the wing chun religion

[foolinthedeck]

if wing chun was a world religion it would be christianity.

so many sects, always arguing about who carries the torch or who is the creator.. whether wing chun evolved from fighting or was divinely created by shaolin..

so which wing chun group corresponds to what part of christianity? Is Ving Tsun the catholic church? Yip Chun the pope? who constitutes the WACO element? JKD protestants? who's the gnostics? the arians? the cathars? the methodists? the mormons? the jehovahs witnesses?

yes its a silly topic and its not meant to offend anyone (ptl) but maybe it sparks some different ways of looking at wing chun? on a serious note it may be worth seeing some similarities.

"Hmm Julius lets feed another christian to the lions!"

[lawrenceofidaho]

Questions facing every religionist:

Is everything my sifu/preacher says, a (near) perfect model of reality? Is everyone who doesn't agree, "wrong"?

Do I interpret the sacred teachings literally, and "to the letter" (fundamentalism), or do I trust my own intelligence to be my guide? (and maybe it could be that I imagine my own intelligence has "the final say", -but if I am too lazy or don't really care enough to question much of anything, then just how significant is this supposed ideal?)

[Ultimatewingchun]

Hey foolinthedeck...your no fool, are you?!

I'm a Gnostic.

[FooFighter]

Foolinthedeck

I was not offended by your analogy of wing chun to religion and it does make sense. I have never met a wing chun sifu who wasnt dogmatic about his views of wing chun. All are dogmatic, but some are just more ill mannered than others. Once the doors are close people truly speak their minds. I am sure because of these real differences, there shall be no real solution to the political problems with the Yip Man clan.

I do not believe there was ever a Yip Man's torch to carry.

I do believe wing chun is a fighting art and whether it evolved from fighting or was divinely created by shaolin is irrelevent.

As a skeptic and as a doubting Thomas, I do not follow or accept any WC organization. So Ving Tsun is not the catholic church? Yip Chun is not the pope? The ones who labeled themselves as Grandmasters and has fought in the past for their position are the one who constitutes the WACO element? The JKD Concept Camp is the X American generation who forget their original cultures, language, and mother. The gnostics are one who teaches their art without calling or thinking themselves as "sifu". The arians are one who think their art is traditional and the other modified. The methodists are Jun Fan Gung Fu camp. The mormons are Wing Chuners in Utah. The jehovahs witnesses are the Wing Chun sifu who have a TV show on Public Cable.

[Gangsterfist]

Originally posted by lawrenceofidaho
Questions facing every religionist:

Is everything my sifu/preacher says, a (near) perfect model of reality? Is everyone who doesn't agree, "wrong"?

Do I interpret the sacred teachings literally, and "to the letter" (fundamentalism), or do I trust my own intelligence to be my guide? (and maybe it could be that I imagine my own intelligence has "the final say", -but if I am too lazy or don't really care enough to question much of anything, then just how significant is this supposed ideal?)

Good point. I would say no, everything your sifu tells you should give you an idea of what the answers are. The final answer is up to you to learn on your own. Just like Christianity, where the stories in the bible are just stories to make a point and teach a lesson. They should not be taken litterally. Your sifu is your guide, not your god.

A big part of kung fu is self discovery. One can only be taught so far, and one can only teach so much. The rest of the path must be learned by experience on your own.

[lawrenceofidaho]

Originally posted by Gangsterfist


A big part of kung fu is self discovery. One can only be taught so far, and one can only teach so much. The rest of the path must be learned by experience on your own.


That means facing your fears & insecurities instead of having the comfort of an authority figure to "be responsible" for your education & growth. -This is a scary idea for many people, and therefore, not acted upon as often as it could be. :(

[anerlich]

This sort of thing goes on in all sorts of vocations, avocations, and pursuits.

Try UNIX or any other sort of programming for a while, hang out on some forums and newsgroups, you'll find the same sort of religious wars.

A coworker once spent fifteen minutes telling me some amazing stories about a canary fancier's assocation his father belonged to ... a web of opposing factions, entrenched philosophical positions held far beyond logic or sanity, people drunk on power, graft and corruption, branch stackings, shifting alliances and betrayal. And it's about little birds!

[yuanfen]

Wing chun intra mural squabbles are not all that bad.

Try pure bred dog shows sometimes- big squabbles in every breed.

And- a chess tournament? I drove my sons around to them years ago.. A chess tournament is a gathering of real anti-communitarians.

[Nick Forrer]

There was a story in the paper recently about a prize winning mouse being murdered at a mouse breeding show and how this had exposed a long history of bitter factional infighting within the mouse breeding community. My favourite line was - the mouse breeding communiy has decided to close ranks and is remaining tightlipped at this time, preferring instead to deal with the problem in house rather than wash its dirty laundry in public.

It seems the more marginal the interest the more fanatical the enthusiast!

[yuanfen]

An ex wing chun student of mine was into Arabian horses breeding and competition. He raised some kind of Arabians called Aswan-s.

No matter how hard he tried- he came in second- alsways losing to the same "first". He found out later the depth of the politics involved. He got out of the horse world.

Some "politics" is inescapable. Of course distnictions of degree and kind are keys to civility.

[Gangsterfist]

Originally posted by yuanfen
An ex wing chun student of mine was into Arabian horses breeding and competition. He raised some kind of Arabians called Aswan-s.

No matter how hard he tried- he came in second- alsways losing to the same "first". He found out later the depth of the politics involved. He got out of the horse world.

Some "politics" is inescapable. Of course distnictions of degree and kind are keys to civility.

Yes, but you do have a choice joy. You can choose not to involve yourself in such petty politcal arguments. No one knows your wing chun abilities better than you. No one knows what benefits you gain from your training but you.

However, just to argue against myself, and lot can be learned from others as well.

[Alex Wallenwein]

wing chun/tsun/tzun is the the divinely inspired path to internal squabbles.

[kung fu fighter]

if wing chun was a world religion it would be christianity.

so many sects, always arguing about who carries the torch or who is the creator.. whether wing chun evolved from fighting or was divinely created by shaolin..

so which wing chun group corresponds to what part of christianity? Is Ving Tsun the catholic church? Yip Chun the pope? who constitutes the WACO element? JKD protestants? who's the gnostics? the arians? the cathars? the methodists? the mormons? the jehovahs witnesses?

yes its a silly topic and its not meant to offend anyone (ptl) but maybe it sparks some different ways of looking at wing chun? on a serious note it may be worth seeing some similarities.

"Hmm Julius lets feed another christian to the lions!"


Hey Brian Scanlon!

nice to see you are back online

[taai gihk yahn]

if WC is a religion, it's definitely the shizzle, seeing as it was able to resurrect something that was dead for over 6 years as opposed to only 3 days! (better than a Doo Wai fly, that's for certain)