I lost

[Ray Pina]

I gased out 1:30 into the second round and am embarrassed to say I couldn't continue.

Now, after feeling like **** about it, I can view it objectively:

I was initially worried about the guy's Tai kicks, but they weren't a factor. Neither were his hands. I only took one real blow, a right cross in the second round.

What was an issue, is that in the clinch he would press down on me and give me knees. Now, I've trained what to do here a thousand times, but from exhaustion I just used my elbow to block the knees but didn't escape. He swept be I think about three times, one of which I brought him down with me... those were energy killers.

In the end, I was pleased with my technique. I think I took good care of his kicking and punching, but if I'm going to compete in there I have to condition like a mother..... I thought I was conditioning, but these guys are in great shape.

I'll have video in afew days and will post.

Big lessons: need more condition and clinch work

The straight kick takes care off all the other kicks.
Can't rely on heavy punching with headgear and gloves, need more endurance.

My girl said something to me afterwards that cheered me up. If my technique failed than I should be bummed, because I invested so much in it. But in the end I failed because of my conditioning, but that can be improved ... technique too.

The guy was tough, he took some heavy blows like a champ. I couldn't put him down and in the end I gased out and felt like I would soon lose the ability to defend myself. I'll post the vid when I get it.

Ray

[MasterKiller]

Have you heard that it was good to gain the day? I also say it is good to fall, battles are lost in the same spirit in which they are won.--Walt Whitman Way to go. Just getting in there takes some nutz.

[Merryprankster]

congrats on stepping in to the ring. nobody can call you an internet warrior, ever.

without sounding like a ****, you didn't seem like you were training hard enough, and this highlighted that weakness.

next time you'll do great because you know what needs to get taken care of,

***quick note--he probably only took one or two good shots as well. IME, if, in 9 minutes, my sparring partner and i landed 4 or 5 good shots each (total) we were doing pretty good. that's real life...it's hard to hit somebody hard where it matters.

[Oso]

good on you.

sounds just like the self evaluation of my recent match.

look forward to the video.

[Pork Chop]

Great job E-Fist!
Congrats for doing what many can't, and spend endless hours speculating on!
I'm sure we'll hear from you again.

[Ray Pina]

Thanks guys.

I know I only pressured him on two occassions when I had him against the ropes. Other than that, it was most clinch work and he bettered me there.

We are actually trained to go down on our own when we feel like we're going to be thrown to continue the fight from there. But you get no points for that so I struggled like hell not to be thrown and that's where I lost the steam. The only thing that hurts is the back of my neck;)

My teacher has always stressed against conditioning, saying I'm 30 and aging so how do I condition against the 22-year-old athlete who also conditions. I believe this. But, in the ring with gloves and headgear, I know see condition is even more important than technique.

So I'll continue to go to my master to improve the technique (very happy with it) but condition myself on the outside. Most of my other fights were won or lost in the 1st round, using lighter bag-like gloves. These San Da guys are conditioned. I need to get myself to where I can go 5 rounds, so I can show what I have in 3.

Good fun though, and the organizers are good folks and the ref is great! And this from the guy that lost.

[Ralphie]

I was in a tourney recently, and even though I won my first 2 matches, I lost my last one. It sucks, but I learned a lot more in my loss than my wins. After I compete, my game gets better because I practice at the things I'm not so good at. That kind of self introspection is what "internal arts" are all about. For me, I don't get that unless I go through a heightened external event like competition.

[Christopher M]

Congrats man; sounds like it was a good investment.

Were you using xingyi mostly?

[Merryprankster]

with respect to ring fighting, your master is wrong. i also believe he is wrong re: conditioning overall.

self limiting thoughts are self fulfilling prophecies. get them out of your head and be the best overall that you can be. You'll only gain by being in shape.

[SevenStar]

good job. you got in there, which is what matters, and learned something, which is even more important.

[David Jamieson]

You LOST nothing!

You have learned and therefor you have gained.

But I think that is what everyone here is saying, so get that into you with a heaping helping of congrats and apple pie!

Good on ya man. The first one is the hardest.

cheers

[Judge Pen]

I was always told that my losses do not define me any more than my victories. Which is good in my business.

