JAMA: Tongbei article [Archive] - Kung Fu Magazine Forums

mantis108

03-18-2004, 01:21 PM

Well, lesson number one - don't live in the north or any small remote town or you will miss out on all the good stuff such as the JAMA!

Seriously, if anyone has a copy of the Tongbei article and can spare one, please let me know. I would love to read it.

I could believe I missed the links that you posted Oso. They are such great informative threads. Thank you.

Regarding the first link:

Seung Ga Faat wrote:

18 Styles information ; Tongbei Quan
Tongbei Quan or back-through boxing, also called Tongbi Quan or arm-through boxing, is one of the popular schools in north China.

RE: There is about 3 characters used for the Bei/Bi sound. Because of that there are 3 different explanations available.

1. Through the arms (Tongbi) - this could be the most ancient and IMHO the correct one. Most of the ancient texts regarding hand to hand combat used this.

2. Through the back (Tongbei) - this is popular one and is used in CMA literature today.

3. Thoroughly prepare (Tongbei) - this rarer as compare to the other 2 but it is used as well.

Due to it's long history, it boasts a variety of names in different places, such as the Wuxing (5 elements), six combinations, five-monkey, axe-hitch and the Shaolin. Although there are different names, the different styles of Tongbei Quan are all based on the same boxing theory and have the same origin.

RM: I am of the opinion that Tongbi/Tongbei was Pigua type of style. In fact, so people like Ma Xianda would say Pigua is the core of the Tongbi.

I think the difference between Tongbi and Tongbei is more or less a "LINEAGE" thing. This applies to all other names that are listed above.

This basically goes to say that Tongbi/Tongbei (TB for short) is an acient system of fighting using round chopping, swinging and smashing type of motions as oppose to Changquan that is more straight-line, bold, open, etc... TB would seem close to gross movements of primates; while, Changquan is definitely capitialize on fine motor skills that is characteristic of human. In a sense it's "natural" way (kind of Taoism like) and the "unnatural" way (kind of confucious like).

Both TB and Changquan were popular around the Yellow River region.

the major schools and styles of Tongbei Quan are as follows:
1.In 1937 Wu Tianxu wrote in his book Tongbei Quanshu that this school of boxing had been called the back-through which was changed to the white ape school and long-armed ape school.Qing Dynasty practitioners called it traveling, traveling boxing or Chang Quan.

I think this refers to the most popular style or "surviving lineage" of Tongbi.

2.Some say that Tongbei Quan was created in the 5 Dynasties (907-960)or in the Song Dynasty (960-1279).

RM: These dates could be messed up due to the fact that there were more than one Song dynasty. There was a Song dynasties during the 5 Dynasties period. Just like there were 2 Tong dynasties. If someone aren't clear on Chinese history (and there were/are plenty of them), this mess up could happen. This is part of the problem of oral traditions.

One theory is that it was created by Han Tong,recorded in some boxing literature as one of the 18 boxing masters of ancient times.

RM: Han Tong was frequantly mentioned, in "Shaolin Authentics". The passage "Summary of Hand Method", which mentioned him and possibly his techniques of 7 longs that are used "diagonally", is quite insightful. Also it is possible to use those in a crowed situation (close quartered) as suggested by the passage. In that case, it would be frontal.

Another proposition says that it was created by Chen Tuan in the early Song Dynasty and in the middle of the Qing Dynasty Lu Yunqing taught it to Qi Taichang. In his book Wushu Theory, Xu Yusheng wrote that Chen Tuan, also called Chen Tu'nan, lived in seclusion in Mount Hua during the 5 Dynasties.
He could sleep for 100 days without getting up. Emperor Taizong of the Song Dynasty conferred a designation of Dr Xiyi on him. Chen was said to have created 12 sitting exercises.

This is the "surviving lineage" as I would call it. It is also know as Tongbei XinYuan (through the back heart ape). BTW, heart could be mind in Chinese thinking.

3.Huang Zongxi, a well-known scholar of the Ming Dynasty (1368-1644), wrote in his Essay of Southern
Thunderbolts, that Tongbei Quan was the best among all boxing schools.

I think I know which text it is refering to. I believe the character used in that particualr text was Through Arms (Tongbi) not Through back (Tongbei).

Later, Huang Baijia in his biography of Dr Wang Zhengnan said that Tongbei Quan is Chang Quan or long-range boxing.The arm-through boxing can thus be said to have been popular in the Ming Dynasty.

RM: I am of the opinion that it is highly possible that Changquan was a term came about Song dynasty (960 - 1279 CE). It became a synonym of hand to hand combat posing to replace the term Tongbi. In a microscopic scale it is a style replacing style thing. On a marcoscopic scale it is rationalism in Chinese thoughts replacing Naturalistic thoughts. This simple change of terms is IMHO momentous in TCMA history because it herolded in the dawn of a new paradign - southern Shaolin foundation.

4.According to the boxing chronicles by Xiu Jianchi (1931), Qi Xin of Zhejiang went to teach the back-through boxing at Gu'an in Hebei Province in the middle and latter half of the of the Qing Dynasty. His style was then called Qi-style boxing which was later named as Tongbei or back-through boxing. Qi's son, Qi Taichang improved and developed the boxing techniques. People then divided Tongbei Quan into an old style( the father) and a new one (the son ).

RM: I am still working on this part. So I would reserve my comments.

The old style emphasizes simplicity and power whereas the new style concentrates on exquisitenesss and suppleness.
Originally Tongbei did not refer to a school of boxing but a way of excercise. "Tong" (through) means to pass through and reach, "Bei" (back) means
the human back.When the excercises are done, power is generated from the back to pass through the shoulders and then reach the arms. In this way, heavy blows can be delivered at the arm's length to control the opponent. Tongbei Quan emphasizes the combination of inner core and outward application. Back-through boxing takes the 5 elements of traditional Chinese philosophy as its basic theory.

RM: There are quite a bit of debate on the 5 elements and such things among the Tongbei practitioners. Some say yes and some say no. So it is hard to figure out who is correct.

I think we will need another post for that.

Source: Essentials of Chinese Wushu by
Wu Bin,Li Xingdong & Yu Gongbao

Mantis108