Real hardcore diet

[trevorstalker]

So...

In the upcoming weeks there's gonna be a tournament in my MA school (it's sort of a first draft for the upcoming state championship). And there are a lot of students undergoing this hardcore dieting plan in order to lose weight so they can fight in lighter categories. These guys haven't been eating real food (rice, pasta, red meat, you name it) for the past 3 weeks, they've been eating only fruits and fruit juices. And the cardio workout... that has sky-rocketed! There's this one kid that claims he went from a 68kg to 56kg! One of the black sashes that weights around 80kg is already on a 67kg (nearly my weight). I know that probably most of that weight is muscle mass saying bye bye, but man, they're ripped to shreds (bruce lee's style!). Un-f-ucking-believeable! (well, at least I'm amazed!)

Well, just to share...

[fa_jing]

That's crazy - you should continue to eat protein as you lose weight.

[Vash]

Indeed. Protein ingestion is most certianly a must. And it won't make you gain weight. It's just healthy.

[trevorstalker]

My thoughts exactly guys!

But I think that (to an extent) they want to lose muscle as well. I'd certainly not undergo such regimen (unless required otherwise by my sifu), but that's me.

Besides, I'm an ecto by nature, no way I'm gonna lose my hard-earned lean mass that way... :D

[Vash]

. . . why the fug would a body want to lose muscle? Sweet Crissmas. I feel anger at the thought.

Unless these guys are herculean in their physique and just want to be thinner, then W to the T to the F?

[blooming lotus]

this has been my argument on going for a while here..strength without all that excess muscle that, especially in a comp siuation, comprimises your endurance and speed fibres and limits your rom....but we already hashed that one out right :p ;)

[trevorstalker]

. . . why the fug would a body want to lose muscle? Sweet Crissmas. I feel anger at the thought.

Vash, that's why I said "to an extent". Anyone would rather lose fat than muscle, that's a fact, but the point here is overall weight. It's not about losing fat or muscle, it's about losing weight.


Unless these guys are herculean in their physique and just want to be thinner, then W to the T to the F?

Not at all.

Take this black sash friend of mine for instance. His nominal weight is 80kg (with a considerable amount of tone already) at 1.75m, most of it being muscle mass. Whenever he is "off-season" he's developing speed/power/endurance/you_name_it on this weight. When it comes to down to the states championship or any other championship for that matter, he'll keep practicing, but he will go on a "need to lose weight" paranoia, so he can fight on lighter categories (he usually fights on the Lightweigths - up to 67kg).

That way he's fighting lightweight with a medium weight "grip" (lack of better term) delivering more power than a regular lightweight (an year-round lightweight I mean).

You know, that practice is not at all uncommon. Take Acelino Popó for example (WBO World Champion on the lightweights). He weight around 70kg year long, but when it comes to the World Series he drops to 59kg - and probably a lot of muscle mass is lost.

[Toby]

Originally posted by blooming lotus
this has been my argument on going for a while here..strength without all that excess muscle that, especially in a comp siuation, comprimises your endurance and speed fibres and limits your rom....but we already hashed that one out right :p ;)
Not to get into another argument with you BL, but strength doesn't equal muscle mass. And also, "speed fibers" are Type IIB fibers.

[Vash]

BL . . .

Nevermind.

TS:

My bad. I didn't even think about making weight for competitions.

[Ka]

I agree with Trevor that this is very common training format for Ring Sports.When amateur boxing my training weight was around 70kg but I was in the 63.7 kg division. Most Boxers I knew trained in a weight range well above their division.Although 80kg to 67kg seems an excessive jump,usually the drop was of about 5-7kg at the max.This is goal orientated around a specific sport.

I would question people preaching such weight loss as part of taper/training unassociated with high level compettion.
It does not mean it is a healthy lifestyle format or aid for the development of functional strength for a variety of situations.
Its been said before, High Level Comp Athletes may not equal Healthy Functional Individuals or training formats.

Guess it comes back to your goals.