[Suntzu]

I know see condition is even more important than technique. stick that on your bathroom mirror.... refridgerator.... work computer.... wherever you can see it often.....
So I'll continue to go to my master to improve the technique (very happy with it) but condition myself on the outside. make sure you have someone there to REALLY push you.... it's too easy to say "i've had enough" when you are by yourself................. isn't san da fun :D

[Pork Chop]

Originally posted by Suntzu
make sure you have someone there to REALLY push you.... it's too easy to say "i've had enough" when you are by yourself................. isn't san da fun :D

*looking like a kid who was just handed a tank & a license to drive it * :D

[Suntzu]

:eek:

what happen to yall the other night... tried to call.... got voice mail....... someone attacked my car :D

[unkokusai]

Originally posted by EvolutionFist
My teacher has always stressed against conditioning, saying I'm 30 and aging so how do I condition against the 22-year-old athlete who also conditions. .

Aaaaa! Does your teacher hate you?

[unkokusai]

Originally posted by Kung Lek
You LOST nothing!

You have learned and therefor you have gained.



Come on guys. He said he lost the match. Its great to be encouraging, but don't blow too much sunshine. A loss is supposed to feel like **** so you work harder next time.

[Pork Chop]

Driving to Fells point, dude was in the middle of the middle lane of Pratt wearing all dark colors in a darker area of the road...
I tried to hit him, but I think I mighta just clipped his shoe.
Needless to say when his drunk azz finally looked up and saw 4 cars speeding toward him; he looked about as shocked as we were @ him appearin outta nowhere coz he looked like he dove for safety.
Glad I didn't turn him into a speed bump, but it shook me pretty good.

We went down to look for the bar you were talking about.
Walked up and down broadway, back throughout that divided section, and up & down Fleet.
When we didn't find it, or you guys, we did what came natural.
I mean, I was with Raphael, where did you THINK we wuz gonna end up? :D
Anyway, inside latin palace i didn't get signal, so I didn't get your message until way late.

Sorry bout dat.

[lkfmdc]

hate to say it, because I like Evolution, but yeah, I'm going to also disagree with your teacher...

So it's better to have NO CONDITIONING against a guy who is younger and is thus naturally just in better condition ??

"three cheeseburgers a day plan to total fight supremecy" plan? :D

You have to be in the best shape you can be. Against younger guys, it's about being more intelligent, more experienced and pacing, not conditioning is just plain dumb

Sounds really like the worst in TCMA, "just let your Chi do the work".... :eek:

[David Jamieson]

"just let your Chi do the work"

bwahahahaha.

yes, that is funny and so true in way too many schools.

Hippy freaks :mad:

[Suntzu]

I mean, I was with Raphael, where did you THINK we wuz gonna end up? :D :D :D

i don't think Pharrol will hang out with me and dude again :eek: :D

back to the regularly scheduled programming....

[backbreaker]

Definately, I'm always hearing things ( not just in martial arts) like well that's not my strength so forget it. That's all the more reason to work on it. One of my MA teachers would always say to work on your weaknesses or what you aren't good at.

[MasterKiller]

Originally posted by lkfmdc
Against younger guys, it's about being more intelligent, more experienced and pacing, not conditioning is just plain dumb Two bulls standing on a hill, overlooking a herd of cows. Young Bull says "Hey, pop, why don't we run down there and fizzuck one of them cows?" Old Bull says, "Why not walk down and fizzuck them all?"

True story.

[Pork Chop]

well he don't drink and his ideas on women are a little err different

i got to hang out with genki sudo

[Pork Chop]

Originally posted by MasterKiller
Two bulls standing on a hill, overlooking a herd of cows. Young Bull says "Hey, pop, why don't we run down there and fizzuck one of them cows?" Old Bull says, "Why not walk down and fizzuck them all?"

True story.

... I am a nightmare walkin
a psychopath talkin....

[lkfmdc]

Originally posted by MasterKiller
Two bulls standing on a hill, overlooking a herd of cows. Young Bull says "Hey, pop, why don't we run down there and fizzuck one of them cows?" Old Bull says, "Why not walk down and fizzuck them all?"

