Is bouncing a prime situation.... [Archive]

Gangsterfist

03-22-2004, 07:17 AM

I seriously doubt it. A couple of my kung fu brothers are bouncers at a bar. There are so many rules and regulations you have to follow when kicking someone out, not to mention laws as well.

The most you might benefit from practicing martial arts is maybe chin na practice. If you every use too much force though, you might lose your job and possibly be sued.

Depending on the club and the people you may or may not want to use force either. I know that my kung fu brother kicked someone out and they came back with 5 friends at closing time to try and fight him. So, good luck with your bouncing.

CaptinPickAxe

03-22-2004, 07:36 AM

yeah. I can see that happening.

But if your struck first do you have the right to retaliate? Keep in mind, I'm not talking about putting the kid in a hospital, just using enough force to knock him unconcious.

Gangsterfist

03-22-2004, 08:11 AM

From what they tell me if someone gets physically violent with you, such as kicking punching, bitting and scratching etc., you may use excessive force to remove them from the property.

I think the biggest thing is when their friends argue about the guy getting kicked out.

My kung fu brother was working during the summer so their deck was open. Some drunk guy peed off the side of the deck and then threw his empty bottle of beer in the parking lot and nearly hit someone. Obviously this guy was wasted. He then had to remove this guy from the property. He was too drunk to drive so they had to take his keys and he would not give them up. He then argued that he was a regular and spent lots of money there and then his friends started arguing the same thing. It got into a pretty heated argument. My kung fu brother got him to leave but could not use force because the guy never swung at him. Now if he tried to get violent with anyone he could have used excessive force.

The thing is he works pretty much at a yuppie bar and has to throw out kids who always say that their dad is a lawyer or a doctor or so and so. So pretty much if you get in their face they immediately back down, or just talk a lot of $hit.

However, I think it varies from state to state about self defense laws. The minute the guy makes contact with you, you can hit back in self defense. I would just talk with your boss about what is considered kosher and not kosher to do. Some places I know tell the bouncers to use force and others say to let them be and call the police.

dimmakseminar

03-22-2004, 03:41 PM

Dear CaptainPickAxe:

Depending on the watering hole; Yes. This could be excellent experience. You will get experience primarily in chin-na, neck holds, elbows and defensive moves. Be ready to get double teamed on occasion, deal with larger opponents, deal with irate girlfriends and get blind-sided. Watch your back at all times. Best of luck.

Sincerely,

dimmakseminar

CaptinPickAxe

03-22-2004, 04:09 PM

Thanks, DMS

I'm sure if I use my Cinnabar Palm, I'll have no problems:D

The Bouncing team is me, meatshake (maybe), and a shotokan karate practioner. It seems like a force to be reckoned with.

Toby

03-22-2004, 07:54 PM

I hear that a lot of bouncers get away with a lot of sneaky stuff. e.g. trip the punter then follow them to the ground pretending they pulled them down or they were reaching down to pull them back up and sneak in a few quick hooks and elbows to "subdue" the punter. Lots of that kind of stuff in our papers. Bouncers swear they just escorted the guy out, but the photos of the guy show black eyes, bloodied faces, etc. No witnesses. Works best in a thick crowd when the only witnesses are the people immediately around the altercation. Helps if those people are fellow bouncers. In a thin crowd obviously everyone can see what happens from more of a distance.

Good luck with it. Sounds like fun.

Vash

03-22-2004, 07:59 PM

At least you'll have some interesting stories to hook us up with.

Keep safe.

SanSoo Student

03-23-2004, 12:55 AM

What music do they play at that club? :D

CaptinPickAxe

03-23-2004, 07:55 AM

Drum & Bass

Losttrak

03-23-2004, 11:14 AM

Alot of the old bouncer guys I used to know, started bouncing to practice combat. I noticed alot of them became injured due to some of the contraints that are put on them (cant just go all our and kick some arse) and the fact that alot of the action is close-quarters and chaotic. Two of them had permenantly tweaked knees from getting rolled over or getting tangled in barstools, yada yada. I suppose its as close as we can get to legal street fighting... w/o going against professionals. But then again... if you want to learn how to fight, why not compete with true competitors not Jow Schmoe?

