Sometimes MMA wins, sometimes TMA wins

[Ren Blade]

All though proven that MMA has worked effectively against TMA, here's something else that MMA isn't the end all be all. It really comes down to the individual's quality of training/instruction regardless of style. If MMA helps you win fights, then hell train hard in it. If TMA helps you win fights, then hell train hard in it.

http://www.e-budo.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?s=&threadid=24919

Wounded Ronin
Member

Registered: Mar 2004
Location:
Posts: 20

Well I've done judo for about 4 years, and some standup jujutsu before that, and I feel quite comfortable doing freestyle grappling on the ground. But once I was sparring with a friend of mine with a strong kung fu background. He was able to stay out of my reach. I kept chasing him around the room trying to use boxing, but he has these really long legs so he kept retreating in circles around the room.

After some minutes of Monty Python-esque chasing, he finally had the chance to side kick me in the floating ribs as I tried to jab him for the millionth time. This caused me to get severely winded and try as I might to chase him I moved slower and slower as I felt my strength oozing away.

So, TMA isn't necessarily useless against MMA. In this case, the TMA guy was able to use tactics to draw me out enough to plant his big traditional power kick.


__________________
-Sage Nagai

[SevenStar]

Bah. The Good MMA Guy (TM) is successful every time.

[rubthebuddha]

i guess this mma guy hasn't bought your videos yet, sevenstar. send him a brochure.

[SevenStar]

will do.

[David Jamieson]

uh, judo and jujitsu are tma

so where is that guy coming from?

i guess his judo and jujitsu was no good against his buds kungfu.

probably had more to do with him chasing arms than anything else.

a good fighter is a good fighter, period. mma, tma, etc etc, non of that matters when it comes down to brass tacks.

you either got it, or you don't and some days you do, some days you don't.

keep practicing,

that is all

[MasterKiller]

Originally posted by rubthebuddha
i guess this mma guy hasn't bought your videos yet, sevenstar. send him a brochure. I ordered 7*s brochure, but all he sent me was nude pics of himself with kittens.

[Ren Blade]

Originally posted by Kung Lek
uh, judo and jujitsu are tma

so where is that guy coming from?

i guess his judo and jujitsu was no good against his buds kungfu.

probably had more to do with him chasing arms than anything else.

a good fighter is a good fighter, period. mma, tma, etc etc, non of that matters when it comes down to brass tacks.

you either got it, or you don't and some days you do, some days you don't.

keep practicing,

that is all
That's true. Very good point. Especially that judo and jujutsu are TMA. Thanks.

[rubthebuddha]

I ordered 7*s brochure, but all he sent me was nude pics of himself with kittens. those are the brochures, mk. you just don't understand the applications.

[WanderingMonk]

You know folks, if it ain't on video, it didn't happen.

[Shaolinlueb]

so pi chuan is useless if you're on your back? wtf? man if you know how to use your body, you can throw a hard punch form any position. and who said you have to hit his head. there are plenty of targets that you can hit and eventually hurt someone.

[Ren Blade]

Originally posted by WanderingMonk
You know folks, if it ain't on video, it didn't happen.
Ha ha ha. Yes, I never woke up this morning. Cause no one video taped it. In fact, I was never born cause that wasn't video taped either. That means I don't exist. :eek:

[Ren Blade]

Originally posted by Shaolinlueb
man if you know how to use your body, you can throw a hard punch form any position. and who said you have to hit his head. there are plenty of targets that you can hit and eventually hurt someone.
Yes.

[norther practitioner]

What is the definition of MMA...
I study Yang taiji, and northern long fist ... does that mean I'm a mma?

[MasterKiller]

Originally posted by norther practitioner
What is the definition of MMA...
I study Yang taiji, and northern long fist ... does that mean I'm a mma? Only if you win. If you lose, you are TMA.

[SifuAbel]

Originally posted by MasterKiller
Only if you win. If you lose, you are TMA.


LOL! So True...............