True story.

do you have listening devices in our gym? we use that ALL THE TIME.....

[MasterKiller]

Originally posted by lkfmdc
do you have listening devices in our gym? Yes. :eek:

[Suntzu]

he's a nice respectable young man...... we are not... especially after a few rounds of free shots........ :D genki sudo he is.....

[Pork Chop]

no, you gotta see raphael's friend...
if he grew a goh-tee he could almost pass...
he's a dancin nut too...

[Pork Chop]

wait....





FREE SHOTS!?!?

[Musicalkatachmp]

Come on guys. He said he lost the match. Its great to be encouraging, but don't blow too much sunshine. A loss is supposed to feel like **** so you work harder next time.

Hey guys I have lost lots of times...<bends over> cmon kiss it baby kiss it...

[Ray Pina]

Actually I understand my master's point on conditioning. He isn't saying sit aorund. He's 63 and stronger and healthier than me, and if you think he's a tree hugging hippie, just come visit the school. I go at him like I went at that guy and he knocks my head off.

His point is, if you think you are strong, don't rely on lifting because you're not the strongest guy. You're not that fastest guy.

We're not that type of school where you come in and do a half hour of warm up. We're just not. Condition is for outside and I've taken it for granted because I've always gotten by (lesser competiton at "kung Fu" tournaments and lighter gloves). Now I have to pick it up. I actually don;t want to travel all the way to Chinatown to do cardio work, I want to get more info.

I have the discipline to pick up my training at home. Without that basic discipline there's no MA.

But generally, I agree my master's philosophy. Condition yes. But if I was in better condition, I think I would have beaten that guy (nothing against him). I guess that proves both points though. And I also realise that was that guy's first San Da fight as well. The competiton is actually quite good there. This opportunity is going to make us all better.

[backbreaker]

Chi blasts all the way;) shhhhhh. Qigong

[Volcano Admim]

so basicly what you are saying is
some dude kicked your ass in front of your girlfriend

[David Jamieson]

Hindsight is 20/20 evolution fist.

no need to relive it and torture yourself. just shore up the areas where you were weak and keep at it if you want to continue.

at least the guy wasn't macking on your girl afterwards :D

volcano, I blame you for that last remark I made. you @ss!!!

[Serpent]

Originally posted by Volcano Admim
so basicly what you are saying is
some dude kicked your ass in front of your girlfriend
You can always rely on Xebs to take the situation at hand and rip its guts out for everyone to see.

Good on ya, Evo.

[red5angel]

e-fist, I know you've talked a lot about your training being traditional and there is an issue I have with traditional teachers and their way fo thinking sometimes.

I'm hearing way too much as of late about these old guys telling their students not to weightlift, not to worry about anything but practicing kungfu.
Now, if your practices are intense, and over atleast an hour long, then I'd say you get plenty of cardio conditioning for a street encounter. But if your going to compete, that opens up a whole new can of worms. Most competitors lift and run and basically do some pretty intense workouts a few times a week. Tha means to compete, your going to have to do both at a pretty intense level. I don't agree with a lot of traditionalists that say lifting is bad, as long as it doesn't get out of hand it should be beneficial. Running, I'd recommend some sort of regular cardio work with intervalled high intensity work as well. those are all basics for most competitors.

[joedoe]

Efist, comiserations on your defeat. At least your had the cojones to get in the ring, and you have the guts to do it again. Most of all, you had the guts to get on here and let everyone know. Better luck next time.

[Ray Pina]

Regarding girlfriend:

My girlfriend has actually gained a pretty good eye since we've been together. She said right off the bat that's the sloppiest she's seen me fight. She thinks it might have been due to my concussion the week before. I don't think it was a factor personally, just nerves and exhaustion. She also thought my technique was better in that I really didn't "get my a$$ kicked", I got it leaned on and swept.

I liked this San Da thing. It pushed me harder physically than I've ever been pushed. I want to condition myself and refine my technique to a point where it shows in the ring. This will improve me a lot.

And regarding getting beat up in front of my girl, not a few people were under the impression that though beat in the ring, I'd have no problem taking the medal from the winner out on the street (meaning if it was bear knuckle and conitnue on the ground instead of up and down, ect, ect). But that's beside the point. The guy deserved to win! He fought smart, wasn't sloppy, and demonstrated discipline and control.

