Turning on the heals or on the toes?

[Sharky]

Discuss.

All i wanted was some RICE CAKES! Now? WE MUST BATTLE.

[Martial Joe]

I use my whole foot...

If anything different I would not go to toes...

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I am Sharky's main man...

[edward]

if you turn on your toes, you move your center....

you turn on the entire foot technically, however the weight is absorbed by the heel, however the middle of the foot is still the center

[Sharky]

"if you turn on your toes, you move your center"

thats a good point man, never thought of that, played

All i wanted was some RICE CAKES! Now? WE MUST BATTLE.

[wingchun.com]

You use the whole surface of the foot.
If you turn on your "heels" only, you have no ground connection and will be pushed easily.

[rogue]

What about when you're wearing sneakers on a rough but solid surface, such as carpeting, sidewalks, etc?

"Americans don't have the courage to come here," Mullah Mohammed Omar, leader of the Taliban


There is only one tactical principle which is not subject to change; it is, 'To use the means at hand to inflict the maximum amount of wounds, death, and destruction on the enemy in the minimum amount of time.' Patton

[Martial Joe]

That doesnt matter...he is not talking about sliding easier he means you will be pushed over easier...

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I am Sharky's main man...

[Martial Joe]

Stand on your heals and then stand on your whole foot...

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I am Sharky's main man...

[Novox77]

What you want to practice is the structure that gives you the most advantage. Using your entire foot to turn (middle of your foot is pivot point) maintains a good stable stance. Naturally, on a surface that inhibits the motion of your feet, you may need to modify your advancing step and stance turn, but only minimally so that not too much structure is sacrificed. For example, people who have fairly even weight distribution in their sideling stance may need to adjust the distribution so that the back leg supports more weight. This allows the forward foot (foot in the direction of your stance turn) to pivot quite easily, no matter what kind of surface. Personally, I'd try to always step the same way, even if that means wearing down my show faster :)

In some our our street defence training, we practice every-day looking stances that closely resemble the IRAS stance and the advancing (fighting stance). 2 reasons for this: you are in a stance that is fairly familiar to you and you can initiate a wing chun attack from these stances easily; the other reason is so that your opponent won't suspect you know any martial arts and is more likely to assume you to be of no harm.

[whippinghand]

I use all 3 ways of pivoting: toes, heels, middle.

It depends on what I'd like to accomplish.

[CLOUD ONE]

Turning with your heels, toes , middle, big toe, little toe. Is it not a 'by-product' of your rooting? Do you twist in Chum Kiu from the center or the feet?

[Sharky]

yes it does matter.

at my old wing chun school i was turning on my toes, but now at my new school i'm being told to turn on my heels, and am having a ***** of a time emptying my cup, ok?

All i wanted was some RICE CAKES! Now? WE MUST BATTLE.

[whippinghand]

It CERTAINLY matters.
Reread the second line of my previous post. It's only 2 sentences long...

[wingchunner]

When you go into the stance used in SLT you pivot on the heels first then the toes. That's the only time you solely pivot on those points. When pivoting the entire body, I turn on the sole of the foot. This is difficult at first, but it must be practiced. However, the center of the body initiates the turning. Whole body unity.

Marty

Be true and loving.
http://wingchun.ereasons.net

[whippinghand]

"When you go into the stance used in SLT you pivot on the heels first then the toes"

Not true. That is how it appears...

[CerberusXXL]

In my wing chun school I was taught to only shift on my heels which I'm finally starting to do.
To me shifting on my heels has been especially difficult since I came from karate (Kyokushin, gojuryu, and shotokan) and we always shift on the toes.

[azwingchun]

I also agree, I use the whole foot, even when I open SLT. I think the only time you really might change this is if you were on a sharp incline or for some other reason due to terrain. But for the most part I always shift with the whole foot. ;)

[EmptyCup]

mostly heels for me...but with shoes on it's slightly different...

btw, it's spelled H-E-E-L-S for chrissakes...

[Sharky]

lol, an uncharacteristic typo, so sue me

All i wanted was some RICE CAKES! Now? WE MUST BATTLE.

[Abstract]

well, when I turn on the 'heals' EVERYONE feels better!! hahahhaahaa..

sorry i couldn't resist....

to answer the post, i was taught to always turn from the heels, waist, to move the whole body. Which was tricky for me at first, coming from a psuedo-wrestle-boxing style i was used to using. That plus all the basketball i play, CONSTANTLY on your toes there....but i've gotten ALOT better with practice... ;)

-------------------------
In mildness is the strength of steel

[jameswebsteruk]

Im a total heel.

The chalice from the palace has the pellet with the poison,
The vessel with the pestle has the brew that is true!

[fa_jing]

Three more questions: regardless of whether you turn through the heel, whole foot, or toes,
1. do you pick up your feet when you turn, or do you constantly make contact with the ground?
2. Do you turn one foot before the other, or simultaneously?
3. does the power in the turn originate from the feet, or the waist?

Me- I turn through the heels

1. pick up
2. one before other
3. feet first, then waist.

[dzu]

I try to shift on the K1/Bubbling well point located just behind the ball of the foot and before the arch begins. IMO shifting should go into the opponent's CoG to disrupt his structure and balance.

When you stand normally, the CoG is directly supported over the middle of the feet. When the knees are bent and you sink down, the CoG shifts forward slightly to maintain stability. This point is the K1.

When I shift, I want to maintain that stability so that I can use the ground to help redirect the force. Without the ground, I am in danger of being uprooted. Shifting on the heels moves the weight and CoG slightly back and breaks the connection between the feet and the ground. Shifting on the toes brings the CoG too far forward.

Dzu

[Wei Sui]

We are taught to to use heels, like a winshield wiper. I am used to executing it via middle, but I'm exploring the "heel" use now.

*************************
Dai yut tow dai :)

[Bessho]

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="-1">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Planet Wing Chun:
You use the whole surface of the foot.
If you turn on your "heels" only, you have no ground connection and will be pushed easily.[/quote]

Then you don't understand the idea behind turning on the heels. there are good explanations available ... maybe even on your own website.

[WCFish]

I agree with what dzu says with regards to the body COG, but it is also important to note that when you stand naturally, about 60% of the body weight is taken by the heels and 40% by the balls of the feet. Therefore by changing into the wing chun stance with bent knees etc. the weight tends to more evenly distributed between forefoot and rearfoot. Hence the whole foot should be used to maintain that distribution. :)

[wingchun.com]

Where are there good explanations?

Use just your heels to turn and you are NOT balanced. A good Wing Chun man will take your balance as you have already contributed to giving it up. Why help your opponent with bad structure?

You want to have the body weight over the arch of the foot. I think Dzu was mentioning the details, or something similar to our approach, but in any case you should not be just using either the heel or the toes alone.

Doing so means you do not have balance. You are either going backwards (heels) or going forward (toes).

Is it harder to develop that skill? Sure. But that's why it is Kung fu after all.

[popsider]

Heels, I did train with an instructor that pivoted on the toes but I didn't like it, I felt it makes you unbalanced.

[whippinghand]

"Is it harder to develop that skill? Sure."

It is harder to develop balance from pivoting on the heels. ("But that's why it is Kung fu after all")

[Sharky]

I experimented. Try doing a turning punching on your toes and hitting a wallbag. You'll get pushed back onto your heels, and the punch will be weak.

Do it on the whole foot/heels, and it's a differnt story, more powerful, and your COG stays the same, and force goes into the punch.

Cool

All i wanted was some RICE CAKES! Now? WE MUST BATTLE.

[whippinghand]

There are too many factors to consider... punching a wall and trying it just isn't enough...