[backbreaker]

MMA means that you fight against other styles and you are a fighter. MMA is sport fighting. Generally the main styles used in it at the high level are boxing, muay thai, wrestling, submission wrestling, and bjj. You don't see very many of the so called TMAs in MMA competitions, some people say that TMA styles don't compete or fight, or even spar. Some people think if TMAists spar they can be as good as MMAists, but many MMA guys think that is silly so why not do proven styles geared towards the fight, instead of remaking TMA to fit the modern wants, when you can start out in MMA styles. I'd like to see a TMAist win in UFC , Pride, or others, just for variety

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by MasterKiller
Only if you win. If you lose, you are TMA.

we should actually try to define TMA, because whenever a TMA loses, everyone is quick to say "he had no skill anyway"

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by Kung Lek
uh, judo and jujitsu are tma

so where is that guy coming from?


it's contextual. looking at it that way (which is a logical way of looking at it) muay thai is a tma, boxing is a tma, wrestling is a tma. But, it's used in sportive venues and encompasses more modern training methods, and is therefore not lumped into the tma category.

[MasterKiller]

Originally posted by SevenStar
we should actually try to define TMA, because whenever a TMA loses, everyone is quick to say "he had no skill anyway" *mrrrrrreow* *scratch* *scratch*

[norther practitioner]

I was being sarcastic, but this is what I was looking for.

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by Shaolinlueb
so pi chuan is useless if you're on your back? wtf? man if you know how to use your body, you can throw a hard punch form any position. and who said you have to hit his head. there are plenty of targets that you can hit and eventually hurt someone.

that's debatable.

1. you have a reach disadvantage
2. I have the power advantage
3. you are very limited in targets you can hit
4. If you are properly mounted, his knees are in your armpits - you don't have much use of your arms.

[backbreaker]

I guess you could consider Yoshida, and Royce Gracie TMAists. But not really, as their styles are now known in MMA. They start out TMA and then mix it into mixed martial arts

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by MasterKiller
I ordered 7*s brochure, but all he sent me was nude pics of himself with kittens.

Those were pics of Royal Dragon. I figure anyone who can look at them and still want to train would be a worthy student.

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by backbreaker
I guess you could consider Yoshida, and Royce Gracie TMAists. But not really, as their styles are now known in MMA. They start out TMA and then mix it into mixed martial arts

not true. I've actually asked royce. he will tell you that he is a bjj practitioner, not an mma guy. He is a bjj guy that competes in mma.

[MasterKiller]

Originally posted by SevenStar


not true. I've actually asked royce. he will tell you that he is a bjj practitioner, not an mma guy. He is a bjj guy that competes in mma. Does he consider himself TMA?

[backbreaker]

The terms don't have to be contradictory then. Yeah, Royce doesn't seem to be a MMA fighter like alot of the guys who fight every second month, or champions. It seems to me that the MMA organizations promote themselves as knowing what really works, and TMA's don't. Lots of UFC fighters have said this in interviews or while commentating, and Joe Rogan or whatever his name is, the fear factor guy is always saying things like that. The UFC has progressed MA more in 10 years than all previous years, they say this on the air all the time, and it seems alot of MA people are beleiving it. It can be true to an extent , but not really

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by MasterKiller
Does he consider himself TMA?

I'll have to ask him - he only said he's a bjj guy, not an mma guy.

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by backbreaker
The terms don't have to be contradictory then. Yeah, Royce doesn't seem to be a MMA fighter like alot of the guys who fight every second month, or champions. It seems to me that the MMA organizations promote themselves as knowing what really works, and TMA's don't. Lots of UFC fighters have said this in interviews or while commentating, and Joe Rogan or whatever his name is, the fear factor guy is always saying things like that. The UFC has progressed MA more in 10 years than all previous years, they say this on the air all the time, and it seems alot of MA people are beleiving it. It can be true to an extent , but not really

rogan actually is a tma - he was like a national or international tkd champ. If I'm not mistaken, he was supposed to be on the olympic team at one point in his career.

When it comes to fighting in the ring, alot of tma don't know what really works, it seems. as for the street, that's debatable, but you won't actually find out until you are in a streetfight. that goes for tma and mma.

