REVENGE! Movie geek guide to Kill Bill 2

[Chang Style Novice]

http://www.nytimes.com/2004/04/11/movies/11KEHR.html?adxnnl=1&adxnnlx=1081605767-1K0xH/HFZfN5OLQsz4xrPw

Username: kfmagazine
password: qigong

[Kristoffer]

........any spoilers?

[Chang Style Novice]

I guess a little. Extremely minor stuff, though. it's mostly a discussion of QT's sources and influences. In fact, I'll announce a couple of them right here to show how minor.

Carradine plays a flute!

There's a shot of a brightly lit desert through a dark door!

Budd has a poster for the movie "Mr Majestyk" in his home!

Stuff like that.

[SevenStar]

will go go come back from the dead to fight again?

[Chang Style Novice]

Dunno. Doubt it.

[norther practitioner]

There already thinking Kill Bill tres.:D

[The Willow Sword]

if bill gets killed in vol 2 then why would it be kill bill 3?

better title it kill bob or kill todd or kill yourself.:rolleyes:

[Chang Style Novice]

Uma's Toes - The Legend Continues

[Mr Punch]

Yeah, it'd have to be called 'Kill QT Before He Disappears Up His Own Arse': that movie was a crock of self-referential bs. Irony? How's about an original script... instead of a chewed-up bunch of cliches masquerading as encyclopaedic movie homage? That'd be ironic! Is it writer's block, or just too long staring at the video screen impanted in his own navel? Either way... it's a crock!

[PT-Kali]

I think the movie was excellent. It was kinda cool to try and pick up what scene or music came from some other show or movie...it's just entertainment...

what's CROCK is all the BS the Japs put out with Godzirra and all those weird-@ss space flicks

[MasterKiller]

The beauty of Pulp Fiction is that it is a movie about people who believe in nothing, so their dialogue, actions, and even their names (according to Butch) mean nothing at all. The only thing that does mean something is what's inside the briefcase, and that's only because Marcellus Wallace has assigned a value to it. So when Samuel L. has his epiphany, you understand that he is in crisis because he finally understands this.

Kill Bill was a movie about nothing, and therefore meant nothing.

[Vash]

Pulp Friction: Curse of the Squirting Grapefruit.

True story.

[mickey]

Greetings,

Pulp Fiction was a creative rip off of another Chinese movie that I saw back in the late seventies. I think QT lived just outside of Chinatown, so the Chinese theatres were like a second home to him.

I was expecting Kill Bill to be a major bomb. I was floored by it. I think it should have been named "Genre." That's all it is about. I put this film second to "True Romance", a film written by QT.

mickey

[Mr Punch]

Originally posted by MasterKiller
The beauty of Pulp Fiction is that it is a movie about people who believe in nothing, so their dialogue, actions, and even their names (according to Butch) mean nothing at all. The only thing that does mean something is what's inside the briefcase, and that's only because Marcellus Wallace has assigned a value to it. So when Samuel L. has his epiphany, you understand that he is in crisis because he finally understands this.Yep. Fine.

But it had a sizzling script. The script was mostly soooo natural a way of speaking when it needed to be, I thought, and as a writer, I'm sure you'll appreciate that to do that so seamlesslessly is bloody difficult. The parts of the script that seemed a little overblown were immaculately tailored cliches.

And as for it being about people who believe in nothing, I think it was existentialism at its best. The people do believe in something: whatever they are doing for the sake of it. Vincent in his job and having a good time, Butch in his scam and his woman, Pumpkin and Hunnybunny in their making it big and in each other, Wallace in his omnipotence... and Jules's epiphany comes from realizing that the meaning is not real to what he does, it has no relationship to what he is, and could just as well be attached to him.

Deep? Er no, I don't think about this ****, I just woke up and splurged on my keyboard! :D But basically, I find PF entertaining on all kinds of levels. The script, the timing, the camera angles, the music, pretty much most aspects of the direction, the characters, the actors... you get the picture.


Kill Bill was a movie about nothing, and therefore meant nothing. And by extension, it was nothing.

It's a poor excuse for not writing a script. It's just listing cliches, visually and verbally. It's like looking at someone's favouite schlocky MA movies wish list.

It's like with music for me: very rarely do I find a track that's almost completely ripped samples entertaining... but I like a lot of tracks with a couple of shared riffs, an echo of another track, even a repeated theme.

I like Sonny Chiba's part and most of the parts with him in in KB, but I think that's because QT was using part of the medium of MA movies that he loves. and letting Chiba get on with it. Although, having said that, I'm guessing Chiba stuck pretty much to the script, although maybe helped out with it at that point.

I loved the anime sequence. That was cool (it was also longer in the Japanese version). How much of that was QT? I think it added something to the some of the genres of anime, whereas the movie overall adds nothing to my enjoyment of even the ultimately cheesy MA movies, in fact, it pales in comparison as solely unimaginative and derivitive.

But even all that **** about KB being a movie set entirely in the movie world is frankly a load of bs. Of course it doesn't exist in a vacuum. For example, it's one of the only Hollywood movies I've ever seen that uses the real Tokyo as a set... with no interaction at all. The argument went that it was QT's homage to scene setting in stuff like Enter the Dragon, where you have a wide shot of HK to start with, but in Dragon, there were other wide shots, rather than purely set work. Now QT said something about wanting distance from reality, the dreamlike quality: but in the twenty-first century this is neither achievable or desirable. So his other wide shots like the desert where the wedding was, just jarred with me. A dramatic setting, but too short a time and no ****ing point in taking it out of the set work at all.

