wing chun + tai chi quan?

[king chun]

Hey all, i ve been doing wing chun for a while now, but thought of also taking up tai chi quan, or baqua, as they have different aspects to offer. Any one got any advice?

[manofkent]

Im not exactly an expert on kung fu, but Wing chun and tai chi quan are compleatly diffrent. the best thing to do is just go tryout the classes. i tryed bout 7clubs before i found the one im at currently.

[EarthDragon]

king chun,
if you can find a reputable teacher in your area I highly recomend practicing both arts. they will complete your circle. Be careful not to mix the pricinples but together they can compliment each other quite nicely.

[SPJ]

Good thinking!

Wing Chun trained you to guard the center gate. You have a full stretagy for inside fighting (Li Men).

Ba Gua would be a big leap for you. You walk away from the front and attack from the side and the back of the opponent. (Wai Men) As far as a good teacher, you have to hunt for it. However, if you read Chinese. Look for Chinese book store in China Town. There are many good books published by Beijing University. There are also many vcd available. In comparison, 25 years ago, I studied with a teacher in Taiwan. There is only my notebook.

You start with muddy walk (Nih Tan Bu) and 8 basic palms. My main training is Zhen's Ba Gua.

Tai Ji Quan is a long shot. You may learn Yang's Tai Ji in many adult or public education. There are also free lessons in Chinese culture center. Again, there are many books and vcd in Chinese. you may also search public library for english tapes.

If not, check out my books in the library.

I like Wing Chun very much. If you are good at it, you may vary it in a lot of ways. It is the most popular Wushu in the world, thanks to Bruce Lee and all.

If you have a wooden dummy, use it. You walk around it for Ba Gua practice. You may practice contact a little bit for Tai Ji.

Good luck! A good teacher is hard to find, There are plenty of good students.

[David Jamieson]

learn em both, what the heck it hasn't hurt a whole lot of other folks who do different styles.

don't worry about seepage either, it happens and that's part of what makes your kungfu yours.

[SevenStar]

Wtf? Did KL say something I agree with? There must be a glitch in the matrix...

[SPJ]

Learn from the best.

There are Shi's, Liang's, Tien's and Zhen's Ba Gua. The forefather is Dong Hai Zhuan.
Since my early learning is Zhen's. I know more about it. Mr. Liu Gin Rur is a very good teacher. He serves in Beijing Ba Gua Zhang researche committe. He has books and vcd. You may be able to get hold of books and vcd's.

Basic walks and palms. Basic 8 palms. 8 big palms. Swimming body interlink zhang. Ba Gua sword/broad sword. Ba Gua duels. on and on.

There are Chen's, Yang's, Wu's, Sun's, Chow Bao's etc. Tai Ji.
Since my main training is Chen's. I know more about it. You may look for books and vcd's from Chens' family directly. Such as Chen Zhen Lei and Chen Shao Wan. Chen Shao Wan is touring in US now. If he goes to England, be sure to attend his seminar on Push Hands.

In last 10 years, there are many books and vcd from China. There are Wushu research committee in every province of China. There is no better time to study Gong Fu.

In contrast, 20 years ago, I was taught by teachers one by one. There is only me and notebook. I have to record as much of my learning as I can. Most of my teachers passed away in 1990's. The books and vcd's from China really helped me to review and study more. They are from people who knows the best in each school of Wushu.

What are you waiting for?

[red5angel]

well, if you were to ask the wingchun guys, you'd get a lot of crap about how WC is enough, you don't need to do taichi, they aren't complimentary and so on. As a matter of fact I double dog dare you if you haven't already, to wander over to the WC forum and risk the wrath of the close minded idiots there.

However, I studied WC and took some taichi and I saw no conflict what so ever.
I would say, get a good base on one or the other first, otherwise things might indeed get a little confusing but if you already have good training in one, why not?

[king chun]

Ha........ actually i have posted this same message on the WC forum, and to be honest they were pretty helpful. None of that zen(ophobic) fu crap going on there. However they did advise that i get a secure grounding in WC first.

[SPJ]

Agreed!

If you are very good at WC, that is enough for the most part.

Zen of Wing Tsun Nike girl. The blonde just throw a straight punch, it is over. Her arm is like a wooden dummy arm, WC girl confines it and attacks her at the same time.

Any Wushu if mastered well will beat everyone. However, what if your opponent also use your unbeatible move, then what do you do? Meaning if the blonde also practices WC and is more skillful and faster, what to do?

Wang Lang was defeated by his Shaolin classemate with long boxing. He lost all the time, because both of them practice the same Wushu, his mate is faster and with longer arms and legs.
He was so frustated, he then created Praying Mantis to capture longer arm and strike. He won with a new Wushu outside of his original school.

Same idea, you are good at WC, what if your opponent is faster and more skillful in WC?

Jet Li in "the one" has the same dilema. 2 him practice Xing Yi. The faster him win. The slower him has to use Ba Gua to defeat faster Xing Yi.

If you are good at WC, perfect. If you run into a better WC practitioner, you may have to use Ba Gua or Tai Ji to defeat him, assuming your opponent has no skills in either.

I am willing to give the blonde a free lesson in WC and more WC derivative (ways to defeat every WC moves). The blonde may have a better chance in next duel, with her stronger and longer arms and legs.