CaptinPickAxe

03-23-2004, 01:59 PM

I fight real competors when I spar in class. I don't fight a slew of joe shmoes at once. Its reality. Fighting in tournaments against one competor seems a little less realistic than having to watch your back and others backs in a club scene.

Losttrak

03-23-2004, 03:19 PM

You are true in that a tournament fight doesnt represent reality but permenant brain damage from a barstool over the head and half of your scalp hanging off from a jagged beer bottle raked down your head isnt a reality you prolly wanna taste either.

Plus, I mean if you were being paid well to risk life and limb, then you might be able to justify it. But if its just for $10/hr you might as well put forth that extra time in training and become a pro. If you want street scenarios, it would be wise to choose them yourself rather than have them chosen for you. Go to bars, wait for some dipshiyits to do something remotely rude or offensive and squash them like bugs... then make a break. Thats how alot of people blood themselves. If you do it often, and people begin to recognize you... you will have a lifetime of realistic street scenarios to look forward to.

CaptinPickAxe

03-23-2004, 04:11 PM

Look at it this way. Its a bunch of candy ass ravers. You treating it like I'm working at a neo-nazi biker bar. I figure the worst I'll have to deal with is carrying over-dosed pill-heads. The very worst being a scuffle between two druggies. The whole beer bottle thing is impossible seeing how its illegal to drink in the facility and the bar stool is out of the question. The only thing that can be broken over my head is a 300 pound couch, an amp stack, or the Dj. All of which, I seriously doubt.

BTW, what kind of person would I be going to bars looking for fights? I'll tell you what kind, a person who deserved to be stomped by a group of gangsters. Thats seems about as stupid as shooting yourself in the foot. And thats basically what I'd be doing. Your senario seems much more likely to "Have a broken bottle raked across my scalp" or "have brain damage because of the stool that was broken on my head." How can you even present those arguements then give me a suggestion like that?

On top of that, I'm looking to uphold the peace not bust skulls. I was just wondering how realistic of a situation it would be bouncing, and if you'd think I'd have a chance to use my moves. But thanks for your pessimistic views, anyways.

Losttrak

03-23-2004, 06:09 PM

I think you need to re-examine your motivations, personally. And frankly, I think you shouldnt discount the Devils Advocate just because it seems pessimistic. I just want to make sure you know the not-so-glamorous reality of the profession.

The last thing you will be do is rendering people unconscious. You have to understand liability in situations like a club. Serious incedents have ways of leaving a "stain" on places. Iguana Mirage in Dallas eventually closed after one serious incedent gave it a bad rep. The most you will be doing is restraining combattants physically while they flail away at each other. The only hitting will most likely be done TO you (accidental elbows, windmilling fists, etc) as you attempt to stop the fight rather than provoke.

... and for the record, a few of my good friends used to go to clubs for 2 reasons. Either to get laid or whoop someones ass. So dont think this is reserved for hicks and biker gangs. One guy was a day trader/former high school wrestler and the other guy a techie with a chip on his shoulder. My brother used to be a raver and he carried a tazer and brass knuckles whenever he went. lol Its when you think you are safe that you get knocked the f00k out.

Anyways, take the job if you like. I am sure the people on the forum would be interested to hear about your adventures, me included. I hope you do experience what you are looking for and not some of the extreme examples of what has happened but, admittedly, probably wont. Just be careful.

Ahh!! I just remembered another bounced story but I dont wanna make you change your mind. lol

CaptinPickAxe

03-24-2004, 12:59 AM

My brother used to be a raver and he carried a tazer and brass knuckles whenever he went.

Ah, here in lies the problem, my friend. If there was good security, those weapons would have never made it through the door. It sounds like you hang with a rough and rowdy crew. Personally, not the type of people I'd like drink with (Seeing how thier looking for fights and all.) As for the excessive force, I will never use more force than is need to assist the patron out of the club. I will have the eyes of the law on me at all times as 2 police officers will be on duty. I don't want assault on my record, regardless how much fun that might sound.

You can lay it on, seeing how I've already got the gig. It'll make good stories to tell at work.

Fred Sanford

03-24-2004, 02:59 AM

have fun. disagreements and stupid things are bound to happen when you get large numbers of people together in a club. remember not to take things personally and try not to make things personal when you have to throw people out.

as long as you use the minimum amount of force necessary to control a situation you should aight. if you do have to beat the crud out of someone be prepared to explain why it was necessary.

get to be good buddies with the cops who are on the duty at the club. be friendly to any and all law enforcement types who come by. the reasons should be obvious.