Overall, those were the best MA I've been around in a while. There was tough little 15 year-old Russian kid in my locker who fought. It wasn't fake MA with robes and plastic toys, it was guys taping up and pychic up to go out and fight. I like that, it's inspiring.

[Suntzu]

it was guys taping up and pychic up to go out and fight. I like that, it's inspiring. indeed....

[David Jamieson]

nice marketing ploy to sell tapes by the way:rolleyes:

[Merryprankster]

keeee-rist.

there are production costs associated with hiring a professional crew to come in and tape things, then the editing... of course they charge for the tape.

[jun_erh]

My teacher has always stressed against conditioning, saying I'm 30 and aging so how do I condition against the 22-year-old athlete who also conditions. I believe this. But, in the ring with gloves and headgear, I know see condition is even more important than technique.


My teacher has always stressed against conditioning, saying I'm 30 and aging so how do I condition against the 22-year-old athlete who also conditions. I believe this. But, in the ring with gloves and headgear, I know see condition is even more important than technique.


My teacher has always stressed against conditioning, saying I'm 30 and aging so how do I condition against the 22-year-old athlete who also conditions. I believe this. But, in the ring with gloves and headgear, I know see condition is even more important than technique.

[MaFuYee]

haha you lost.
*points and laughs*

[Ray Pina]

Yup. Sure did.

Chillin out this week. Then the only fight on my mind is the next one.

[David Jamieson]

jezuz-

merry I realize that ya bone head.

here's what I saw go down.

efist writes us all with a perfectly open note "i lost" and in that message says, will post footage soon.

later, he posts the link to the footage in another thread.

its a 100+meg download. Linked off of a page that says "ray fight here"

anyway, the dl won't complete. I figure "eh, it's busy, i'll try again later when it ain't cacking"

I go back to try again and there is a NEW page at the link saying... "oh, to much traffic, blah blah blah, send money for the tape if you wanna see it"

ergo my "nice marketing ploy" statement.

You are always such a c0ck no matter what I say merry.

poo poo on you! I don't love you anymore.

[Merryprankster]

pavlovian response to your past postings.

however, i do also admit my errors.

oops--sounds like you may be justified...

[Suntzu]

if that's the case........... greeeeeaat marketing ploy..... well done......

[David Jamieson]

well, not that great when ya treat us like a bunch of suckers!

I've said it before and I'll say it again, we ain't rubes and we don't like being treated like rubes.

so, I ain't buying the tape!

and because of your level headed response merry, I can se my way through to making up with you. :p

But you have to sleep in the wet spot.

[lkfmdc]

if he sells anything associated with my event, I'll need to wet my beak, either that or two large Italians will visit him and lean on him in the clinch :D

[Mutant]

Way to go, getting in there and going for it EF, thats great experience. Its awesome, isnt it?!?

For me, my first loss in the ring was far more valuable to my training than my first win had been.

Right now it probably seems like its all about conditioning and that thats the main thing to success in San Shou/Da. I was thinking that right after my first loss.

But the funny thing is that its really NOT the main thing. Sure its a big thing. Its the first major hurdle you needs to be overcome in order to play. Without that, you have no real game. Its really just the price of admission though, and its a lot of work.

In the best fights that you'll see, with the best fighters in the sport (not me yet, i'm still a work in progress myself;-), they have to have a high base line of conditioning, thats a given. Beyond that is where the technical part really begins, and thats where it really starts to get fun. Which is good; it does not get boring! Some of the lesser fights that you see, it does come down to conditioning and two guys trying to out-tough eachother, but thats not what its all about.

For guys like Marvin, its all about skill, technique, and fighting smart; conditioning is just a given. He said that, i'm not just speculating.

And as far as age goes, some of the best fighters in the world in K1, boxing, etc, are in their late thirties.

Hehe, sorry, not try to be all pedantic, but just wanted to comment on some things being discussed.

Thats great youre doing San Da, have fun training!

Mutant.

[Ray Pina]

The link tells everyone to go to Mr. Ross's website and buy the entire nights video from him.

