What I should practice everyday?

[mossman]

Hello. I have been only doing Wing Chun for about 3months and I was wondering, what kind of practice schedule I should have? I need something that I can do everyday. I need it to help me technicially and I want to be conditioned. So I guess what I'm asking for is a Wing Chun workout that last for about 2 hours. I have not learned the 2nd form yet. What kind of things should I be doing? Thanks.

[Phil Redmond]

At minumum practice SLT/SNT. Do WC punches and kicks. Pick a few drills like pak da, gan da, etc. (do them in the air if you don't have a partner). Find a heavy bag to strike and kick so you'll learn how to issue force. There's lots more I know others here will add to help you with as well.

[mossman]

#1 - The first form

I've heard of different ways of practicing it. Should I do it relaxed, then do it while every muscle is tight? And what about doing it on one leg? <--How much should my knees be bent ?(both legs)

#2 - Punches/Kicks

So I can practice centerline punching. Should I do chain punching as well? How many punches should be in my attack? Do chain punching slow first then fast then with stepping?

I've only been really taught one kick so far. Should I do it against a tree or something?

#3 - Drills

#4 - Heavy Bag

Unfortunatly I don't have a punching bag or anything. I've heard of taking a mattress and putting it against a wall?? Or does anyone else have any substitutes?

Practice Long Punching, Short punching (inch punch).

Also...

A guy in my class was taking about how he strengthened his wrist. He said to buy an iron rod at like Home Depot and hold it while moving my wrist back and forth???

Pushups: Right now I'm doing just regular pushups. Should I do them on my knuckles as well? What part of the knuckles should I do them on? All 4 or just the first 2?

Thanks a lot guys!

[anerlich]

First form

Do it fairly relaxed, pay attention to your posture and breathing. Be strict regarding the various hand shapes and their execution. Knee bend is lineage specific, ask your instructor.

Punches/kicks

You can do all the things you mentioned for punching.

You don't need to kick trees. Kick in the air, and kick a bag. Kick at small targets for accuracy. Remember the kick doesn't finish when you hit the target, but when you put your foot back on the floor. Keep your balance.

I've not tried the mattress myself. It might work - secure it somehow so you don't have to keep picking it up. Might even be better to roll it into a cylinder, prop it up against a wall and kick that. Don't be afraid to experiment with home equipment, you can have a lot of fun.

The rod idea is OK. You could just as easily use a dumbell with weights on one end only, or a hammer or mallet. A strong grip is a real asset (though the bar strengthens the wrist and forearm rather than the grip, though it will do some good for the latter too).

You can do pushups on your fists, though treat it as a wrist strengthening exercise rather than trying to build up callouses and the like. The WC punch (and Jack Dempsey's boxing punch) normally hits with the bottom 3 knuckles. However, by practicing on a padded surface and rocking along the knuckles from the index to little finger, you can work your wrist through a good range of motion.

[sticky fingers]

You can practice chain punches and condition your arms with a wall bag.
This can be easily made by a small canvas bag filled with sand. Mounting it can be a problem though. I mounted mine by simply tying a rope to a staircase rail with the bag resting against the staircase pillar. Works perfectly, costs next to nothing to make.

[quiet man]

Originally posted by mossman
I have been only doing Wing Chun for about 3months - - - - - I have not learned the 2nd form yet.

Well, duh :D ;) ...


I think it would be interesting to hear what each of us includes in hers/his daily routine.
My everyday training (at home) goes something like this:

SLT (both as a whole and broken down)
Chain punching
Chain kicking (jing gerk + waang gerk)
Horse stance
Stretching

+ various other things, but that is the core.
Unfortunately, I don't have a wallbag, but if I had one, I would definitely include wallbag training.

[Phenix]

1, holistic body (spine, limbs...neoro, breath...muscles) conditioning
2, practicing awareness, resultant force balancing, energy issuing with SLT
3, practicing special conditioning --awareness, resultant force balancing, energy issuing with different sets including woodern dummy, chi sau.
4, natural lively no pre-set conditioning, chi sau.
5, sparing
6, live testing the issue power and power neutralization with parner and test apparatus.

[foolinthedeck]

i like phenix' workout.
i do that too.

practice nothing evryday too

[Gangsterfist]

1) stretch, warm up, loosen up muscle tension

2) relax, breathe, build up chi, release tension, build the spirit

3) Do all the forms you know starting with the first. Infact practice the first form a few times.

