How is jjj different from bjj?

[IronFist]

I'm under the impression that a Brazillian learned it a long time ago from someone in Japan, brought it back, and then did their own thing with it.

So is that right or wrong? And what is the difference (now) between jjj and bjj?

[SevenStar]

bjj comes from judo, not jjj. It's more like the kosen judo stuff, which is ground based. jjj is primarily a standing art - it was an empty hand battlefield art, and included strikes, throws and locks. SOme styles had ground work, but likely not as extensive as bjj... it's a broad generalization though, as there are over 725 known styles of jjj... Judo was based on three of them - tenshin shinyo ryu, kito ryu and one other that escapes me right now.

[SevenStar]

also, due to the lethal nature of the techniques (sound familiar?) traditional jjj didn't spar. rolling in bjj is akin to judo randori.

I hear that there are jjj schools today that randori, however.

[ShaolinTiger00]

Judo was based on three of them - tenshin shinyo ryu, kito ryu and one other that escapes me right now.

Judo's ground work came from the Fusen Ryu, who soundly whopped the Kodokan's ass in a competition. Kano being a great mind, soon adopted them into his school and groundwork became so popular that they had to change the rules of competition to get people to stand back up and fight.

This is where the history gets tricky..

Maeda was a judoka who had earlier studied jujitsu and who's family was tied with the Fusen Ryu. He was sent as an emmisary to promote judo around the world. But he was not happy with his partner and decided to go at it on his own. As he soon found himself fighting boxers and wrestlers of the western world sometimes with a gi on and other times without, he started developing his own methods of effective judo and being so familiar with groundfighting knew that this was his best chance against these large men he fought.
Maeda traveled to Brazil as part of the Japanese colonization project. There he met the Scotish mr. Gracie and he agreed to teach his son "how to fight" we can only presume that it was not formal Kodokan judo but a mix of effective "combat judo". but he called it jujitsu not judo. Probably because of it's informal instruction and streetfighting style, also at the time "judo" was really little more than just another name for a school of jujitsu. it wasn't until later that all jujitsu schoold would merge under the judo umbrella.

for more info on Fusen Ryu, do a search on a remarkable man named Yukio Tani, EJMAS has a great story on him.

[Internal Boxer]

So with the Gracies being Scotish it should be SJJ !!!!!!

[Oso]

I hear that there are jjj schools today that randori, however.

There are. We randori on a regular basis as well as stand up sparring w/ no ground work. Or, stand up w/ throws but no follow to ground. just depends on the night. The style is Kwanmukan jujitsu but I'm not well versed in their history. The man that runs the school is also a great mind, imo, and sends his senior man (who teaches most of the classes) out to every seminar or training camp that comes close to us. He also has a catch wrestler come in twice a month to work with us. I train there because he doesn't care about the distinctions between styles, only in decent training for his students. We recently just got some drillwork from a Machado seminar the senior guy went to.


So, that article you posted is basically accepted as fact?

[phantom]

I have heard that some danzan-ryu jiujitsu schools do randori as well.

[Unmatchable]

jjj is very good. I took it before and it taught me many locks useful for restraint and law enforcement. Instead of bashing the guy's head with your fists and kicks, or rolling with them in mud you can just put a joint lock on them and quickly make them think twice about fighting you. Very good for preemptive offense.

Sometimes there is just not enough room to take the fight to the ground (like in a bar or class room or jail cell for instance) so to calm the guy and if he is your family member you have to lock him up standing.

[Sim Koning]

Shao Lin Chin Na is much like japanese Jujutsu, with most of the emphasis on standing locks, though there is ground chin na in styles like eagle claw. Every JJJ technique I've seen so far I've already seen in Kung Fu, so I do think they are realated arts.

I looked at a BJJ self defense book by the Gracies in a book store one day, and was suprised that the emphasis was on standing locks. This was a book on real street defense, not sport fighting, so maybe BJJ and JJJ aren't that different after all.

[SevenStar]

just as there are only so many different ways to punch, there are only so many different ways to lock someone. Naturally, things will look similar. There's no verifiable proof that it cam from china...

as for bjj and jjj being similar, they are very different. There is a self defense side to bjj - not all schools teach it - but it seems that training format and focus are completely different.

[Sim Koning]

yeah, good point, since those locks existed in Pankration in ancient Rome. Though I have read stories about how some Samurai learned the art of "seizing a man" (Chin Na) from a Chinese travler. In fact I think there is a statue of the guy still in Japan

[SevenStar]

yeah, I recently brought that up on another thread - that was one of the stories of it's origin. A kenpo master from china learned three locks from a chin na practitioner - he never mastered the system, only those three locks the chin na guy showed him. When he went to japan, he told three men of a chinese system of locking a man and showed them the three locks. The three men then expanded on the idea and founded three different styles of jjj. the man is chen gimpin.