The school I train at has zero offiliation with his, we get not a penny and that was the furthest thing on my mind.

I posted my fight to get feedback.

[Suntzu]

well, not that great when ya treat us like a bunch of suckers! speak for ya self....... i feel far from being mistreated..... he|| i've been known to do a lil marketing myself......

Sept 4th 2004
Rexplex...... be there...

[fa_jing]

Hey MutantWarrior! Great Post!

[lkfmdc]

E- Fist, I was joking of course :D

Most people who have worked with us feel we treat them pretty good actually, and I've done shows since 1994

[Ray Pina]

Yea, the event was great. Good people all around.

Mutant:

Don't think for a second that I look past technique. Technique is crucial. At the moment, I believe my technique is in place to win at the beginning San Da level that I'm fighting at, but my body couldn't provide the juice to make it happen.

Also, inexperience in that kind of event led me to over extend myself mentally and physically, which also led to the gas out ... not to mention a few extra pounds packed on during the winter (too much work travel and no surf trips + new girl = winter coat).

When I see the tape I see my failure to use leverage in the clinch. I have that technique, but when in the clinch I was thinking "alright, let me catch my breath." But the other guy did a wonderful job on pressing down on me making it stressful (hard to breath) and keeping me on the defensive.

The more I think about it, that guy fought a very smart fight. I fought a very amatuerish one.

With that said, I was so so pleased with my ability to get in on him (though he help a lot) and avoid any serious shots.

To fight a well conditioned guy of that size and not get bruised up is self defense.... now I need to hone the skills and condition to so I can bring a beat down next time:)

Now that it's all behind me I feel better. I went into that fight with the attitude, "this is it, tis is where it all starts" but I'm sure evryone does. And it still was that. I learned. I plan on achieving a lot in MA. I see what needs to be improved.

[Suntzu]

I went into that fight with the attitude, "this is it, tis is where it all starts" but I'm sure evryone does. :D i subscribed to the "how the he|| did i get into this mess"... "why the he|| am i doing this"... and "how did i let this funny talkin dude talk me into this crap" train of self talk....

[Ray Pina]

That's funny. My nerves were at their worst the Monday before the fight because my head was still a bit loopy from a heavy overhand my sparring partner got me with .... that's the heaviest shot I've taken in about 4 years.

[Pork Chop]

Originally posted by Suntzu
:D i subscribed to the "how the he|| did i get into this mess"... "why the he|| am i doing this"... and "how did i let this funny talkin dude talk me into this crap" train of self talk....

LOL
I felt the same way, except I had to add the additional:
"Where the heck is the other guy?"
and
"I can't see sh!t!"

[Mutant]

EF, i wasnt trying to imply that you don't have the highest value for your technique in training, you've made it clear that it has been your priority and i agree with you.

But based on reading your reaction, and recalling my reaction after 1st fighting san shou, like "holy **** this is strenuous!", i just wanted to post a reminder that its not all about conditioning, even if thats the first order of business. think of it as part agreement, part sentiment, and part ball-busting perspective. thats all.

And man, i hear you about working too much.... i'm still at work now at nearly 9:00pm another 12 hr day, this sux, i should be at the gym... i'm gonna have to go out for a beer to make myself feel better.:p

[GunnedDownAtrocity]

im not quite sure how, but my 4 year old managed to paste a couple posts from this thread into an excel doc. there aren't any shortcuts to excel on the desktop either. only game shortcuts are permitted to be on my desktop.

just thought it was neat.

[edit] correction ... it was just mutant warrior's post on conditioning not being the absolute end all be all for ring fighting. the whole thing though .... including the part that is after the sig and stuff.

[Mutant]

Originally posted by GunnedDownAtrocity
im not quite sure how, but my 4 year old managed to paste a couple posts from this thread into an excel doc. there aren't any shortcuts to excel on the desktop either. only game shortcuts are permitted to be on my desktop.

just thought it was neat.

[edit] correction ... it was just mutant warrior's post on conditioning not being the absolute end all be all for ring fighting. the whole thing though .... including the part that is after the sig and stuff.

Smart kid; he's obviously constructing a database of my posts.