Shuai Jiao Peeps...Question?

[PT-Kali]

OK, I was looking into training some Shuai Jiao in Dallas (Victor Ke). While doing some research, I see he is part of the Combat Shuai Chiao club under David Lin.

However, I came across this intereseting statement from Gene Chicoine's site:

"Last but not least is David Lin of New York City, who makes all kinds of claims of skill and knowledge. One of the claims that specifically upsets G.M. Chicoine is Lin's claim of being qualified and skilled in Shuai Chiao. Mr. Lin had only six months of basic training in Shuai Chiao under Jeng Hsing Peng, the most capable instructor of the Shuai Chiao throws and Chin Na alive today. Mr. Lin is a perfect example of a martial artist attempting to sound credible and skilled based upon the fact that he is Chinese. In fact, Lin has no skill and merely associates with a lot of others like him in an attempt to gain notoriety." He then goes on to discredit every other Shuai Chiao person in existence, like Frank Demaria, Daniel Weng, etc....

What's up with that. Are we to bleive that Chicoine is the ONLY teacher of Shuai Chiao alive today?? I'm not trying to troll here (for you people that like to say everyone trolls), I'm just looking for some answers...anyone?

[Chang Style Novice]

There are two David Lins. One in NYC, and it is he who is referred to in the passage you quote, and another in Atlanta. The man in Atlanta is GM Chang's top student from Taiwan, and the co-founder (along with several other senior students) of the ACSCA.

Not many people dis the ACSCA practitioners, and those who do often end up with lumps on their noodles.

As for Chicione, I dunno what his beef is exactly.

[Water Dragon]

Originally posted by PT-Kali
He then goes on to discredit every other Shuai Chiao person in existence, like Frank Demaria, Daniel Weng, etc....


This statement says everything you need to know.

[norther practitioner]

Aww, come on WD, you shouldn't have deleted that last post.

[Water Dragon]

I'm trying to be a good boy.

[CaptinPickAxe]

I went to a seminar with David Lin (GM Cheng's) and I must say he is very capable. Besides handing a group of 15 20 year olds thier asses without breaking a sweat, he teaches Shuai Chiao to Navy Seals. I've trained under his student's student and he is also very capable of teaching, fighting, and progressing up the ranks. He must be talking about another David Lin.

[PT-Kali]

thanks for the input guys, that answers a lot of questions...my newer question is what gives with deleting posts here? I'm honestly trying to get information on new training, and I'd like to hear all opinions :D

[lkfmdc]

David Lin of Atlanta (REAL David Lin), legit bad ass, be afraid, be VERY afraid, unless you are nice and he teaches you, then be thankful, be very thankful :D

David Lin of NYC (FAKE David Lin), 500% FRAUD and exactly someone living off the fact that he's Chinese and a lot of dumb Americans just trust an Asian face. "fake David Lin" has no skill at all, probably has LESS than 6 months Shuai Jiao and I personally was gonna bash his head in at least twice (but those are other stories)

Gene Chicoine's story is well known inside the SC world, no need to repeat it here, yeah, he says nice things about Sifu Jeng, he'd friggin better, cause Jeng is the man! Not as much a "bad ass" as REAL David Lin but very skilled and probably more knowledgable on historical and classical SC

Daniel Weng is also very good, but a tier down from Shihfu Jeng and Shihfu Lin (REAL)

[CaptinPickAxe]

John Wang is a pimp daddy too...that's my Sifu's Sifu.

[red5angel]

I'm trying to be a good boy.

or some sort of big ole wussy :D

[lkfmdc]

some people are so shy about calling people frauds and a-holes, that's why I'm here! :D

[norther practitioner]

Originally posted by lkfmdc
some people are so shy about calling people frauds and a-holes, that's why I'm here! :D

lol.. yeah, you def. call em how you percieve them... :D

[lkfmdc]

and, because of that, on a good day I also probably generate about 50% of the conversation on this thing ;)

[norther practitioner]

LOL.. you're too funny sometimes.... the rest of the time you can be a **** though....:p :D

[lkfmdc]

but I generate conversation in both manifestations, so that's my point....