[backbreaker]

Probably because Royce no longer feels he needs to prove himself or his art. People know that you can become a MMA champion with bjj because others have done that now, but there are no "kungfu" champions in MMA, they probably think like Royce except that they don't even think they ever had to prove anything, and of course many "kungfu" guys on other sites will tell you, BJJ is good at what it's for, the ring. And "kungfu" is good at what it's for, the street and reality;) Like they're training for the ultimate day when some mugger attacks their family while they're going for a stroll downtown


Rogan says TKD is goofy, if he knows TKD, well, I don't know a whole lot of it, I learned some TKD from Pierre Guenette who got taken out by Andy Hug, I won't argue then

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by backbreaker
but there are no "kungfu" champions in MMA,

jason delucia claims to train 5 animals and his record is 33-19

they probably think like Royce except that they don't even think they ever had to prove anything, and of course many "kungfu" guys on other sites will tell you, BJJ is good at what it's for, the ring. And "kungfu" is good at what it's for, the street and reality;)

my pet peeve is tma who think this way...


Rogan says TKD is goofy, if he knows TKD, well, I don't know a whole lot of it, I learned some TKD from Pierre Guenette who got taken out by Andy Hug, I won't argue then

he was still a champ at it.

[Shaolinlueb]

im gonna sounds like a noob here. whats TMA stand for? im not quite sure.

[backbreaker]

didn't Jason Delucia retire after he was injured in like UFC 23? Nothing against him, I just don't think he's a big player like say, Royce. I don't see future MMA guys modeling themselves after him, or current MMA guys wanting to learn his 5 animal style. It seems mant kungfu guys want the MMA guys to cross train with them, but the MMA guys just don't see the need. If you think your style is good, fight. AT least Jason Delucia fights, using some kungfu , pankration, I've even heard he does aikido, but somehow I doubt he is an expert, or top level in any, but he is maybe diverse. I don't know. BJJ is known because of UFC, kungfu is not

TMA= traditional martial arts

MMA= mixed martial arts, refers to events like UFC, Pride

[backbreaker]

Qoute

"my pet peeve is tma who think this way"

When I first started visiting MA forums this last summer ( 2003) I had no idea how prevalent this kind of thinking is. I never viewed arts as "street arts" and "sport arts". I know now, holy **** I was unprepared

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by Shaolinlueb
im gonna sounds like a noob here. whats TMA stand for? im not quite sure.

traditional martial art(ist)

[SifuAbel]

Originally posted by SevenStar


we should actually try to define TMA, because whenever a TMA loses, everyone is quick to say "he had no skill anyway"

Hmmmmmmmmm , no.

This is because whats presented as the entirety of TMA in competition is the same tired handfull of examples. Yet, when an MMA guy wins a bout and he's trained in a TMA he isn't credited with it. He's a"MMA" guy. Whatever that means . There is no MMA without TMA. All the practitioners do some sort of style. MMA is a venue. You can't just lump MT and JJ and call it by a different name. IMO, the striking portion has technically de-evolved(with the exception of a few). Its not really that great or improved and tends to be token to the grappling in some bouts. And the grappling, is grappling, its hasn't changed much either.



It seems to me that the MMA organizations promote themselves as knowing what really works, and TMA's don't.


Great maketing ploy.

[Christopher M]

Originally posted by SevenStar
jason delucia claims to train 5 animals

Then again, he's claiming he does aikido (http://www.aikidog.com/) now.

[Shaolinlueb]

Originally posted by Christopher M


Then again, he's claiming he does aikido (http://www.aikidog.com/) now.


dude that site was so poorly designed. i had to strech it across my dual screens to see the whole thing. :mad: you wasted 20 seconds on my life i will never get back.

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by backbreaker
didn't Jason Delucia retire after he was injured in like UFC 23? Nothing against him, I just don't think he's a big player like say, Royce. I don't see future MMA guys modeling themselves after him, or current MMA guys wanting to learn his 5 animal style. It seems mant kungfu guys want the MMA guys to cross train with them, but the MMA guys just don't see the need. If you think your style is good, fight. AT least Jason Delucia fights, using some kungfu , pankration, I've even heard he does aikido, but somehow I doubt he is an expert, or top level in any, but he is maybe diverse. I don't know. BJJ is known because of UFC, kungfu is not


that's not what you were talking about originally. you were talking about CMA champs, and delucia has a winning record. BJJ was known before the UFC, but the advent of it is what brought it into the spotlight.

