Strange results with endurance work

[Ford Prefect]

I don't know what it is about high rep stuff, but I always feel so much better and healthier when I am just doing endurance work like with KB's, BWE's, and cardio. I've been doing this expirment for 4 weeks or so now to see how I'd function without a commercial gym, and I've had some interesting results. Not only do I feel so much better than I do when I focus on maximal weight, but oddly enough I've gained a little muscle and lost a little fat.

That 30 hour shift at work with little food that caused me to lose weight definately has something to do with gaining it again, but I didn't think I could with the protocols I've been following. I've gained a few pounds in muscle and even shed a little bit of fat. I haven't measured with calipers yet, but since I'm so low bf%, it's visible when I just lose a little.

Here is a sample of what I've done this week:

Monday
24 kg KB clean and press x 10:00 (31)

Superset x5:
-Ab wheel x5
-Powerwheel x10

Superset x5:
-Pull-ups x10
-24 kg KB front squats x5

24 kg KB Snatches 4x10

Mountain Bike x30:00

Tuesday
Run 2 miles
Swim 1000m
Run 2 miles

Rucksack hike in evening (36 lbs for 1:30:00)

Wednesday - OFF

Thursday
BWE Pyramid 1-10-1:
-Pull-ups x1 (100 total in pyramid)
-Push-ups x2 (200 total)
-Sit-ups x3 (300 total)
-Bar Dips x1 (100 total)
in 25:00

Run x 3 miles
-1 mile in 7:00
-2 x 1/4 mile sprint followed by 1/4 mile jog (2:00 pace)
-4 x 1/8 mile sprint/jog (1:00)

-----------------

Tomorrow I plan on doing do KB leg stuff and swim. Maybe Run or bike again.

Nothing that would make you think I'd gain muscle. Especially considering that I'm an ectomorph and I was fully prepared to shed more than a few pounds when I started this. All in all I'm pretty pumped about my progress. I have lost a bit of maximal strength in the bench though. I tested myself last week and my 1RM is down 15 lbs already. I haven't tested the squat, deadlift, snatch, or clean yet. Oh well. I'm happy with the way I feel, so I'll take a hit in maximal strength for a little quality of life. ;) I still plan on doing a cycle of maximal work every so often to give my joints time to recover from the high-rep stuff.

[IronFist]

Sarcoplasmic hypertrophy?

Maybe you have a long term pump from the endurance stuff?

You feel healthier from doing it? Maybe you feel healthier from not eating as much. I dunno.

[blooming lotus]

like I've been trying to say, because you're now focussing on training your fb (endurance fibres) you are experiencing hypertrphy in those, accounting for the extra weight loss. this is the kind of suggestion I was making ( or ah..trying ) in earlier threads...but you told me it wouldn't work right?

I guess your probably feeling better because A. it's a different release of "happy chemicals" and b. you're giving yourself deserved variety

cheers and enjoy the chop up in routine

[blooming lotus]

so 300 pushups is crazy ha??? lol....I'm not so big on resistence but in stead I do up to 500 push-ups....feels good right ?? ;) :D

[blooming lotus]

Originally posted by blooming lotus
so 300 pushups is crazy ha??? lol....I'm not so big on resistence but in stead I do up to 500 push-ups....feels good right ?? ;) :D

Ps.bodyweight -training is waaay under-rated!!!!

[FooFighter]

Blooming Lotus:

Why is Body Weight Exercises is under rated?

[blooming lotus]

I believe it';s cause so many folks have their heads too far up their own a*ses to see the new data Jim...

resistence wrk has received so much poopularity in conjunction to strength training that it's really hard to give die-hards new information....it works...it's just other things work better ...like body weight training and endurance body weight traing;)

Ibf??

[Vash]

I've never seen anyone saying bodyweight exercises don't work. A nidan at my school does nothing but bodyweight work. Hits like a mule kicks. Can do a solid 20-30 chinups. He's at 185. But, I can lift more in all the core lifts than he can.

Bodyweight exercises kick arse. Every couple of cycles I would switch over to a bodyweight routine. I lost a little bit of strength, but my muscular endurance shot up some.

Try both in your routine. You have to tailor your training, though, to your goals.