Mr Punch

03-24-2004, 05:44 AM

Yeah, it can be fun, but if you're doing your job properly you shouldn't be getting into too many rumbles. The most part is spotting the wankers as they come in and making sure they don't make it past the door.

The few fights you'll have to split up with ravers you should be able to stop just by sticking yourself in between, throwing them against opposite walls and looking menacing (speaking from my own scant experience in those kinds of clubs). It's more of a problem on te dance floor or a wide space cos there's no hard surface to take the wind out of them, just a bunch of quavers who are gonna get ****ed off by somebody being shoved into them.

The most trouble I've had was with people we'd slung out coming back at closing time and throwing bottles at the door, wanting a fight. By that time there was all of us together with nothing to do, so we just didn't open the door, and called the police.

A slightly bigger problem can be the psychos you're working with. One time I was working with a big loony who'd necked some speed and was basically looking for trouble (and very good at it). In fact, it was him we had to restrain when that gang came back chucking things around, cos he was all for steaming out there with his favourite half a pool cue.

You're working with Meatshake? Ex-shaolin-do? He's bound to want to prove himself to show he hasn't been wasting his time, take care man and watch your back!!! :D :p

CaptinPickAxe

03-24-2004, 12:38 PM

Thanks for the advice, friends. I'll be sure and watch my back.

brothernumber9

03-24-2004, 02:33 PM

careful if you guys use a big fogger. I was at a club in VA once, was dancing with a girl but not huggin on her or anything, and this drunk guy bumps right between us and stands there totally CB'ing me. Two of my buddies were kinda dance/sparring with each other a little to the side (and scaring people around them) the fogger came on full blast and no one could hardly see in front of them, so I popped the drunk idiot in front of me and scooted around and started dancing with the girl again, when the fog cleared I pretended nothing happened, the drunk dum dum assumed he got clocked by one of my buddies spar/dancing and didn't want no part of them so he walked away holding his jaw. bouncers never saw nothing, but that bama still busted my groove cuz I messed up my hand. The moral of the story is if you wanna get some cheap rec as a bouncer, just make your move when the fog comes out and you can't be seen, then pretend like nothing happened

Toby

03-24-2004, 06:52 PM

Yeah! Carry your own personal fogger, like a ninja. When someone gives you trouble, poof!, a cloud of fog appears around you, you down them then when the fog dissipates, you're gone!

Gangsterfist

03-24-2004, 07:18 PM

I don't know man, being stuck in a drum and bass club with a bunch of ravers would probably make me want to fight anyways.

If you are looking for a bouncing job to test your skills, I think you are going about it the wrong way. If you really want to test yourself just pick a fight with someone, or provoke someone to pick a fight with you. Its not very hard.

KungFuGuy!

03-25-2004, 04:48 AM

I've heard too many stories of bouncers getting sued or charged based on what they did in self defense to ever consider being one.
When I worked security I heard a lot of stories of fellow guards picking stupid fights. It's a lot easier with no witnesses I suppose. Something just like this (http://vid1.stileproject.com/9971c1cd04d768bc18f61284cfc30573/party3.wmv) happened to one of them. He was a lot fatter than that guard, though, and tried to chase them afterwards but probably winded himself after a few steps.

CaptinPickAxe

03-25-2004, 09:23 AM

I'll carry my own fogger and drop everyone in the club...including the cops:D

I'm not really taking the job to test my skills. I do that every week in class. I'm taking the job for the pay, and the possibility to strong arm some ravers. I'm not gonna rough anyone up, but I will hoist them up and drop them on their ass outside the club. Then slam the door in their face.

Gangsterfist

03-25-2004, 09:36 AM

Originally posted by CaptinPickAxe
I'll carry my own fogger and drop everyone in the club...including the cops:D

I'm not really taking the job to test my skills. I do that every week in class. I'm taking the job for the pay, and the possibility to strong arm some ravers. I'm not gonna rough anyone up, but I will hoist them up and drop them on their ass outside the club. Then slam the door in their face.

Well, okay but only if you use one liners when you kick them out. Like:

Biatches get stitches.