4) Spirit boxing (shadow boxing), drills, two man forms if possible, chi sao if you got a partner

5) Cool down stretch and relax

[Vash]

Karate. :eek: :o :D

[Phil Redmond]

Originally posted by Vash
Karate. :eek: :o :D
But Eizo told me not to go to Tatsuo's class. ;)
(Camp Hanson Okinawa 1966 )
P.S. I watched anyway and didn't like it.

[Mr Punch]

Well, my car needs waxing, and there's that old fence round my bonsai shop that needs painting...


Chain kicking (jing gerk + waang gerk)I can't get any power into my waang... :( :o

er, hi Quiet Man, what's waang gerk?

And Gangsterfist, how do you
build the spirit?
I seem to have been building mine for 32 years and sometimes (often) it just doesn't seem quite finished...


In answer, SLT, some drills with footwork (start with simple single steps into back weighted stance, maybe kick as you go, focusing on root AND fluidity, maybe sidesteps to various angles, and changing the angles of your SLT moves) from SLT, some more SLT, some 'shadow boxing' from SLT... er that should be enough to be going with. Of course, wallbag if you got one, two-step drills and chisao, and in fact all of what Phenix said if you have a partner.

Every other day try something a bit different: SLT with your back against a wall, SLT on one leg, SLT with an egg between your knees, SLT on your back, SLT moving from horse stance to back weighted stance to neutral stance ( :eek: )...

[quiet man]

I can't get any power into my waang...

If you relax your hand, you can get a lot more power :D
Oh, and try lowering your stance.


er, hi Quiet Man, what's waang gerk?

Hi yourself, Mat, always nice to hear from you. :)
Er... a side kick? ;)

[reneritchie]

What you train and how depends on your level and your goal.

SLT can be one way to train several things. How you do it shouldn't be written in stone but should evolve as your training evolves. If you need to work on relaxation, do it relaxed and work on maintaining relaxation throughout the set. Do it slowly, keep your breathing deep and use the minum tension necessary to get through the moves, always trying for less and less. When you are relaxed, start to pick up the pace and maintain the relaxation. When you can do it fast as relaxed as slow, move on to another focus.

If you need to work on positioning, concentrate on that. Make sure each movement is precisely placed not just at the beginning and end, but throughout its path.

Etc.

[KingMonkey]

For some good bodyweight routines see this site.

http://www.trainforstrength.com/workouts.shtml

Also here is a punching workout I used to do.

1) Punch on wall bag until just before knuckles start to bleed.
(If you have this mounted on an unyielding surface start very light)

2) Alternate 100 chain punches in the air (go relatively slowly to start with to ensure good form. Also dont go for these 100% probably about 80% speed is better to avoid elbow damage) with 10 push ups.
Work up to 10 sets ie 1000 punches and 100 push ups.

Also include some stretching as part of your daily workout. Lots of people dont know how to stretch so do some research.
A big no no for example is stretching at the start of a workout before warming up the muscles.

[Gangsterfist]

You can view it as unification of the mind, body, and soul. I am not super religious so I use the word spirit.

Spirit is very important in martial arts IMO. Its your intent, and your energy towards your goal. When you spirit box you should imagine opponets coming at you in a very serious manner. A strong spirit will focus at the matter at hand and not be distracted by things off in the distance. Spirit can also be seen as intent, confidence, emotion (or emtionless, like controlling your emotion), and execution. A strong spirit will not break from intimidation.

I once had a really big guy (well bigger than me at least) get in my face. I simply did not put up with any of his trouble and put a guard up. I did not say anthing and my spirit was totally intuned with his motions. He saw how serious I was and laughed it off and walked away. Some may view that as a victory on my behalf. Spirit is something that can be a great assest.

A broken, or weak spirit can be viewed as: lack of confidence, shyness, someone who is meek, and negative.

This is just how I see it. Its an idea I have developed from my training.

[Keng Geng]

I think the best regimen is to pick one thing feel you need to work on, and work on it for the full 2 hours. One doesn't need variety when one is working at an exercise will complete awareness. It's when one gets lazy and goes through the motions that a need for variety is felt.

As for which exercises, just don't forget footwork. Footwork is the #1 neglected aspect to exercise.

[Mr Punch]

I don't agree.

