I'm proposing an experiment

[red5angel]

and I need your help.

Since my school has closed (a good chance I will still be able to work out with one or two of the guys from time to time) I had an idea. All the "Do's" seem to get a bad rap. At the Shaolin school there were some pretty good TKD guys. So I have been doing a little research into this Hwa Rang Do thing and I want to try an experiment.
I'm going to check out the school, if it's not too Mcdojo feeling when I do, I'm going to start attending classes with the idea that in a certain amount of time, I should be able to determine whether or not one can learn to fight effectively with it.
They seem reputable, atleast over the internet.
They claim to address all ranges to some extant or another and be a thorough system for self defense.
They claim not just to be a sport fighting school but an honest to god martial art.
I have no negative opinions on them or their schools, and their practices seem reasonable.

So, with that in mind, I need suggestions on how long I should check the school out before I can determine if I could use it confidently in self defense or fighting in general.
My first thought is 6 months. I'm not a good kicker, nor am I fast on my feet, so my learning curve is longer. I'll keep a blog and try to be as consistant in my training and as fair as I can to those whoo I am training with and under.

So, any suggestions? I plan to go check the school out in about two weeks.

[No_Know]

You'll only get up-to five visits before they ask you if it's something you're interested in taking there.

Some might think.

[rogue]

check this out first. (http://www.hwarang.org/)

HRD used to be one badass group but now it's almost a cult.

[Gangsterfist]

You only could find one school in minneapolis, mn? Is that not a huge city? I would think there would be plenty of places to train. I do not live there, nor do I have any knowledge of anyone up in that region that practice MA personally. However, I did find tons of schools through an online phone book, listed here (http://phonebook.superpages.com/yellowpages/C-Martial+Arts+Instruction/S-MN/T-Minneapolis/) I did see a Wu Taiji school there. I train Yang Taiji, but have been exposed to Wu a bit, and liked what I saw.

I know there are some Michigan and Canadian wing chun guys that are decent, perhaps they would know of someone in your area that you could train with. You may want to post a message over in the Wing Chun forum, that is if you are interested in taking it.

TKD is a good martial art if you find the right school. I have sparred some real good TKD guys and they are hard to get close to because they keep you at bay with their kicks. The kicking will take some training and conditioning to make it effective, but it can work. I have taken some TKD techniques and train them just incase I ever need long range fighting, and also I found them to be good entry techniques when bridging the gap from long to short range.

Anyways, good luck in your training,
GF

[joedoe]

Sounds like a good experiment. Keep us up to date :)

[red5angel]

rogue - I'm not sure I understand how your link shows them to be cult? Besides I'mnot worried, it's not a permanent thing for me, just an experiment.

Gangsterfist - it's nt that there aren't martial arts schools in the area. I spend alot of time sort of checing schools out when I can. It never hurts to check things out. I've made a few good contacts and some freinds, and for the most part have found that the majority of these schools are pretty lame. About 98% of those schools listed on your yellow pages link fall into three categories - no longer in existance, mcdojo/exercise imporium, or just bad martial arts.
I don't know if this is the case all over the country but we seem to be swamped here in the Twin Cities with some crappy martial arts schools. I went on my rant yesterday after finding out my shaolin school was closing, because all of the really good schools, that school, a good Japanese arts school, some others I can think of, all end up gong away because people don't have the patience to learn in the traditional style, or to work for it.
I'm currently going to Rick Fayes club from time to time, and that is one of those good schools that has stuck aorund for a while.


So far I haven't been able to dig up a whole lot of informative information on Hwa Rang Do on the internet or through contacts. Alot of the info out there is typical martial arts stuff. I'm not writing it off though, my feeling is this - first Do type schools get a bad rap, I know saying anything that ends in Do, usually makes me grimace slightly.
There, aren't any Shaolin Do schools around here, otherwise I'd go check one of those out to see what all the controversy is myself.
The HWa Rang Do school seems creditable, they have a slight Mcdojo tang to them so far but that doesn't mean they don't have something to offer. From what I understand, they offer a lot of kicking, and that's something I need to seriously work on. They also work on some ground stuff, which I could always use as well. So I figure it can't hurt.
I have a nother school I've been attending abotu once a week for about a year and a half now, so I still got that to fall back on, that's why I don't mind doing the experiment.
I'm also partially doing it because these type of schools get a bad rap in the martial arts world. Yet another one of those divides I'd like to sort of explore to see if there is any substance to it. A freind of mine who is an excellent martial artist, skilled in sport fighting and street fighting. He took national karate for a few years and he never regrets it, still sees his old NK instructors from time to time and has alot of respect for them. I've also only seen TKD used in the street effectively, which leads me to believe something is wrong with the view that Mcdojos are generally crap.
Essentially, instead of just talking, I'm goign to put my money where my mouth is and do what any self respecting martial artist should do before passing judgement, I'm goign to go see what they have to offer.