[backbreaker]

Who are the champs of CMA? John Wang? Ren Guangyi? BJJ and the gracies were criticized by Inside Kungfu magazine before UFC, not anymore. Bottom line I think is that BJJ has in fact changed peoples ideas about martial arts in the last 10 way more than CMA

[Vash]

Superior tactics + decent skill = you got pwn3d.

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by backbreaker
Who are the champs of CMA? John Wang? Ren Guangyi? BJJ and the gracies were criticized by Inside Kungfu magazine before UFC, not anymore. Bottom line I think is that BJJ has in fact changed peoples ideas about martial arts in the last 10 way more than CMA

There's no argument there. What does that have to do with CMA in MMA venues? the bjj guys then were like hackers - they found a hole and exploited it. Natually, alot was contributed to the MA world because of that. CMA hasn't contributed anything really new or overlooked over the years, it merely presents a different method of doing things. As far as CMA champs, there out there, but overlooked because of the venue - in the grand scheme of things, the world doesn't care about forms and point tournies. Now San Shou....that may be the next big thing, and CMA's chance to really gain some good exposure.

With the people you named, look at who you were naming - people who are well known from names they made of themselves in the past. Let's start naming people who are doing it now...

[yenhoi]

Larry Zolpher?

:cool:

[David Jamieson]

mma is generally thought of as striking+wrestling mixed, but this also defines trad jujitsu, kungfu (with the chin na and ditang), and other "complete" styles from the families of asian martial arts.

imo, mma is along the same lines as jkd, inasmuch as it's a concept not a particular style or set of styles.

however, if you practice judo and karate you are mixing your martial arts.

same is true if you do wing chun and tai chi, and so on and so on.

so, it's just a tad nebulous.

boxer/wrestler is a good western definition of the mma-ist.

but wrestling and boxing can be covered with asian martial arts too.

I think that as we see next gen crops of fighters, we'll also see that so called mma's will become tma because what is tradition but adhere to teaching the way you were taught?

THat's what tradition means afterall, to pass along something in the same manner as it was given to you.

anyway... we need more acronyms anyway because the average gwai lo isn't confused enough as it is and everyone that doesn't do it should see it only as mystical forces that destroy normal humans.

let's try and keep that image going :rolleyes:

[ShaolinTiger00]

uh, judo and jujitsu are tma

Judo is not a TMA.

[David Jamieson]

well, st00 originally it wan't a traditional martial art, but it has certainly become one since Kano rolled it out oh so long ago. :D

Same can be said for Mas Oyama's Kyukoshin. It wasn't traditional at first, in fact it was anti traditional and there was a severe rift between Mas and the Shotokan Folks.

But now, there are many who teach Kyukoshin in the traditional way as do many many many Judo instructors (sensei) :D

lol, see what i mean, jellybean? the old becomes new and the new becomes old.

havong said that, please refer to walls post in regards to the connection between reality and perception and how perception is reality but really we know it isn't.

[backbreaker]

On a UFC TEam Miletich 9.99 pay per view Miletich said TMAs don't improve, so MMA will become the hugest thing, it's only a matter of how much time.

[WinterPalm]

What is the average gwai lo?
Does it include me?

[ShaolinTiger00]

, but it has certainly become one since Kano rolled it out oh so long ago.

This is not an issue about "time".

Judo is not a koryu bujutsu, it is a gendai budo. It was developed from a TMA - jujutsu.

The only aspect of judo that is remotely close to TMA is the lip service paid to kata (which is always a 2 man set).

We are a combat sport as stated by the IJF.

There are aspects of judo found in combatives and judo's applications are certainly capable of causing damage.

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by backbreaker
On a UFC TEam Miletich 9.99 pay per view Miletich said TMAs don't improve, so MMA will become the hugest thing, it's only a matter of how much time.

yes and no, IMO. Some TMA don't improve - there have been several that have began to train ground fighting and realize that it is a legit threat. Then you have those who will never face facts and will continue to live blinded.

However, there will always be those who seek to train in traditional styles, and for that reason, they will never die out.

[Royal Dragon]

Those were pics of Royal Dragon. I figure anyone who can look at them and still want to train would be a worthy student.

Reply]
HEY!!, I heard that!!!!






