If I practise SLT 5 times in a morning, for example, diligently, and with full concentration and relaxation, then I take some of the moves from slt and practise them again with some footwork, on a dummy, on my partners, shadow boxing, on a heavy bag, with a wallbag, with padwork, diligently and with full relaxation and concentration... does that mean I have lost my focus? Going through the motions? Lazy?

Even for a beginner, if you make sure in class that your basic postures, footwork and forms are correct, you then need to bring it alive yourself through experimentation.

[quiet man]

Never mind about that - you didn't know what a waang gerk is! :p
And you call yourself a wing chun practitioner!

Hang down your head in shame! :D ;)

[Mr Punch]

grrr :mad:

I know what a side kick is though!

:D

[Nick Forrer]

I take some of the moves from slt and practise them again with some footwork,

(you would then be doing chum kiu and not SLT- or at least chum kiu is SLT except with footwork)

on a dummy

(you would then be doing the dummy form- again same caveat applies)

on my partners

(you would then be doing Chi sau)

My view- its very important to build the correct foundation first because tall house built on weak foundations collapse easily- many people rush through SLT and Dan chi sau to get to 'the fighting' but then have to revisit SLT and dan chi sau later once they reach a plateau and have found their chi sau 'tricks' will only take them so far in a real fight.

SLT has some ingenious but unobvious conditioning stretching and energy cultivation excercies built into it and is negelected to the detriment of your wing chun. Even now after six years of WC my Instructor still corrects aspects of my SLT. My advice? As a beginner just do SLT over and over and over. You may not appreciate it now but you wont regret it later.

regards
Nick

[Mr Punch]

Thank you Nick. I was arguing against the specific case above my post, namely this statement:

keng gengOne doesn't need variety when one is working at an exercise will complete awareness. It's when one gets lazy and goes through the motions that a need for variety is felt.
which I disagree with. I wasn't advising the poster to do these things.

This was my advice:
Even for a beginner, if you make sure in class that your basic postures, footwork and forms are correct, you then need to bring it alive yourself through experimentation.The first part of the sentence is what you yourself suggested. The bringing it alive part, is suggesting that in the privavcy of his own home, where he is practising slt more, the basic form and footwork more, etc, that he should try, for example, leaning back a little, leaning forward a little, sinking down further, etc, to see what effect this has on his body, and to se if he understands why these positions are used: if not he should check again with hhis sifu that his positions are correct.

Another vital part of bringing it alive is chi sau, partner drills, anything that gets you interacting with another live person; their bodyweight, their movement, it's effect on your body. And while I agree with you that slt is vitally important, and should be concentrated on, shown, watched and corrected, and done ad infinitum, I also think that it is vital to start on two-person drills/chi sao etc, not to mention turning drills etc (eg basic tan da, lap sao, pak da etc) ASAP. This is fighting skill. Not just solo movement.

I don't believe the devil is in the details, as in a quarter of inch of positioning of your hand in slt. I do believe the devil is in the details as in a quarter of an inch between a light punch to your head, and a potentially debilitating punch to your head, and as soon as WCers stop ****ing about with physics and hit each other the better! (HALF joking! - the only way you can find out if your half an inch leeway in slt is gonna work every time ( :rolleyes: ) or at least when, is by practising with other people trying to nail you.)

BTW, chum kiu is NOT slt with footwork, they have some different moves and some different principles.

Slt on a dummy is NOT dummy form. And in the absence of live partners, anything that gets you HITTING SOMETHING with your lovely, perfectly calibrated slt moves is fine by me. The dummy can be very useful for basics way before the dummy form.

There are many ways of practising slt techniques and energies on people apart from chi sao.

I agree with you about always going back to SLT... in fact never leaving it. Occasional correction after six years is maybe OK, but if it's too often... you're not actually very good...!!! :D After six years your slt should be developing, it should be a different animal to the one you started with.

Chi sao 'tricks' will not get you far in a fight, and slt is very very important, both agreed. But unless you practise hitting people and getting hit pretty often and soon, not to mention delinking, realistic first contact and confrontation distances (rather than the **** you see everywhere of somebody coming in with a three-step approach and one haymaker!) etc etc, ANY chi sao or slt you do is gonna get your clock wiped.

Of course, my opinion, no offence meant. YMMV.