No hard feelings! That is how Wushu evolved over 6000 years in China. You are defeated, You practice something else to win.

Watch the Nike film at Nike.com. and think of the Zen of the film, Zen of Wang Lang, and Zen of "The One".

The one wins with Ba gua and loses with slower And weaker Xing Yi.

Welcome to the reality show of Wushu.

The truth is that every thing is defeatible. You do not need to win. But you need not to lose. When you practice any Wushu move, you have to think and practice the countermove in pairs. You would have full understanding of your Wushu, meaning in order to gain some advantage, you give up some disadvantages.

The true WC praticitioner is very flexible like Tai Ji, you temporarily restrain the opponent's arm to be out of the way, you focus on attack with a brief moment of oppoturnity. You think of the centerline. your both arms deal with the opponent's arms then strike. The highest level is to practice all the moves with blindfold on. Enough for now.

[Marky]

Hi King Chun,

I practice wing chun and taiji and the one problem you might run into is that wing chun tends to equalize before either becoming yin or yang (to be as ambiguous as I can), whereas taiji INSTRUCTORS (the ones I know, at least) tend to see only the yin and yang, and not the equalization before it. What it boilded down to for me was that I had been practicing wing chun for four years before practicing taiji, and although I could learn push hands fairly quickly, my instructor has a harder time trying to practice chi sao with me (due in part to my own lack of teaching experience in wing chun...). I felt like I had been practicing push hands for years (and I had, to some degree), whereas he didn't recognize the subtlety of equalization.

That being said, the principles behind the two arts are remarkably similar, and you will almost certainly enjoy learning taiji alongside wing chun, so long as you remain aware of any similarities/differences! Also, try to see the principles that are being applied to a technique... depending on your wing chun experience, you may or may not be able to understand some of the more obvious ideas being applied.

As a final word, always take explanations of principle with a grain of salt! One of my taiji instructor's students tried to explain to the class why the body is structured in such a way during a technique, and although he was CORRECT about the results of the technique, his explanation of the primary factors leading to that result were FALSE (I base this on my own education in mathematics and physics)! There just aren't enough martial artists out there who are willing to admit that they don't know something, so be careful of anyone who can calmly answer all of your questions.

These are just my experiences, so what I've written isn't necessarily the norm! Either way, good luck in your wing chun/taiji practice, King Chun!

[SPJ]

Guarding the centerline is the principle used by most of the Wushu. So it is not unique to WC.

Tang Sao (palms up) for high attack.
Bon Sao for high, mid, low.
Fu Sao (Taming the tiger), Zha Zhong (chop) for low. The basic defense would work if it starts from your center line and the opponent;s arm is pushed out of your shoulder line.

The attacks are Si Zi Quan (flat fist), finger jab (Biu Zi) or palm chop to the nose, neck, temple, rib side, or sternum.

They are straightforward and simple in designs.

However, they are difficult to excecute and too busy to deal with near, close and left and right, high and low. They are good for practicing using both hands. But, in fights, you may have hard time to use both hands at the same time.

Tai Ji is to open your center line to invite a punch. You move to the side and make your centerline disappear. You contact the opponent's forearm and grab and you push and pull. You may also do Tai Ji Qin Na, You may do straight punch, too, but usually Tai Ji punch is a sudden jerk circularly before hitting (Tang Do Jin). Tai Ji attacks are much more diversifed than WC. There are 8 Jins, (Peng Lui Jih Anh Tsai Lei zhou Guo).

I means WC and Tai Ji are similar in the sense that you have to be flexible in both. Other than that,---hum.

[SPJ]

Over the years I was trained with different Wushu. I challenged my father that bullets are faster than fists, I do not want to be a superfighter, so why wasted time to study Wushu.

He said that so that you know your limits or your weakness. I said Huh?

Once I studied WC, I like it very much. Then I was challenged with limits questions.

Ways to defeat WC. Since WC has inpenetretable gate, bypass it. Grab the wirst or above the elbow from the outside. Then I pondered, just about every other Wushu with outdoor stretagy (Wai Men) will give WC hard time.

Mantis: throw a fake high punch, WC Tang Sao, you use your other hand to go under your foreward hand to the outside and grab the WC wrist from the outside, you also move your steps. your free hand may now attack.

Ba Ji: Lan Tzwei.

Tai Ji, grab the wrist and above the elbow from the outside.

Tong Bei: Lei Men Li Pi Hwan Shan. Suan Show Tiao Zhang.

On and on.

What to do for WC ?

You learn Qin Na and Push hands to deal with grabbing wrists and elbows. You turn outside game into inside game.

What about Ba Gua walk, you walk, too.

Now you have it, we just up WC 2 notches.

That is why we study Wushu.

Simply put, many and many Wushu may defeat WC, we have to improve its weakness dealing with outdoor fighting.

Remember your opponent will always bypass a WC gate.

In WW II, German bypassed French Margino(eaun) defense line.

In WW II, US lost the whole Texas division by trying to overcome Anzio Monastery, till the German left.

Wushu lesson number 1, always bypass the strongpoint and strike the weakest link.

Or attack when the opponent is not prepared.
Attack where the opponent is not guarding.