:D

[David Jamieson]

st00

koryu is indicative of classical martial arts and not necessarily traditional martial arts although classical martial arts are traditional. :)

traditional is more of a generational hand me down kind of thing.

hand something down long enough and it becomes classical. hand it down for more than one generation and it becomes traditional.

by definition anyway.

many chinese martial arts are traditional, some are classical now but were not at their inception. Modern san shou and competitive wushu are examples of something that will be regarded as traditional in another 50 years or so.


cheers

[ShaolinTiger00]

You're full of $hit.


traditional is more of a generational hand me down kind of thing.

False.




Modern san shou and competitive wushu are examples of something that will be regarded as traditional in another 50 years or so.

False.


What part of combat sport didn't you get thru your dense skull?

Judo has never been "tma" and it's over 120 years and it's still not traditional. Why? combat sport. not based on kata, an art based around COMPETING against skilled opponents if a fully resiting manner.

And just like judo, boxing, wrestling and other combat sports, san shou will NEVER be regarded as tma.

get back to what you know. throwing punches in the air paper tiger..

[Christopher M]

Traditional means "uses kata and doesn't spar"?

[Unmatchable]

Originally posted by SevenStar


rogan actually is a tma - he was like a national or international tkd champ. If I'm not mistaken, he was supposed to be on the olympic team at one point in his career.

When it comes to fighting in the ring, alot of tma don't know what really works, it seems. as for the street, that's debatable, but you won't actually find out until you are in a streetfight. that goes for tma and mma.

MMmm, tkd by your definition is a modern martial art. They xompete and on an olympic level, spar alot, but also train in a tradtional unalive manner of punching and leaving your arm there than doing a form. So it's a mix actually.

As for Royce Gracie some people on bullshido were saying he trained in kickboxing before even competing in the first ufc making him a mma kind of like Tank ABbot from the get go.

[Shaolinlueb]

i am a firm believer in TMA over dry humping oin the floor grunting and feeling each other up when you call it "arm lock".

[David Jamieson]

st00-

you don't need to get mad dude.

where are we talking about "combat sports"? and why do you think that either combat sports or ritual martial arts cannot both be traditional?

tra·di·tion ( P ) Pronunciation Key (tr-dshn)
n.
The passing down of elements of a culture from generation to generation, especially by oral communication.

A mode of thought or behavior followed by a people continuously from generation to generation; a custom or usage.
A set of such customs and usages viewed as a coherent body of precedents influencing the present: followed family tradition in dress and manners. See Synonyms at heritage.
A body of unwritten religious precepts.
A time-honored practice or set of such practices.
Law. Transfer of property to another.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
[Middle English tradicion, from Old French, from Latin trditi, trditin-, from trditus, past participle of trdere, to hand over, deliver, entrust : tr-, trns-, trans- + dare, to give; see d- in Indo-European Roots.]



traditional

\Tra*di"tion*al\, a. [Cf. F. traditionnel, LL. traditionalis.] 1. Of or pertaining to tradition; derived from tradition; communicated from ancestors to descendants by word only; transmitted from age to age without writing; as, traditional opinions; traditional customs; traditional expositions of the Scriptures.

2. Observant of tradition; attached to old customs; old-fashioned. [R.] --Shak

or are you just jumping on the get KL bandwagon :D cause the line is over there smart guy.

so you see, anything carried forward from one generation to the next can indeed be deemed "traditional".

besides, there really isn't anything new anyway in martial arts of the h2h variety. No one is coming up with some revelatory thing, most people are borrowing from or rearranging what has been around for a very very long time.

Firearms put all h2h stuff into the realm of traditional, sport, or ritual long ago anyway. (and even some usages of firearms has become traditional! IE: rendezvous clubs et al)

cheers

[David Jamieson]

in regards to "judo"

please refer to:

http://www.judoinfo.com/gokyo.htm
http://www.judoinfo.com/gokyo1.htm
http://www.judo-ni.co.uk/training.htm
http://home.online.no/~judo/kataover.htm
http://www.kenshindoryu.org.uk/Judosyl.htm

look at how often the keyword "traditional" is used.

Judo is now quite traditional as far as martial arts combat sports , ritual or otherwise is concerned. THere were a ton of other sites too, but i don't have all night to argue this simple point with you.

cheers

[Knifefighter]

Originally posted by Unmatchable


MMmm, tkd by your definition is a modern martial art. They xompete and on an olympic level, spar alot, but also train in a tradtional unalive manner of punching and leaving your arm there than doing a form. So it's a mix actually.