[Nick Forrer]

Hi mat

'BTW, chum kiu is NOT slt with footwork, they have some different moves and some different principles.'

Of course they are different- otherwise we would just have two different names for the same thing! I meant more that the hand actions in relation to your upper body are the same. For example bong in Slt is or should be exactly the same (in terms of wrist elbow shoulder and torso alignment) as the bong in the first sec of chum kiu- only that in CK it is combined with a turn- thus enabling you to use it to divert incoming force away from your centre of gravity, as well as establish a new line of attack with your rear hand.

One way to think about SLT is as a refrence book. If you ever want to know if you have perfomed an action correctly in chi sau/sparring/wahtever turn back to YGKYM and see if it is the same as SLT. However this does presuppose that your SLT is correct in the first place!

Its true that the concepts and thinking in Ck are different from SLT. CK acknowledges the reality of a moving resisting opponent- and teaches you to chase, shift and square up accordingly- but it also lays the foundation for the dummy- in the way that SLT lays the foundation for CK. Moving on to one before the other is correct is counter productive and will only mean you will have to go back to it later (of course there is always room for more tweaking at a later date as I have said). I myself didnt really appreciate the importance of this until I began training with my current instructor who is very particular about how each action should be performed just as his Sifu (WSL) was very particular about how each action should be performed.

There are loads of people at my school who have done WC elsewhere (one guy for 15 years) who have had to start almost from scratch because what they have been taught was wrong to begin with but by accumulating a lot of chi say 'tricks' which bear little relation to their actual forms they had fooled themselves into thinking they were good! Needless to say when they came across the real thing (which really is nothing more than the result of having laid the correct foundation) they were amazed at the difference- I know because I was one such person!

In my view the article 'path to wing chun' by Ray Van Ramsdonk lays this out very well.

regards
Nick

[Phenix]

http://www.yogasite.com/images/art-chakraposter.jpg

[foolinthedeck]

so why isit that practicing slt etc every day is such a good thing, when practicing weights everyday is such a bad thing? doesnt the body need time to rest in between wing chun too?

[old jong]

Practicing SLT should not make you tired in the first place.;)

[anerlich]

so why isit that practicing slt etc every day is such a good thing, when practicing weights everyday is such a bad thing? doesnt the body need time to rest in between wing chun too?

Forms and other skill training primarily work the nervous system, and do not tax the body to the same degree that weight training or endurance training do. The need for rest and for the body to recover is not the same.

While nervous innervation is a factor in strength, the two types of activity make vastly different demands on the organism.

You CAN overdo skill training - it is better to stop skill training before one gets tired, so that one does not compensate by using different muscles in place of the proper/fatigued ones, and substituting gross movements for fine ones. You can use movements you have learned thoroughly for endurance or determination/mental purposes later, but not while you are still learning the motor skills. Though of you can do the skill over and over for hours without getting fatigued, there is no reason not to other than sheer boredom or having other responsibilities in your life.

So endurance and strength training are best performed after skill training.

Both Emin Boztepe and Ken Chung are advocates for the "one movement for hours" approach. There are worse role models.

[PaulH]

This might be interesting to you.

A young and rather boastful champion challenged a Zen master who was renowned for his skill as an archer. The young man demonstrated remarkable technical proficiency when he hit a distant bull's eye on his first try, and then split that arrow with his second shot. "There," he said to the old man, "see if you can match that!" Undisturbed, the master did not draw his bow, but rather motioned for the young archer to follow him up the mountain. Curious about the old fellow's intentions, the champion followed him high into the mountain until they reached a deep chasm spanned by a rather flimsy and shaky log. Calmly stepping out onto the middle of the unsteady and certainly perilous bridge, the old master picked a far away tree as a target, drew his bow, and fired a clean, direct hit. "Now it is your turn," he said as he gracefully stepped back onto the safe ground. Staring with terror into the seemingly bottomless and beckoning abyss, the young man could not force himself to step out onto the log, no less shoot at a target. "You have much skill with your bow," the master said, sensing his challenger's predicament, "but you have little skill with the mind that lets loose the shot."

[Phenix]

Zen story is great.