Anyhoo, FAKE David Lin in NYC deserves whatever is said about him, what a maroon

[red5angel]

I still wanna here about you almost kicking his ass.

[lkfmdc]

First occassion, a student of mine enters a SC event. he's 187 (he's a san shou fighter also) but his friend from Taichi is in the same division, so he moves up to heavyweight. My student wins the first match in like a minute, the level of some of the guys there sucked. The next guy he's supposed to fight is a student of FAKE David Lin.

FAKE David Lin tries to tell my student that he shouldn't be competing in that class because he's the wrong weight (yeah, he's LIGHTER), then says some crap about how he's a senior SC guy so we should bow out (crap) or even throw the match! (Maroon). My guy throws FAKE David Lin's boy real quick to win the event. FAKE David Lin refuses to hand him the medal or shake his hand. I wanted to go down to his school and punch him in the head. Student said his head was too soft and I might get my hand stuck :D

Second time, FAKE David Lin's dumb students have the nerve to come to my school and put their fake ass flyers up on my door (we are about a block away). For those who don't know, in traditional Chinese martial art, this is actually a challenge to fight.

I am P i zz ed offf like a mutha fookfu'er and call him up and scream at him, he hangs up on me so I call him back again. He has the nerve to tell me he's a "famous Chinese master" so I tell him if it ever happens again I"ll come down the street and spank his famous Chinese butt in front of his famous Chinese loving students... Needless to say in a year I haven't seen his flyers anywhere near my door

[red5angel]

so this guys real classy too!

Just make sure you get pictures of you beating his ass if it ever happens.
Or you could sick Kug Lek on him ;)

[lkfmdc]

sick KL on him? man, that's cruel and inhuman, even for that guy :D

[CaptinPickAxe]

Sorry, Sifu Ross, but if he did what you said, I would of romped him in front of his students...no better yet, I would of had his friends and family present so they can see what happens when you disrespect other schools like that. That is blantant disrespect and seems like he was looking for a fight. You should of walked in with a sign that says "FAKE David Lin, FAKE Shuai Chiao" and say if you beat him he has to hang it in front of his school...

[lkfmdc]

I'm trying to mellow out with age

can't you tell :D

[brassmonkey]

"Gene Chicoine's story is well known inside the SC world, no need to repeat it here"

I havent heard this story. Could you repeat it here or pm me please.

[Water Dragon]

Originally posted by brassmonkey
"Gene Chicoine's story is well known inside the SC world, no need to repeat it here"
.

There's not much to it. The man slanders people like a KFO poster. You can read it yourself on his website.

[kungfu cowboy]

He is just using a socially acceptable form of manlove.

[Face2Fist]

LOL!
you guys are funny.. all this talk about kicking @ss

i feel like i m in the 3rd grade

[lkfmdc]

you are missing the point, this place is the adult equivalent of 3rd grade :D

should I post the dirty secrets on Chicoine?

[PT-Kali]

heck ya, post'em before the commies (mods) on this board delete them!

[lkfmdc]

Some are embarassed by the story, but thre reality is, a lot of Chinese teachers have similar thinking and similar bad judgement in working with certain people.

I'm not telling you how I know this, since I wasn't told it was ok to state the source, if that means you don't want to believe it, fine, I won't argue with you

Master Chang wanted to expand SC in the western world, quite a noble goal. He also had no issues about teaching the real stuff to Westerners, also a good thing.

Chicoine was originally a Goju Ryu Karate guy, then did some really bad Kung-Fooey stuff with an Ohio local who was very controversial and who, IMO, taught utter crap...