As for Royce Gracie some people on bullshido were saying he trained in kickboxing before even competing in the first ufc ... Royce had not trained in kickboxing before the first UFC's, but began training in some hapkido before his Pride appearances.

[SifuAbel]

Maybe one day everyone on this board will actually speak the same language.

Until then Traditional means......... almost anything apparently.

I have an idea, lets all speak English!!!

[SifuAbel]

What one technique has been invented that is toatlly new and has NO root in anything old and had never been done in the past ever?

[backbreaker]

The deadly secret street ones

[Christopher M]

Originally posted by SifuAbel
What one technique has been invented that is toatlly new and has NO root in anything old and had never been done in the past ever?

http://www.kung-fu.tv/images/640_Wk45CLZTigerLeap1.jpg

[David Jamieson]

nope, that's not it chris.

the guy in bloodsport used that one. not jean claude, but the hung gar guy.

however, he actually leaped on his opponent as opposed to in front of him.

is it just me or does that other guy just look a little shocked that Larry is doing that? :D

-Abel, i took all of that from an english dictionary. :) and in regards to your other question...well, I don't know. I pretty strongly adhere to the idea that there really isn't anything new and we have been in a state of decline actually for quite some time.

[SifuAbel]

"well we all got the same impression'

I know you did. I'm agreeing with you, thilly.

Chris,

I meant in MMA. not in stupid - fu.TV

[Serpent]

ST00, you're being an arse. Kung Lek is right. And I don't particularly like KL, so I'm not buddying up to him! ;)

Here's another example. Choy Lee Fut - undoubtedly a traditional martial art, trains forms (kata, whatever), trains stances, uses exotic weapons, etc. Also, it turns out great fighters.

It was originally formed by combining the teachings of three masters to create one powerful system. So it's MMA. It's a fighting art, it's tested in san da events, yet it's traditional.

Why are some of you guys so intent on divining the TMA from the MMA? Same sh!t, different dunny.

It's all about how you train.

[David Jamieson]

gee serpent, you stated you don't particularly like me on more than one occasion now, as if that will be the final nail in an argument. :D

I was never under the impression that st00 has been right, and I never really liked him in particular either. It was not my intent to stomp him specifically, just to point out the obvious.

but then, this is a discussion forum, not a big Barney fest where "i like you, you like me, we're a happy family" is de riguer.

so buck up kiddies, and let's discuss. St00, put away that hate dude, it looks as bad on youas it would on anybody. It's out of style man, like flared cordouroys that swish when ya walk. :D

cheers

[ShaolinTiger00]

Also, it turns out great fighters.

It was originally formed by combining the teachings of three masters to create one powerful system. So it's MMA.

By far the most idiotic thing I'll read all day, I'm certain.

[Serpent]

Originally posted by ShaolinTiger00


By far the most idiotic thing I'll read all day, I'm certain.
Why? Explain yourself. It's a combination of different systems formulated into one system. It's used in san da sport fighting arenas. It includes grappling and striking.

How is it not MMA by your standards?

Or are you just going to be all arrogant and superior like that and argue semantics?

KL - nothing personal. Just pointing out that I'm not jumping onto a "KL is great" bandwagon. ;)

[David Jamieson]

well, you wouldn't fit, cause my mom takes up a lot of room on that bandwagon.

She's big and she'll pummel all you guys if you make me cry anymore.:D

[red5angel]

gee serpent, you stated you don't particularly like me

bwahahahahaa! Is anyone else starting to see a pattern ;)

[PHILBERT]

Originally posted by MasterKiller
I ordered 7*s brochure, but all he sent me was nude pics of himself with kittens.

At least he didn't have pictures with dogs (http://furonfilm.fanspace.com/h/hasselhoff3.jpg)






Originally posted by Shaolinlueb



dude that site was so poorly designed. i had to strech it across my dual screens to see the whole thing. :mad: you wasted 20 seconds on my life i will never get back.