CaptinPickAxe

03-25-2004, 10:10 AM

or

"I'm a mushroom cloud laying muthaf#cka, muthafu#ka!"

or

"Prepare for a beating only god could rival!"

Gangsterfist

03-25-2004, 10:34 AM

or (break both their arms and then say:)

Take those broken wings and learn to fly again!

Man I love cheesy one liners.

CaptinPickAxe

03-29-2004, 04:33 PM

Speaking of 80s music. Has anyone seen the ad for New Zealand? I wanna know who sings the "Hey nowHey now" song.

dimmakseminar

03-29-2004, 05:13 PM

Originally posted by CaptinPickAxe
Speaking of 80s music. Has anyone seen the ad for New Zealand? I wanna know who sings the "Hey nowHey now" song.

Dear Mr. CaptainPickAxe:

The correct answer is "Who is 'Crowded House' and what is 'Don't Dream it's Over' for $400, Alex."

Sincerely,

dimmakseminar

http://www.etext.org/Mailing.Lists/house/CH/chcover.GIF

yenhoi

03-31-2004, 06:57 AM

I bounce on wednesday nights and it is not fun at all.

No matter how good the rest of your team is - weapons always make it in. Its a fact of life, and its a fear that you should ALWAYS have. That said, bouncing is all about being there first with the most. Either before the **** happens with lots of guys, or hitting him hard before he gets a chance to do something deadly serious.

www.kungfuonline.com has lots of links to bouncer/law enforcement/reality websites.

Good luck.

:eek:

David Jamieson

04-03-2004, 05:39 AM

I have bounced in nicer dance clubs and I have bounced in sh.it hole rock and roll bars.

Dunno what the laws and regs are where you are, but you best make yourself familiar with them.

It is not your right to turn the gig into your practice grounds. You are first and formost responsible for the sfety of the patrons. That is your job.

It is also your job to ensure that the environment is safe and that YOU as teh bouncer are NOT the problem or the centre of any violence that may occur.

So leave your sh.it at the door when you go to work is the best advice I can give you.

You're not there to beat up drunks or get your yah yahs out, you are there to work. Your work is to ensure that people can get drunk in a safe place and have a good time without some meathead crampin on em, without anyone wrecking the establishment and with as little heat drawn on you or the establishment as possible.

You have a duty of care, even to the most beligerent of customers. You have the responsibility of doing the right thing at the right time and trust me, that is no small order.

remain aware of teh situation at ALL times. Too often I've seen bouncers macing on chicks, flexing and mirror staring all kinds of goofy ****. I've even seen some of these bozoids go off on micemen who are only being lippy because they are drunk.

Do your best to NOT be that guy. If you can handle the situation with words, that is ALWAYS the route to take.

You represent the people the PAY you. When people come to sue, they aren't suing you, they are suiing your employer. Do NOT give anyone a reason to take legal action against you or the establishment you work for.

Bouncing is not the best work, but it will pay your bills and it is not entirely stressful. there is eye candy and teh people you get to work with and around are mostly there for a fun time, so you are for the most part in a positive environment which is a nice environment to work in.

anyway, check your ego at the door, leave your bad mood at home when you go to work and good luck.

cheers

Ray Pina

04-07-2004, 11:39 AM

I go to drum n bass parties from time to time .... I always get my spyderco and at least 3 joints in. I do this regularly at the large clubs in Manhattan as well like Sound Factory, Exit, ect.

These places have like five six large guys at the door, two to three guys frisking men (and removing shoes on occassion) ect. Just like before a fight, don;t underestimate what can happen.

Go bounce because you could use some extra cash and get to hand around drunk chicks and get paid. But don;t lookf for action. Your nomber one job is to stop **** before it happens. It's to notice that drunk snob stumbling and tell him to get down before he ****es over the ledge, or maybe even spot him a Red Bull and cranburry to wake him up a bit.

My friend bounced outside this place in Newark when I was in college. Dudes drove my with a shot gun later and fired at the door ... missing, though.

CaptinPickAxe

04-07-2004, 12:48 PM

The job fell through. Ol' buddy who was supposed to hook it up with the job ****ed the owners out of cash and on top of that jacked my friends rims last night. It sucks, I was looking forward to the whole bouncing game. Now, everyone is looking for this **** and its not going to be pretty when they find him...

oh well.