But, when it comes to martial art.
Try this and see it from the real expert's eyes.

http://www.kyokushinmail.com/koya/letters/letter14.htm


------------
Ofcorse I never stop doing Kyokushin. :D

[PaulH]

That will do! When you get to the staircase's top, just make sure you hand over all your scrolls to me before you are burned again. =)

[Ernie]

[[I wish to see you fight against a bull. I wish to see at least one person who can bring the bull down with one strike. It is my dream for a long time. You have to accomplish this before when you reach 30. So for you, you have 15 more years to go. ]]

because as you all know bulls are our deadly foes and even now in the grass lands all over the world they are planning the demise of the human race

oh you doubt the great words of master blah blah the insane prophet

it has all ready begun , watch out for the mad cow brewwwhhaahahhahhaa]]]]]]]


so little boys and girls make sure you master you bull s hit killing fist :D

[PaulH]

What do you know? Come to think of it... Mine! what round eyes you have, Ernie! Ha! Ha! Me? I would rather facing the bull with a naked sword and a red caper. 0\_

[Ernie]

sooooo muuuccchhh buuuulllllllllll :D

i mean i have smacked around a few big dumb animals , but at least they walked on to feet and had a choice :D

there are alot of sick demented f ucks in this world and people call them heros go figure

reminds me of that saying '' boards don't hit back ''

you want to impress me go head butt a rhino

hey that means those guys that clubbed baby seals to death must have had awsome martial art skills

i'm going to practice my puppy kicking skills all week :D

[Gangsterfist]

My sensei's, sensei's, sensei (I have no idea the japanese word for grand master, sorry) was one of the last bushi warriors in the ryukyu islands. He had heard of many people fighting bulls and beating them. This really perked his curiostity. How could a man beat a bull unarmed, he pondered? He did not think it was possible. He decided to test the waters, and hit a bull in a controlled enviroment. He found a farmer who was willing to let him strike a bull, as long as he compensated for his loss. He had the bull tossed in a pen, so he could escape easily if needed. He squared up and focused on the bull and readied himself for the strike. He struck the bull in the head and nothing happened. He then struck him in the ribs, and then the neck. No matter where he hit the bull nothing effected it. It just made the bull really angry. He gave up after hitting the bull 4 or 5 times. The bull wasn't even really hurt, possibly some cracked ribs but thats all.

He later did more and more research of these so called karate masters who killed bulls while being unarmed. He later found out that there were a few documented cases of this happening. There was one constant. The attacker would strike the horn of the bull and knock it off the bulls head. Since there are tons of main arteries and vessels in the horn the bulls bled to death, and fairly quickly from what I understand. This is how the story was told to me by my old sensei when I took karate years ago. I met my teachers sensei at a few tournaments. He was from Okinawa and a very very very good martial artist, but never tried to fight a bull because of what his sensei did.

So basically that is where the myth of the karate master fighting the bull comes from. That is my perception of the actual stories I have heard.

[PaulH]

I don't necessarily discount these unusual stories at all for every nations seem to have many variations of this kind of fantastic feat. Sampson the earliest man ever recorded in biblical account ripped a lion in half barehanded and killed hundreds of Phillistines in one lone battle for instance. But we drift from the topic at hand, Kung Fu should be more about fighting skills and less on special power or abilities.

Regards,
PH

[yuanfen]

Oyama's stories grow via the broken telephone. Originally, it was breaking off the horn.

As a kid I grew up around a lot of water buffaloes---punched some of them without hurting them.

Fess up on my values--- I am always for the bull aginst the showman or the bullfighter. Human arrogance,,,xx0%#!

For tigers too!

joy

[Ernie]

with you on that one joy

killing animals for the sake of who has the biggest ******

not to high on the respect chart



bad ju ju man

[PaulH]

Seems more of a morbid fascination on mortal combats to me than sheer human arrogance. We all share various degrees of curiousity on these death defying experiences.

P.S. What's a Ju Ju?

[anerlich]

From Dictionary.com

1. An object used as a fetish, a charm, or an amulet in West Africa.
2. The supernatural power ascribed to such an object.
3. A style of Nigerian popular music featuring electric guitars and traditional drums.

(I didn't know either, so I looked it up)

I've heard some of the most outrageous bulldust over the years - one guy even tried to convince me he knew of a "Karate Master" who killed two attack-trained Dobermans with Moe (of the three stooges) style double finger strikes to the eyes. I just rolled my eyes at his gullibility.

I had an old "What is Karate" Kyokushin book which shows Oyama killing the bull. He broke off its horn. Not a large bull and by some accounts old and/or infirm. Certainly not a Texas Longhorn or Brahman, more like the little ones the rodeo guys wrestle to the ground.