Versus how many you've wasted on this forum? :D

[PHILBERT]

Originally posted by backbreaker
didn't Jason Delucia retire after he was injured in like UFC 23? Nothing against him, I just don't think he's a big player like say, Royce. I don't see future MMA guys modeling themselves after him, or current MMA guys wanting to learn his 5 animal style. It seems mant kungfu guys want the MMA guys to cross train with them, but the MMA guys just don't see the need. If you think your style is good, fight. AT least Jason Delucia fights, using some kungfu , pankration, I've even heard he does aikido, but somehow I doubt he is an expert, or top level in any, but he is maybe diverse. I don't know. BJJ is known because of UFC, kungfu is not

TMA= traditional martial arts

MMA= mixed martial arts, refers to events like UFC, Pride

http://www.sherdog.com/fightfinder/fightfinder.asp?fighterid=22
His last fight was in 2003. He did plenty of fights after UFC 23 as well. Also, go check out his website. He mainly does Kung Fu, but he has a tape series out on Aikido as well. He is also a member on Bullshido.com (and has posted a few times) so you can always e-mail the guy. He seemed pretty nice as well. And he sure has been in more fights (as far as NHB) then Royce has. The reason being is because he doesn't do UFC anymore, and doesn't do Pride, which are the 2 main names in NHB. If he went and did Pride a few times, and won lots of matches, he might become more popular.

[PHILBERT]

Originally posted by ShaolinTiger00


This is not an issue about "time".

Judo is not a koryu bujutsu, it is a gendai budo. It was developed from a TMA - jujutsu.

The only aspect of judo that is remotely close to TMA is the lip service paid to kata (which is always a 2 man set).

We are a combat sport as stated by the IJF.

There are aspects of judo found in combatives and judo's applications are certainly capable of causing damage.

Yes, but so is Tae Kwon Do, since they train to FIGHT IN COMPETITION even if it is slapping each other like a bunch of pansies. Oh, and as far as tradition goes, let us not forget that you BOW BEFORE YOU GO ON THE MAT, YOU BOW TO YOUR SENSEI, YOU BOW TO EACH OTHER, AND YOU BOW TO A PICTURE OF JIGORO KANO BEFORE AND AFTER CLASS. Sorry, Judo is a traditional martial art, even if it is a combat sport and is used in alot of NHB events quite effectively.

[SevenStar]

seems the main issue is what people define as tradiitonal.

Philbert - not all clubs do all of those things. At one of the judo clubs I attend, they teach more tradtional judo and not competition judo - textbook throws, not modified for competing, etc.

At the other, they arer solely competition based. there, we do not bow to kano or as we get on and off the mat.

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by Christopher M


http://www.kung-fu.tv/images/640_Wk45CLZTigerLeap1.jpg

That guy is wearing shin pads on his hands...

[SifuAbel]

Originally posted by SevenStar
seems the main issue is what people define as tradiitonal.


I think the dictionary does a fine job.

[PHILBERT]

Originally posted by SevenStar


That guy is wearing shin pads on his hands...

No he isn't. It's a forearm guard with a cheap wrist pad. Designed to be able to punch and provide little protection. I own a pair.

http://store.martialartsmart.net/14x030.html

[Vash]

. . . That suxors.

[MasterKiller]

If you train in a combat sport, are you an athlete or a fighter?

[Vash]

. . . Athletic fighter, mayhap? :D ;)

[SifuAbel]

Athletic Supporter?!?!?!?

[Vash]

I think those are called cheerleaders these days. :eek: :D

[SifuAbel]

DOH!

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by PHILBERT


No he isn't. It's a forearm guard with a cheap wrist pad. Designed to be able to punch and provide little protection. I own a pair.

http://store.martialartsmart.net/14x030.html

ack... why not just get some mma gloves?

[Vash]

Because those you could use for something.

[Royal Dragon]

Web Price: $11.39

[PHILBERT]

SevenStar, I own 2 pair of MMA gloves already. Got both pair BEFORE I got those things.

[straight blast]

100,000,000 curses on the sick son of a biotch who posted that David Hasselhoff pic.

Godd@mn that sh!t has scarred me for life.

I hope you're really proud of yourself :mad:

[Unmatchable]

posted what?

[scotty1]

If you train in a combat sport, are you an athlete or a fighter?

Both.

[straight blast]

Posted this sick-a$$ link.

http://furonfilm.fanspace.com/h/hasselhoff3.jpg

View at your own risk. I do not endorse or recommend this pic.