QT can't do dreams. He should stick to the gritty sound effects, the hard talking, the interaction with scenery of Marcellus Wallace getting hit by a car, of the LAPD officer getting his ear cut off, the brains all over the back seat.

And he should stay the **** away from other languages. Nobody could have even understood wtf the Bride was twattling on about. And there's no way that yakuza **** would have gone down with Oren Ishii either, so even QT's stock in trade of pseudo-realism failed in KB.

Oh, and have I said yet, I didn't find it entertaining. On a purely visual level it was OK, but not new enough or even referntial enough to other movies I know to get me back in the cinema for 2.

[Mr Punch]

Originally posted by PT-Kali
what's CROCK is all the BS the Japs put out with Godzirra and all those weird-@ss space flicks Relevance?

[Kristoffer]

Kill Bill was good, nuff said

[GeneChing]

Did you read our e-zine piece on KB.V2 (http://ezine.kungfumagazine.com/ezine/article.php?article=479)? No spoilers. As for the anime sequence, that was ripped off from Gogol 13, but ripping off stuff is the hallmark of HK film, so the last thing I'm going to to is bust Tarantino on it.

[norther practitioner]

I pitty the day that i have to explain to myself what I am entertained by...

[MasterKiller]

Originally posted by norther practitioner
I pitty the day that i have to explain to myself what I am entertained by... Introspection is an important tool for an ontological understanding of the world.

[dwid]

Introspection is an important tool for an ontological understanding of the world.

It can also be inaccurate and misleading.

I'm not sure people have access to all the relevant information necessary to fully understand why they enjoy what they enjoy. Instead, they may find the most apparent cause and attach to that as conclusive, which I'm not sure is necessarily productive.

Sometimes you can introspect too much about why you appreciate art (whether it be a Klimt painting or a Tarantino film) and can lose the visceral feeling of it in the process.

[MasterKiller]

While I agree, at the same time, I think people too often cling to the visceral emotion and fail to understand or even recognize the events that led to that experience; then, when the moment passes and the visceral excitement fades, they are left with an ephemeral and shallow experience.

If one understands the context of a work, and the process the artist envokes to lead you to a point, whether visceral or intellectual, a person can use the art in question to gauge their own experience; and thereby, better understand why they were affected, which can be much more valuable in the long run.

Art is an intellectual pursuit. Entertainment is a visceral one. Sometimes they cross paths, and when they do, it's worth exploring the ramifications.

[dwid]

While I agree, at the same time, I think people too often cling to the visceral emotion and fail to understand or even recognize the events that led to that experience; then, when the moment passes and the visceral excitement fades, they are left with an ephemeral and shallow experience.

Well said.

Though, for some, the ephemeral and shallow experience is preferable to the deeply disturbing conclusions they may come to as to why they enjoy things like, for example, Japanese rape anime or Backstreet Boys music.

;)

[Chang Style Novice]

I prefer Japanese Baskstreet Boys Rape Anime.

To be serious, though, lots of serious thought goes into making a work of art or entertainment, even one as derivative and shallow (my opinion only, based exclusively on the first installment) as Kill Bill. It's one thing to enjoy the effects of the experience without effort, but to create those effects takes considerably more doing. And, I believe that a fuller understanding and greater pleasure awaits those who explore the creative process.

Or put another way: writers not only have higher standards for excellent writing, but they get more out of it than non-writers. The same applies to the practice of any art.

[norther practitioner]

And you all just demonstrated that point to a tee.

[Lowlynobody]

Hey, guys, the doktor just called. He said its time for you to feed your head with some more LSD-25.

[Chang Style Novice]

My buddy Leonard posted this on his blog about KB2

WAYS IN WHICH "KILL BILL VOL. 2" IS NOT AS GOOD AS "KILL BILL VOL. 1"

1. Darryl Hannah is a much worse actress than Lucy Liu
2. there isn't an overwhelmingly great fight scene like the Crazy 88s/House of Blue Leaves sequence
3. less energy overall
4. steals even more flagrantly than its predecessor
5. when I saw Vol. 1, I wasn't sitting behind a guy who was 9 feet tall

WAYS IN WHICH "KILL BILL VOL. 2" IS BETTER THAN "KILL BILL VOL. 1"

1. better-done, technically speaking
2. evil midget!
3. Uma is even hotter than before
4. snappier dialogue, not in Japanese (mostly)
5. Gordon Liu (who dies 35 times in the first movie and returns in this one as the kung fu master Pai Mei) is the kung fuiest kung fu kung fu master ever and he is so ****ing kung fu great that I kung fu **** myself

[GeneChing]

I enjoy a good plate of nachos now and again. I enjoy Kill Bill. I know it's bad for me, but sometimes I enjoy bad things. ;)

I personally can't wait to see V2. I laughed so hard at V1. Surely it's not something I'd take my wife and kid to. But me and my good drinking buddy, we're going this weekend. I also am fascinated about the public reaction - this from a professional standpoint. Every significant MA movie has a lasting effect upon our practice, whether good or not. Man, we're still dealing with the Kung Fu tv series. I'm eager to see what effect KB will have on us as a whole. I think it's been a bit suspended, because Tarantino has to do well with the second one to justify releasing a two-part movie. That's pretty unprecedented*, pretty bold, and a testament to Tarantino and the power of MA films.

*Some might cite Lord of the Rings, but since that was based on a trilogy of books that already had an immense following, I'd argue that KB is different.