[Judge Pen]

Originally posted by red5angel There, aren't any Shaolin Do schools around here, otherwise I'd go check one of those out to see what all the controversy is myself. [/B]

*Makes note to self: Quit job, move in MN and open SD school.*

Seriously, I think you have the right idea:

"Essentially, instead of just talking, I'm goign to put my money where my mouth is and do what any self respecting martial artist should do before passing judgement, I'm goign to go see what they have to offer."

Let us know what direction you are heading in.

[red5angel]

Let us know what direction you are heading in.

Well, first I'm going to learn to spel "going" correctly...I DID IT!
Then I'm going to check out this school in the next week or two, once the action dies down from moving into my new house. Like I said I will try to keep a blog going, and try to be as honest and as unbiased as I can on the subject.

[Gangsterfist]

What do you think about these?

http://home.mn.rr.com/wingchun/

Choy Lee Fut Green Dragon Kung Fu Group
Teaching Choy Lee Fut and Southern village style Sil Lum Pai. Includes programs, news letter, events, pictures and links. [Winnipeg and Minneapolis]
http://www.choyleefut.ca

# Chinatown Tai Chi Chuan 1313 5th St SE # 114 Minneapolis, MN (612) 379-1132
# Great River Tai Chi Acpnctr 1940 Hennepin Ave Minneapolis, MN (612) 822-5760
# Tai Chi Chuan Great River 1940 Hennepin Ave Minneapolis, MN (612) 822-5760
# Tai Chi Ctr-The Birthing Way 2561 Burnham Rd Minneapolis, MN (612) 920-9322


This one looks promising its an MMA school that teaches JKD, BJJ, and Muay Thai which are all three pretty good systems. Maybe check them out.

http://www.mmaacombatzone.com/instructors.htm

A guess a bunch of these could no longer exist, but I thought I would give it a shot.

[red5angel]

http://home.mn.rr.com/wingchun/

This was my second wingchun school, and a good one. Good instructors and great students. 2 Things though, Wingchun wasn't challenging me the way I wanted to be challenged, and I had some personality conflicts with the guy this school was affiliated with so I broke with them. Sadly, my freinds from that school have been told not to train with me period or else, and so they have stopped coming around. I guess that's what happens when ego drives you instead of the honost desire to train good students.


The choyleefut school is one I have not checked out yet, but intend to over the coming weeks.

the MMA Combat zone is a good school but not what I am looking for. I'd like to continue learning some traditional stuff if possible. Good school though.

[No_Know]

You should be able to look at one advanced or higher belt class and one lower belts class to see the teaching and the goodness of the students. You should remember the techniques that you can see as useable in the situations you have in mind (street), based on what you fear might beat you. Practice those on your ownso (needle-and-thread) it should take you a day. Go to class to improve.~

[red5angel]

No_Know - I don't believe one class is enough to tell. The shaolin class I went to, if I hadn't fought with one of their instructors, wouldn't have impressed me the first couple of weeks. It wasn't until I started to feel what it was doing for me, a month to a month and a half later, that I realised that it was extremely useful. It wasn't until I had some of the techniques down and were slipping them into my shadowboxing that I felt comfortable that I could get that stuff to work.

But that's part of what I think is the problem. See, one guy meets another guy from an art, and they spar, or show off some forms or techniques or whatever. Or that one guy walks into a school to check it out. Maybe that particular day is't a good one to obeserve, maybe his mind isn't open or it's just a bad day for the other guy/school. You walk away making a lot of assumptions on an extremely limited experience.

Now certainly after a few sessions, if they are really bad or really good, I could make some sort of judgement on it, but over time I think is where you really get to know it. I know in most of my classes, we might practice something that night, a drill or a technique, then not work it for a couple of weeks. Things like that.

No, to be fair I think it has to be over an extended period.

[ShaolinTiger00]

All the "Do's" seem to get a bad rap.

judo is "kungfu"(hard work).

[red5angel]

judo is "kungfu"(hard work).

:confused:

[yenhoi]

0 - Teacher: What is the quality of THE teacher, the guy actually teaching you. What is the quality of your relationship. Can you progress?

1 - Training atmosphere: Is it "sifu says", or is it "lets go try it."

2 - Number of other students training, their ranks, their fitness levels, and their skill levels.

3 - Real power training: do they train all the time with pads, or all the time punching air, or how much of both.

4 - Progressive sparring: Do they sparr? What levels of contact and actual resistance are involved?

5 - Teaching/Learning/Training/Drilling ratios: is the "WAY" they actually train"REALISTIC" enough for you? Can you progress?

I think the main thing for you to benefit from during these incursions is touching hands with many other people. If the majority of the pool at this particular school are sub-par, and the few guys that can challenge you, wont for whatever reason, or are never there, this that or the other, then you are probably wasting your time.

IMO it is unlikely that you have found one of those rare HRD schools that will not be wasting your time. These are the main things I think about when visiting places around these parts.

:eek:

[red5angel]

Soem good points to look for Yenhoi, I'll try to address them as I observe.

I'm trying to remain unbiased here. My gut reaction is that it's going to be another Mcdojo, my hope is that it will be something more, even if I walk away. The place looks nice, and I know they do some of the things I am looking for.
My guess is that I will walk away having learned a few tricks, but walking away anyway.