But Chicoine was very influencial locally, as a successful business man, former law enforcement official and local "big man". This "big shot" thing impressed Chang, it seems easy to impress Chinese with small things. My own teacher often interpreted basicly nothing as if it was a sign that a person was "important". I don't hold it at all against Chang

Chicoine also had lots of money.

All this led to Chicoine convincing Chang that if he was the leader of the organization, it would grow in the Western world and prosper. Chicoine said he'd use his influence and his money.

The major issue of course was that at the time, it is said that Chicoine knew about 12 throws/techniques total...

Supposedly, the "deal" was that Chicoine would be the POLITICAL head of the organization, with the Taiwan group, the guys who had studied a long time, actually fought, and actually knew the system, running the actual technical stuff...

So before Chang died, it was announced that Chicoine would become the "head of the organization" and papers to that effect were written up. Of course, Chang assumed (incorrectly) that the agreement would be held to and that Chicoine wouldn't be stupid enough to think he knew more than guys like Lin, Weng, Jeng, etc

All bets have been off since Chang passed away, with Chicoine frequently trying to pass of his previous BS training as "real Shuai Chiao", which IS pretty embarassing!!!!!

[red5angel]

you guys are funny.. all this talk about kicking @ss


Well, what I don't find so funny are all these kungfu hippy types who supposedly don't like or don't enjoy fighting. I can honestly say I am in the martial arts to learn how to fight, period. I don't get into a lot of fights, maybe because I know I don't need to, but if you want to, I don't have a problem doing it.
I'm an advocate of kicking ass in situations like that. Here's Ross and his place trying to make a name for an art form, and there is this othr guy who's fukking it up, teaching crap, and ripping his students off. On top f that he's doing damage by making people believe he knows something he doesn't, that **** get's passed down to others and it spreads.
If I were Ross, I'd arrange to beat his ass once a week untli he came to me to learn to fight, or quit teaching. Sure it's barbaric but then he isn't doing any damage is he? He wants to pretend to be a martial artist then let him, but call him on it.
I think, fighting is a perfectly acceptable way of determining whether someone should or should not be teaching MA.

[lkfmdc]

I know I've noted this before, but I guess I should again, in FAKE David Lin's school, they never actually execute the throws, they walk through the set ups and then stop, so no one "get's hurt" :rolleyes:

[kungfu cowboy]

lkfmdc, did you study with that Ohio group? I think I kno who you are referring to. A bit ...:rolleyes:

[Face2Fist]

no one here is the martial arts police.. people learn on their own if they find a bad teacher, they ll figure it out , like they said buyer beware...

[lkfmdc]

I agree with most of that except the part about how people will figure it out, they won't mostly, most people will blindly follow a method no matter how much the truth smacks them in the face, it's said, but it's also true :(

[CaptinPickAxe]

If I see a phallacy in my art, I'll try and find something to supplement it and fill that gap. But if the drawbacks are defined enough, I'll leave. That was my situation with SD. I stuck with it, untill I found something else...regardless, how sh!te it is, I wasn't about to let myself get out of practice.

[MasterKiller]

Originally posted by CaptinPickAxe
If I see a phallacy in my art, I'll try and find something to supplement it and fill that gap. How often do you see a phallus in yourself? Do you know kungfu cowboy?

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by PT-Kali
heck ya, post'em before the commies (mods) on this board delete them!

the commies delete and move non MA related stuff only.

[lkfmdc]

yeah, I am (censored) sure (edited) the (line delted) any (censored) that is not (edited) MA related (2 lines deleted)

:D :D :D

[red5angel]

no one here is the martial arts police.. people learn on their own if they find a bad teacher, they ll figure it out

Sure, unless they start talking smack or causing damage to the martial community at large. I imaine school attendance would go up if you could show some people that what they are learning is fake and doesn't work, by using the actual stuff to win a fight.

[MonkeySlap Too]

Nah, I've met plenty of people who have dedicated thier entire lives to learning something that only ensures they will get thier azz whupped.

I don't care anymore. Don't have time. Caveat Emptor.