[blooming lotus]

which on these boards is ma performance right??....

and just so we're clear...all our "experts" have been on back like a painful heameroid up a butt over every argument I made in this regard.....whatever and only long as it suits what everyone is saying ha...strength in numbers and all that jazz :rolleyes:

still standing on my laurels

bl

[Serpent]

You just don't get it, do you, bl.

I thought you were a genius.

:rolleyes:

[Ka]

Quality Routine,Definately noting down that one.
Interesting to see how you feel and perform when back into Max Strength routine?

Ford
How have you found Club Bells?Any routines that you could see fitting into the above format?Any comparasions to KB,simularities differences?Question open to anyone exposed to CB & KB.
Reason : have opportunity of getting second hand well priced 20 pounders.Still uncertin as to whether they will be of benefit to my training(re Climbing).Particularly interested in feedback relating to ROM of shoulder/rotator cuff strengthening/stretching(improvement, advantages etc).

BL good to see you haven't changed:rolleyes:

Originally posted by blooming lotus
b. you're giving yourself deserved variety
cheers and enjoy the chop up in routine
Since your so into variety and diversity then your traininng would include strength& power periodisation correct?

[IronFist]

That's why professional bodybuilders and powerlifters do bodyweight exercises.

Oh wait a sec... :eek:

[Ford Prefect]

I believe Iron is right in that it is sarcoplasmic hypertrophy due to the fact that during the KB exercises I'm doing numerous sets of 8-12 of exercises like shoulder presses, squats, weighted pull-ups, dips. Even more so than when I normally do a "bulking" routine.

I didn't think that sarcoplasmic hypertrophy under those conditions was strange. What I found strange was still undergoing it when I had increased my aerobic activity by quite a bit with jogging, swimming, biking, bwe's, and kb's, which would normally prevent my muscles from undergoing any hypertrophy gains at all. When I'm trying to bulk, normally I have to cut out all cardio or else I'll be SOL. I just found it strange to gain mass with as much as I'm doing.

I even tested my 1RM for squat today and it too was 15 lbs less, but I felt I could have gone another 10-15 lbs if I wanted to push. I even did my old 1rm of goodmornings for 3 reps. That was good news.

Iron,

I always feel healthier when I do cardio-vascularly demanding work. I'm eating the same if not a little more than I have in the past few months. I don't know what it is. Just a personal thing because I know guys that feel great after doing a heavy power session.

Ka,

The clubbells have been relegated to warm-up duties for the most part and acessory work when I'm bored at night. They are great grip builders and shoulder girdle strengtheners.

BL,

See above. You're still wrong. ;)

[blooming lotus]

you know...you guys just aren't even worth talking to anymore




goodluck with your non-martial pretty boy persuits

peace

[Serpent]

Originally posted by blooming lotus
you know...you guys just aren't even worth talking to anymore

Do you think this means she'll finally shut up and leave us alone?

[blooming lotus]

That's exactly what it means

cheers

[Xebsball]

Originally posted by blooming lotus
goodluck with your non-martial pretty boy persuits


BL dont be saying that in a dissing maner... you see, some of us are fat and stuff and we wanna look good... for the ladies... cos they ladies ignore us and call us fat pigs behind our backs if we dont work out towards pretty boy persuitings...
im not just saying this, ive tested this in real life.
and then as a dude i had to think: how important is it for me to say i can hit oooooh so hard and oooooh so fast but i cant make out with the ladies, wheres my priorities? punching dont produce love, punching destroys. Yoda says wars dont make great warriors.
oh well, thats all im saying.

[blooming lotus]

Originally posted by Xebsball


Yoda says wars dont make great warriors.


exactly!! so I'm just going to stfu, training, studying ...talk to the martial artists on some other threads and let these dudes speak sh*t for all their worth :D :cool:

[IronFist]

Originally posted by Xebsball
how important is it for me to say i can hit oooooh so hard and oooooh so fast but i cant make out with the ladies

:D :D :D

[Serpent]

Originally posted by blooming lotus
That's exactly what it means

cheers
Woohoo!

(I'll believe it when I see it!)

[SevenStar]

Xebby, what you need is some confidence and self esteem. Even a fat man can get some play. I know several fat guys who have frickin hot women...

[IronFist]

Originally posted by SevenStar
Xebby, what you need is some confidence and self esteem. Even a fat man can get some play. I know several fat guys who have frickin hot women...

