Favourite Mantis Weapon

[blackmantis]

Hello everyone,

What are your favourite traditional chinese weapons? Which traditional chinese weapon would you use in battle (if that were ever to happen)?

S

[ursa major]

Without doubt my favourite traditional weapon (Chinese or otherwise) is the ground.

Best regards,
UM.

[mantis108]

UM, excellent choice of weapon! :D

well, if there is going to be a battle without guns, I would prefer the following:

1st choice on open fields: horse, bow and arrows (primary weapon), Da Dao (side arms), throwing knife and rope dart.

2nd choice on foot and/or in the bush: Da Dao, Chinese 2 section staff (side arms), throwing knife and rope dart.

If Da Dao is not availabe, I prefer a stick/staff, club (side arms), throwing knife and rope dart

I would replace rope dart with a chain if rope dart is not available. ;)

Mantis108

[EarthDragon]

samurai sword, though not a mantis weapon or even chinese is by far my favorite.

[MantisifuFW]

Earth Dragon,

I would encourage you to look into the Tanglang two handed Jian. There were even old texts that utilized both Japanese and Chinese techniques for this weapon as it reflected both Katana and Jian. In Southern China the Sern Sao Doe was utilized with the same mix of Japanese and Chinese techniques. (I know that there are those who disagree with this stand but there are old technical manuals, from the Qing dynasty, that depict exactly this kind of activity and generals from those eras made no bones about using those techniques).

This is a facinating line of inquiry as I have not given much thought to it, (silly me). I was, years ago, an avid bow hunter/ fisher and had some training in the use of the crossbow in unconventional warfare training so I would want it as my distance weapon. As for the others, the spear, the sern sao do, two handed jian, or the elk horn knives would be perferred though I can use the chain whip passibly. (In my youth I loved the three section though!)

Excellent post,

Steve Cottrell

[German Bai Lung]

Hmm, lets see:

I think the most effective Weapon for me is Cheung/Spear. Fits in almost every distance and even can be thrown.

But most of I like the Seung Ngau/Double Hooks. I love the endless possibilities of using the blades and hooks of that weapon! :)

[EarthDragon]

MantisFW, I have heard of the two handed Jian before, but dont know much about it. Perhaps I should research this weapon some more.Do you know of any links off hand? thank you ED

[MantisifuFW]

EarthDragon,

The Damo Jian is the usual name for the form where this weapon appears. There is a Shaolin version on tape in their series of sets, I believe, also Shifu Wang Rengang teaches a series regularly on this weapon. (He is an excellent teacher and gives a great seminar if anyone ever wonders). On the mainland, the Qixing Jian and the Ba Xian Jian forms both are performed with this weapon.

Hope it helps!

Steve Cottrell

[EarthDragon]

MantisifuFW,
Do you know of any sites that show the weapon, making or sale or even the history? thanks ED

[MantisifuFW]

EarthDragon,

Internet wise, I am afraid that only scant information is available. Shifu Wang Rengang obtained two handed jians for the seminar so I am certain that he knows where to get them.

In the future I plan to bring more information on the Jian to our website and to the Mantis Quarterly. In the meantime there is a book on the Sern Sao Doe, the southern two handed Do by Wong Hon-Fun. I have forms and techniques for both weapons and eventually will do videos on them both.

Sorry there is not more readily available,

steve Cottrell

[EarthDragon]

Thats OK steve thanks for the quick reponse. Having little info on these weapons makes me want to seek info on them even harder. the rarer the better. thanks.ED

[Thomas Chen]

To Steve Cottrell (aka MantisifuFW)

RE: I would encourage you to look into the Tanglang two handed Jian. There were even old texts that utilized both Japanese and Chinese techniques for this weapon as it reflected both Katana and Jian. In Southern China the Sern Sao Doe was utilized with the same mix of Japanese and Chinese techniques. (I know that there are those who disagree with this stand but there are old technical manuals, from the Qing dynasty, that depict exactly this kind of activity and generals from those eras made no bones about using those techniques).

Question: I am a researcher on all forms of Chinese 2-handed swordsmanship and am intrigued by what you said about old technical manuals from the Qing Dynasty. Could you elaborate on the titles and authors ??

RE: In the future I plan to bring more information on the Jian to our website and to the Mantis Quarterly. In the meantime there is a book on the Sern Sao Doe, the southern two handed Do by Wong Hon-Fun. I have forms and techniques for both weapons and eventually will do videos on them both.

Question: Are you referring to this book by Wong Hon-Fun, a WW2 military Dadao form:

http://www.chinabooks.com.au/generalcatalogue/makfu_2.htm

Classical Shaolin Quan, Volume 4: Jun Da Dao Shu (Military Big Sabre Art),HUANG Honfan & HUANG Honchao. CRANDALL Joseph (translated & edited).
Smiling Tiger Martial Arts Pinole
Velobound ISBN 1929047258 AU$47.95 [ts]

" This is one of the many books on Northern Praying Mantis written by Huang Hanxun (Wong Hon-fan). It contains a pictorial description of the Military Big Sabre form that Wong devised to teach the army during World War II. This form requires the use of the heavy two handed sabre frequently issued to the Chinese infantry during that time. "


I understand that there is an American martial artist, Michael Patterson, who teaches to students this Dadao form but by using a 2-handed jian....
____________________________________


There were also two Video CDs of two different meihua praying mantis 2-handed jian forms published recently in China....

Check out also my website for the official Praying Mantis 2-handed jian form and other 2-handed jian and dao forms:

List of styles and manuals: http://thomaschen.freewebspace.com/contact.html

VCDs
http://forums.swordforum.com/showthread.php?threadid=20837

Let me know if I can be of further assistance.