Shen Zhou

04-07-2004, 03:03 PM

I chose to bounce at one of the wildest clubs I could find in Fort Worth, Arlington. (did not want to drive to dallas) But any way my adventures varied depending on the night. Thursday night was why i took the job in the first place. Its the wildest night of the week with max capacity of 1600 people and maximun bouncers of 8. (Not by choice, no one wanted to stay) But I am a glutting for punishment. The break down was like this 3 BJJ from Macardo (sp) BJJ school in dallas, 3 kung fu students one Mantis two Wing chunners, and 2 very good street fighters I like to call the OG's.. My first day they pointed out the camera's and said "dont get caught on camera. Do what you want inside the club and stop once you get to the door and just pass them off to the cops". The break down of the club was 95% Mexican, 1% black 2%white 1% asian 1%other. Music was down south bout it bout it type stuff. Real fight music. Needless to say with this whole mixture of fighters as bouncers, 69 cent drinks, fight music, and the being the local gangsta hang out, plus fine women on top of that we fought every thursday. At least 5 big fights a night. I enjoyed working, and I still go back to work when I have a break from school.

Good to have in the ol tool box
Chin Na comes in handy,
Sense of the mood of the crowd is an acuired talent,
Not getting surrounded another skill,
knowing where everything is in the dark is a needed skill (ie. bottels, Pool Cues, Stools, and trash cans).
A strong stand up game most of the time and ground game if you get kncked down by the crowd running you need to get up really fast.

The club I worked for had a no tolorance rule on thursday nights so you where open game. I learned a lot from the club...... And alot from the other bouncers mostly the OG's because these guys have lived through battle conditions. Since working at the club I have been shot at, missed with beer bottols, kicked by chics (which some fight harder then some guys) and called every name in the book. But if you like that short of thing its a lot of fun and a great life teaching lesson. Its not all fights though, the women love the bouncers (or maybe just me) and you met and depend on your fellow bouncers we became really close. The most arrogant of the bunch where the BJJ. But they could back it up so i guess its not really arrogants. I cant wait for summer 103 degree heat outside 1000 degree inside, side short shorts, and booty music are a great mix.

Shen Zhou

PS. What EF and Kung Lek said as well

Sorry to hear about the job

Gangsterfist

04-07-2004, 06:03 PM

Originally posted by CaptinPickAxe
The job fell through. Ol' buddy who was supposed to hook it up with the job ****ed the owners out of cash and on top of that jacked my friends rims last night. It sucks, I was looking forward to the whole bouncing game. Now, everyone is looking for this **** and its not going to be pretty when they find him...

oh well.

I have never been a bouncer but my friends and a few of my roomates have. Well, not all of them were my close friends per se, but more like drinking and playing pool or darts buddies.

A lot of them were shady. Dealt drugs and other illegal things, were womanizers (but for some reason always had hot ladies), alcohalics, thieves etc.

From my personal life experience, I do not trust resturaunt and bar workers off the bat. I have met too many shady ones over the years.

CaptinPickAxe

04-08-2004, 01:01 PM

I ain't going to lie. I trusted him. He was a canadian (that should of tipped me off:D ) who studies Karate. He's kinda tall and a little slow. The guy he jacked is one of my students. He's short, skinny and has a temper to boot. If they fight, It'll be interesting.

Ray Pina

04-09-2004, 11:36 AM

You should tell your student to stay the hell away from a loser like that, and should set the example.

Also, if you're teaching I'm assuming you have enough experience already --street, ring, ect -- so why bother with bouncing and its headaches.

CaptinPickAxe

04-09-2004, 11:45 AM

plain and simple...

I Need Money!
Although, it fell through.

Gangsterfist

04-14-2004, 06:40 PM

Well, a guy I know bounces at these 2 yuppie bars (both owned and operated by the same people). I think I might try to get a door guy job for a few extra bucks. I am not a big person so normally they probably would not hire me, but with martial arts background maybe they would consider me. I also have an extensive computer background and have made fake IDs before (for the heck of it) with photoshop, wax printers, high end laser pritners, etc etc. So I think I may have a decent eye for pointing out fakes. However, I don't know if that is something I would want to bring up. I would only do it like twice a week for a little extra cash. However, I am very apprehensive about it and am not sure if I even want to try to be a doorman at a bar. I don't know if I have the patience for it.