring state periods. It is widely practiced thruout northern China. It is most popular in Beijing and Taipei, Taiwan. You go to the parks in both capitals. you would see tons of people including my teachers and me pracitcing every morning. Now that I moved to US, you go to China Town or parks nearby, You see people practice Tong Bei, Tai Ji, Ba Gua, Mantis on and on.

Tong Bei summarized a lot of rules or apps or the methods of all long boxing. It is a must study for CMA. Actually, you have to study long boxing and Tong Bei before Tai Ji or Ba Gua.

The most recent update of Tong Bei including Suai Jiao and Tai Ji cloudy hands. It is called Tai Ji Five elements Tong Bei. It is very popular, now.

There are 4 technical cateories of CMA.
Hittings (punch and kicks, Da and Ti)
Throwing (Suai)
Tripping to fall (Dei)
Grappling (Qin and Na)

Classical Tong Bei is hitting for long range
Suai Jiao (close or near combat)
Tai Ji hands (Qin and Na)
So that the updated Tong Bei is a complete fighting system for 4 technical categories and with long, mid and short and close range combat.

There are also tons of people in China Town practicing Tong Bei every monring including me.

I do not agreed that Tong Bei is obscure and only few people know about it in US.