Regards
Thomas Chen

[MantisifuFW]

Mr. Chen,

I am pleased to make your acquaintence and will check out your site and the resource you recommend as soon as I can. It is heartening to know that someone is doing concentrated research on the two handed sword art of China. Other than you, the only other group that I know of doing such research are the members of a sword collectors group here in the U.S. They meet at exhibitions here and collect both manuals and old weapons. A website that would be of help in contacting them would be

http://www.sevenstarstrading.com/

an excellent resource for antique weapons and other items.

As for manuals and resources on two handed swordsmanship the ones that come to mind immediately are:

General Qi Ji Guang (1500s, I believe) Ji Xiao Xin Shu, New Book of Effective Discipline and Xin You Dao Fa, a book on the long, (two handed), Dao.

Cheng Chong Dou (1600s) advocated a really LONG two-handed sword. He was reportedly trained at the Shaolin temple.

Hope this helps, I will try to dig some other stuff up as I get time but I have to run!

Again good to meet you and I will visit your site soon!
Hope it helps,

Steve Cottrell

[Ren Blade]

I would choose Katana as well. My school doesn't teach 2 handed Jian otherwise I'd be all over it. I currently take Iaido to get basic Katana handling because my Kung Fu school doesn't teach Miao Dao or any 2 handed sword. Most of the sword work in my school is the standard single handed Jian/Broadsword. And I do Iaido cause I think the Japanese sword is so beautiful and it's usage is unique and has a certain mystique. But are there any seminars on traditional usage of 2 handed Jian coming up or anyone out there willing to teach it?

[BeiTangLang]

Is it just the 2-handed feature you are looking for when you say you would choose the katana?

I suppose I'll post my personal prefs since I asked the question;
Compound armed bow (long-med range), sern sao do (heavy aromour usage), willow leaf saber (general usage).

I do like the staff though & would use it for general usage as well.
Close in, just a handy knife would work for me too.

Best wishes,
~BTL

[Ren Blade]

It's both. The 2 handed feature and the Katana. Though I would love to learn some 2 handed Jian or Miao Dao. But I have always been charmed by the Japanese sword and that's why I'm doing Iaido as well.

[Mr.Binx]

Though many of this forum's member's are probably already familiar with this article, in light of the topic at hand I thought that the re-posting of this brief and informative link to an article on Chinese Sword History (http://www.shadowofleaves.com/Chinese_Sword_History.htm) might be apropriate and enjoyable.

Edit: Just in case you missed it earlier in this thread, I strongly suggest perusing through Thomas Chen's website (http://thomaschen.freewebspace.com/) as it is very solid in it's content and contains a vast mountain of useful information.

[flem]

did i miss something or did no one mention double broadsword?
life-size blender

[bungda07]

1. Two handed Jian(Favorite)

2. Spear/staff

3. Cern Sao Dao

4. Double Broad Sword (On down the road)

V/r
Steve M.

[Mediocrity]

My favorite weapon?

my hands.

[Xdr4g0nx]

the ground

[Dachengdao]

Hi Friends,
I happen to have some 2 Handed swords that I am selling for $175 (plus shipping, if out of NYC area). If anyone is interested, please email me and I will send a picture with more info.

Thanks for the compliments on my seminar, Steve! I've been thinking about going out to Texas later. We'll talk more about it in the future. All the best to you!

Wang Rengang
dachengdao (dachengdao@yahoo.com)

[Green_Tea]

I'm still new to kung fu so I haven't had any weapons training yet, but I will say I am very much so looking forward to learning fan. I know it's a long ways off and I don't know how effective it would be against other weapons but it just looks so graceful and beautiful.

[yu shan]

Green_Tea

One thing for sure, Wah Lum has dynamite weapons forms. And what a wide selection to choose from. I learned two fan forms, one very basic (more flute like movement) the other more advanced & flashy. With the learning scheme of WL, you`ll probably start with stick. Have fun!

[Green_Tea]

Right, we learn stick first. I have first form to learn before I get to stick. I'm not sure the order after that but I believe fan is much later and it's more like an "elective" form. I could be wrong though, I haven't really ask yet because I didn't want to appear impatient.

[Banjos_dad]

I post mainly on the Shaolin page.
I favor the pole because I don't like to let people narrow the gap. Frinstance, I'm a kicker. In a real fight I blast em with a sidekick (sometimes feint a hand attack then kick) then exploit whatever opening results...on my terms:cool:

So I think, the staff or better yet a spear, although I haven't trained the chiang (sp?) yet, it seems like a pole with a blade on the end would be a quick fight-ender, also it's size helping obstruct round attacks? or parry thrusts hopefully?

[mantisben]

Originally posted by EarthDragon
MantisFW, I have heard of the two handed Jian before, but dont know much about it. Perhaps I should research this weapon some more.Do you know of any links off hand? thank you ED

A couple of years ago, I visited this school on 29th street in NYC, NY. It was called the PaChi Tang Lang Martial Arts Academy. While I was there, I saw a 2-handed 2-Man sword form. I was awestuck! The man and woman doing the form looked like they knew how to use the sword. I was a bit confused, because, at first glance, I was thinking "are they swinging a SAMURAI sword in a Kung-Fu school?". But upon closer inspection (not too close), it looked different from a Samurai sword.

Anyway, the 1-man form was beautiful. The 2-man form was beautiful. And the 2 people doing the form swang it at each other almost like they were trying to hit homeruns. The swords were wooden. Still, I remember thinking, "If someone misses the block, they're gonna hurt really bad.".

http://www.pachitanglang.com

Maybe someone at this school wouldn't mind answering some questions about the 2-handed Chinese Long-Sword.