[blooming lotus]

Originally posted by Toby

Not to get into another argument with you BL, but strength doesn't equal muscle mass.
COLOR=blue]exactly, because that's what I said[/COLOR]


And also, "speed fibers" are Type IIB fibers.

are you sure they're not type 1....I could be wrong, but it's irrelevant anyway

[Toby]

Originally posted by blooming lotus
are you sure they're not type 1....I could be wrong, but it's irrelevant anyway *paraphrasing* Type I are endurance athletes, Type IIA are bodybuilders, Type IIB are sprinters, powerlifters, Olympic lifters (fast twitch fibers i.e. speed of muscle contraction is an important factor, not resistance to fatigue).

It's not irrelevant because you're always talking about strength not being important but speed is. Speed is commonly using the same training methods as strength training. Anyway, off-topic. I just enjoy correcting your mistakes :D.

[blooming lotus]

dude..its me that corrects your mistakes!! even if you're so far up your own as* that it takes me a while to get you the information


take a break sherlock

[Vash]

lol @ bl

[Toby]

Originally posted by blooming lotus
dude..its me that corrects your mistakes!! Oh, I'm sorry, you're right. Type I fibers are speed fibers. How stupid of me. Thanks for the correction. :rolleyes:

[IronFist]

Duh, Toby. What were you thinking :p :D :cool: :cool: :p :) :D

[trevorstalker]

Vash

My bad. I didn't even think about making weight for competitions.

No worries Vash. :)

Ka

I would question people preaching such weight loss as part of taper/training unassociated with high level compettion.

Ka, aside from getting pi$$ed of not eating :), what are the long-term side-effects of this kind of practice?

[Ka]

The prefect example was the recent Danny Green fight,despite winning,he was clearly dehydrated to the point of collaspe.

Dropping this much weight suddenly and then forcing the body through a 12 round bout will have numerous negative effects on the body systems.I am not going to speculate on long term efffects of repeatively droping such weight as I simply don't know of any reseach into it.Although I would consider studies on binge dieters.And getting p i ss ed off at being hungry.

Like I said depends on your goals,I am not argueing that it doesn't get results,but those results arn't in line with the healthy functioning of the human body.But then it would be petty boring if we just trained and never went into comps wouldn't it.

[Pork Chop]

Sounds like what I did for my first fight.

6 months of oatmeal, dried fruits, trail mix, watered down fruit & sport drinks, and the occasional spoonful of chunky peanut butter.
Dropped from 230 to 187.

By the time I fought working out was a nightmare.
Sparring was a nightmare.
I didn't have good workout sessions that I'd be amped for, it was all "doing enough to be here, little enough to survive".
Sparring felt like I was gassed from the second we started.
I'm not talking a few punches into it, I'm talking almost falling on the guy as soon as we touched gloves.
Noticed my strength dropped on weights, some days much worse than others.
I also noticed that single shots would affect me a lot more.
Not trying to blame my KO on this, but I remember being in a situation where i was getting rocked about every sparring session; specifically a few sessions with the boxing coach.

I think I took mine too far tho.
Cuz to a certain point i felt better.
It was just beyond that point, I didn't know how lighten up and still keep the weight loss on track.

I was back up over 225 within a few months of 187, so you can see how permanent it was.

Lesson learned: performance first.
Right now I'm training, and except for my crazy propensity for getting sick; I feel a lot better.
True, I'm having trouble getting back under 200, but I am just going to push to the extent that I still feel alright.
I obsess over this issue way too much, but I don't think dropping down to the lowest possible weight class is all it's cracked up to be; think Roy Jones Jr vs Tarver.

[Ford Prefect]

And while you're at it Toby, you might as well retract your illogical and, dare I say, idiotic statement about how bulk doesn't necessarily mean strength. What are you smoking, man?

[blooming lotus]

ok...you had me on the fibre thing for like a whole 3minutes.....going through a serious custodybattle for my little girl, so excuse me if I became human:cool:

[Toby]

Ford, consider it retracted.

BL, even though I think you're full of ****, I wish you good luck with your legal affairs. My kids are the most important thing in the world to me. Good luck with your daughter.

[blooming lotus]

and I think you are unknowledgable

cheers

[Toby]

... which is why I wait with bated breath for enlightenment from you, oh all-knowing one.

[rubthebuddha]

enough.

trevor -- feel free to start a fresh thread with followup on this one, but this one is closed.