Supposedly Oyama got slightly gored, which I am not too unhappy about. Apparently he admitted that it was mostly show rather than substance, and apparently it was not uncommon for the horns to be sawed partway through beforehand to make the breaks easier. All this is grain of salt stuff though.

I am not a vegetarian, but I see no need to make an animal suffer more than necessary, or worse to use its suffering as part of a "sport" or as a means of compensating for your feelings of inadequacy. Rodeo, where at least it is a bit more like a fair contest and the animals are not intentionally hurt for the sake of sport, is not so bad.

[anerlich]

This may make some of you feel a bit better about the Oyama/bull stuff.

My wife just sent it to me (hopefully there's no subtext there!)

[Keng Geng]

Originally posted by Nick Forrer
If you ever want to know if you have perfomed an action correctly in chi sau/sparring/wahtever turn back to YGKYM and see if it is the same as SLT. However this does presuppose that your SLT is correct in the first place!
This seems to make sense, but this type of logic is what has diminished Wing Chun to a minimalist void that is sold as a complicated mystery needing to be solved.

The techniques as you see them in SLT are not necessarily the same as in the other forms. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that, assuming your SLT techniques are correct, if your chum kiu techniques look the same, then your chum kiu is wrong.

[Keng Geng]

Originally posted by Mat
does that mean I have lost my focus? Going through the motions? Lazy? Lazy physically, no. Lazy minded, yes.

[Nick Forrer]

'The techniques as you see them in SLT are not necessarily the same as in the other forms.'

What would be the point of learning them that way in the first place then? Seems strange to practice tan, bong, pak, jut, huen etc one way only to have to relearn them a different way at a later date. Of course it is true that CK, BG, Dummy add further movements/concepts etc. to these core actions (like turning, stepping, recovering etc.) but they are still the same core actions.

'In fact, I'd go so far as to say that, assuming your SLT techniques are correct, if your chum kiu techniques look the same, then your chum kiu is wrong.'

You could say that but then the error would lie with you.

[kj]

Originally posted by Keng Geng
The techniques as you see them in SLT are not necessarily the same as in the other forms. In fact, I'd go so far as to say that, assuming your SLT techniques are correct, if your chum kiu techniques look the same, then your chum kiu is wrong.

I wouldn't balk as quickly. I can understand the objection if viewing SNT or the other forms as a sequence of techniques. If considering the first set as a mother of motions, and similarly all the sets as teachers of concepts and fundamental means of motion, then I believe Nick was dead on. It is indeed regretful that some find the notion too mysterious, as you say.

FWIW, I believe the author of the thread also said they haven't learned Chum Kiu yet.

Regards,
- Kathy Jo

[Keng Geng]

Originally posted by Nick Forrer
'The techniques as you see them in SLT are not necessarily the same as in the other forms.'

What would be the point of learning them that way in the first place then? Seems strange to practice tan, bong, pak, jut, huen etc one way only to have to relearn them a different way at a later date. Therein lies the key to Wing Chun. If you need help pose the same question to grandmasters of other martial arts. You'll find out that the techniques as you first learn them, do not stay the same.

[Nick Forrer]

Well given that that is the way my instructor teaches it, that is the way WSL taught him, and that is the way I have found it work for myself something must be amiss.

'If you need help pose the same question to grandmasters of other martial arts.'

Yes an Aikido GM will have more to teach me about WC then WSL. :rolleyes:

[Phenix]

Originally posted by Ernie
[[I wish to see you fight against a bull. I wish to see at least one person who can bring the bull down with one strike. It is my dream for a long time. You have to accomplish this before when you reach 30. So for you, you have 15 more years to go. ]]





It is more important then winning. It is about investigation of how far one can strecth one's inertial..... It is not a show about man vesus or killing bulls. .. -Mas Oyama

[Ernie]

tell that to the dead bull

[PaulH]

I'm sure the bull realized by now that he should had run. He lost his bet and his life is forfeited. Who is the real bull? I'm sure the story would be slightly different if the antagonizer is a tiger instead. You can find traces of this practice in the Indian rites of passage. Any good injun boys would thank dead brother bears or buffaloes at the completion of their quests. Mas O certainly would have paid his dues to his fallen bull as any true Samurai would. =)

[Ernie]

if it looks like bulls hit smells like bulls hit
must be bulls hit:D

[PaulH]

Ha! Ha! I dunno...I have a dear friend who told me that the day he buried his mother is the very same day that he felt for the first time that he becomes an old man. The realization of death often is a cataclyst or rite of passage to one's new phase of life.