Or if you don't want to get confidence and self esteem, getting money would probably work well, too.

[blooming lotus]

yah...for some bull**** relationship with a b*tch who probably doesn't even like you....


good call dude..good call :rolleyes:

[Serpent]

Better than being lumped with a b!tch like you.

[Ford Prefect]

lol @ BL! You crack me up.

[blooming lotus]

LOL@serpent

thank you for feeling so passionately ;) :D

[IronFist]

Originally posted by blooming lotus
yah...for some bull**** relationship with a b*tch who probably doesn't even like you....


good call dude..good call :rolleyes:

Yeah, cuz I was being serious.

[blooming lotus]

now you're all just acting like little kids who got sent to bed early

:rolleyes:

[Xebsball]

oh i dont know
im screwed

and you kids, stop fighting

[scotty1]

OK. Since this thread has degenerated into name calling I think I'll revive it with a related endurance issue.

Part of our style's training is some static posture training.

After how much time (do you think) does this type of training become endurance rather than strength training? Couple of minutes?

Lets say when you start, you can't hold the posture. After a few months, you can hold it more comfortably each time, your're stronger (generally) and you've experienced some muscular growth and weight gain (all of which happened to me).

Now - if you start pushing the times the postures are held for into endurance training territory, is it possible you would lose some of the strength you had gained? And along with this, some of the muscle mass you'd put on?

Is it just a myth, or are muscles trained for endurance kind of slimmer than muscles trained for strength?

Go.d I sound like a fu.cking ignoramus. :)

[dwid]

Well, the way I understand it (and Ford or IF or somebody who knows more about muscle development than I do can correct me if I'm wrong here) is that the trouble with spending a lot of time on deep stance training is that 1) ultimately you are primarily conditioning slow twitch fibers, which can hurt you in terms of speed and power, which rely on fast twitch fibers, and 2) deep stance training is primarily conditioning for that stance - your ability to stand with your knees bent almost 90 degrees may not cross over to a vast improvement in endurance at 45 degrees.

Make sense?

[scotty1]

Yeah totally.

None of our stance work is THAT deep. And it has crossed over into my general performance in terms of leg strength in a boxing style stance. My legs just seem more solid and dependable!

Thanks for the info though.

Its not my only method of training, but it is a core method, and I'm interested in tweaking it in terms of time spent vs. benefits gained. It seems unlikely to me that the longer you spend in stance the more benefits are gained, I think there's a cut-off point.

My question is really to do more with the endurance versus strength side of things (for my practical use) and if there is any difference in terms of shape and size between muscle trained for strength versus endurance (out of interest).:)

I don't really want to get into a general stance training debate. :D

[dwid]

It seems unlikely to me that the longer you spend in stance the more benefits are gained, I think there's a cut-off point.

Agreed.

Further, I don't think training for strength will necessarily result in any great size increases, but I would also wager that stance training is low-impact enough that it probably won't increase muscle size either.

I put on weight really easily, and have been lifting for a while now, and really haven't noticeably gained muscle mass. I think most adults have to go to a lot of trouble to really put on muscle mass.

[Ford Prefect]

Scotty,

That's a very hard thing to measure especially when it comes to a very low intensity exercise like stance training. The beginner may undergo some strength gains (note that isometric poses only strengthen that angle of flexion +/- 15 degrees), but past the novice level it would mostly be a pure endurance exercise. It depends on quite a few factors like neuromucular coordination, energy system development, etc etc.

[scotty1]

True.

I believe though that since I started the exercises I have put on weight and some muscle mass, although that may be in conjunction with other training that I do for tai chi, even though none of that should really be building muscle mass either.

In fact since starting tai chi I've put on nearly a stone and a half. Nearly 10kg I think.

Ah well. Maybe its my age (24). Although it has been noted by my teachers that the postures I mentioned tend to make skinny guys like me fill out.

[blooming lotus]

I think peeps hereare starting to confuse themselves with detail and info -overload

yes, endurance fibres are smaller

I wouldsay maybe 5 sessionsmax, you're fibres willbegin to change, so after this time it is fair to assume you begin to loose bulk

taiji made you put on weight???


I am huge on endurance but i beg to differ I loose enough strength to matter...of course ford and iron will disaggree ...but they not living in this body


can't f*ckwith fact