Regards,
PH

[Phenix]

I guess you guys must be having a better training then
Shokei Matsui, Michael Thompson, and Andy Hug.

By hitting woodern Dummy as you like it which cant move at all :D

[Ernie]

guess you guys must be having a better training then
Shokei Matsui, Michael Thompson, and Andy Hug

dude
hitting a bull is just as stupid as breaking brick , just plain stupid
a bull is not a man
best to focus on the man and leave parlor tricks and acts of stupiity out


good lord hendrick can't believe you of all people would buy that crap

[Phenix]

Originally posted by Ernie
hitting a bull is just as stupid as breaking brick , just plain stupid
a bull is not a man
best to focus on the man and leave parlor tricks and acts of stupiity out ..


Yeah,
Hitting a dead wooden dummy is the best training in the world. btw, those secret move works great with anything not moving.
and a wooden dummy is different then brick because it is wood. so hitting brick is stupid and hitting wood is smart.

And remember cant break that wood too, wood is for caresing....( no wonder all these people get take down to ground):D

[Ernie]

Yeah,
Hitting a dead wooden dummy is the best training in the world. btw, those secret move works great with anything not moving.
and a wooden dummy is different then brick because it is wood. so hitting brick is stupid and hitting wood is smart.

And remember cant break that wood too, wood is for caresing....( no wonder all these people get take down to ground)



yep
but there is a large difference between a training device and kiiling an animal to prove how big your balls are :D

if your planning on fighting hmm i don't know humans perhaps you should train with them
or is that to complicated :D

now i am going to go out side and step on some ants to prove my skill and in 100 years my students can say i killed 100 in one blow

to steal from others --- reality just called and it would like every one to come back to it -----:D

[Gangsterfist]

That is a good question, what should you practice everyday?

How about practice using the mind, a lot of wing chunners forget to use their brain half the time.

[Phenix]

Originally posted by Ernie




now i am going to go out side and step on some ants to prove my skill and in 100 years my students can say i killed 100 in one blow




Killing to gain one's status is bad


"For her trip to the Arakansas farm in The Simple Life, Paris is bringing racks of designer clothes and swears she won’t kill anything, even a chicken."

http://www.maximonline.com/girls_of_maxim/html/girl_998.html


she won’t kill anything, even a chicken.
Training with Paris Hilton is better to show your kungfu 100years later. Your great grand student will certainly love it too :D

[Ernie]

sorry bro the chick is sick she needs a permenant iv stuck in her arm and extreme make over and about 50 super size happy meals to put some meat on her bone

i can here the rattle when you walks

i ran into her awhile back in universal city and she looked like a starved bird it was just sick

now go out and kill a bull with your secret emie jing :)

[PaulH]

Just for fun, I find Mas O's bullfight very Tai Chi (Ultimate Extreme - or extremely yang and yin). His killing blow is somewhat like the TC ward off move where Chang San Feng commented that it should be done with extreme Yang to break and send the force back into the attacker.

Regards,
PH

[Ernie]

god lord he is braking off a bulld horn and killing it stop trying to turn it into a romance novel

[PaulH]

You must be born in the year of the Ox, Ernie! Ha! Ha!

[Ernie]

nah
i just live in the here and the now

[Gangsterfist]

I'm sure the bull realized by now that he should had run. He lost his bet and his life is forfeited. Who is the real bull? I'm sure the story would be slightly different if the antagonizer is a tiger instead. You can find traces of this practice in the Indian rites of passage. Any good injun boys would thank dead brother bears or buffaloes at the completion of their quests. Mas O certainly would have paid his dues to his fallen bull as any true Samurai would. =)

Paul-

At first I thought the act to be completely barbaric and destructive. To kill a bull to prove a point. I never thought of it as seeking a new path in life from experiencing death, or for it to be some rite of passage as you put it. Even though I may not agree with that, I can see that point of view now. Just wanted you to know you made me think in a different view, and I appreciate that.

GF

[PaulH]

I'm grateful for your kind consideration. =)