My curiosity will probably get me killed here....

[Midnight]

....but I have to know.

Only recently have I been reading this particular board in the forums. And I stumbled across a post that seemed to poke fun at specific martial weapons....most notably, the nunchaku and sai.

Someone wanna fill me in....it seems like its been a long running forum joke.

[Midnight]

strange no responce yet, there were more than just one person involved in the discussion....

[Losttrak]

I have no knowledge of any inside joke concerning chucks or sai, personally.

[David Jamieson]

well, the inside joke is that they are not chinese martial arts weapons.

is that a joke though? or is it just the guys who run "kungfu" schools but teach karate who are a joke?

is that an inside joke though? or is it right there like a turd on the table?

seriously, I'll point at the turd on the table and say "hey, isn't that a turd on the table?" lol "of course it is" better wipe it off.

[Shaolinlueb]

Originally posted by Kung Lek
well, the inside joke is that they are not chinese martial arts weapons.

is that a joke though? or is it just the guys who run "kungfu" schools but teach karate who are a joke?

is that an inside joke though? or is it right there like a turd on the table?

seriously, I'll point at the turd on the table and say "hey, isn't that a turd on the table?" lol "of course it is" better wipe it off.

wait doesnt wah lum have the nunchucks and sai as weapon forms? :o

[n0rmann]

I study Chen taiji at a Wah lum school and I've never seen them using sais or nunchuks. They use the three sectional staff, double butterfly swords and double daggers.

[Royal Dragon]

I don't know about Numb Chucks, but I do seem to remember some Southern Chinese schools have the Sai. It's called something else, and it is used a bit differently than the standard Karate version.

[Shaolinlueb]

so WL doesnt use NC or Sai's.
but doesnt shaolin-do? :D :o ;) :p

[Judge Pen]

Some schools claiming southern chinese heritage do use sai and a nunchucku, and that has been debated as whether it is traditional or evidence that they are fake or subsummed into their art after it left Southern China. Please read those threads for the specifics; however, both the sai and nunchucku have been recently featured in KFM which sparked some of the discussion here.

[MasterKiller]

It has yet to be proven whether or not those Southern styles either imported or exported the weapons in question.

[SifuAbel]

The sai, a common hand pitchfork, and the nunchaku, a common rice flail, were used by many asian countries in farming rice. The chinese version of these impliments were slightly longer.

They can appear in styles that have a provincial background.

[backbreaker]

It's funny how simple tools are now viewed as exotic deadly weapons by a lot of people.

[travelsbyknight]

the sai is a southern praying mantis weapon. I doubt they were used to catch swords and break them like Rapheal, the ninja turtle, used them. They were used to striking and ripping.

That's what I heard anyway.


There are very few weapons on the "street" that can be used like nunchucks.

[MasterKiller]

Originally posted by backbreaker
It's funny how simple tools are now viewed as exotic deadly weapons by a lot of people. A screwdriver is deadly if I stick it in your eyeball.

[Shaolinlueb]

Originally posted by travelsbyknight
the sai is a southern praying mantis weapon. I doubt they were used to catch swords and break them like Rapheal, the ninja turtle, used them. They were used to striking and ripping.

That's what I heard anyway.


There are very few weapons on the "street" that can be used like nunchucks.

hey man, havent you seen kung pow? he uses to gerbals or something as nunchucks. :D
like sifu abel im sure most people knew they were farming weapons, jsut weather or not the styles incorporated them, i think msot people think of japanese styles when nthey say nunchuck or sai is what im guessing.

[backbreaker]

I never meant they were not deadly, I'm just not the greatest writer. But it seems to me that in the past they were not so concerned with what is traditional or not, but what worked and could be integrated to the principles of the art.

[Becca]

It may have not been in certain lineages 500 years ago, but is part of my style's lineage, and has been for quite some time from what I gather. Of course, most peeps here don't consider my style's lineage "pure"... :rolleyes:

[David Jamieson]

sai and nunchaku

the short sweeper is teh chinese instrument of rice flailing, basically a farm implement turned weapon.

teh sai is also a farm implement, and tere are a set that are particular to chinese martial arts, tehre are also sets that are particular to other asian martial arts. For instance, some silat peeps use a sai like weapon.

but they are predominantly japanese martial arts implements.

let's not forget that much of what we have now is made up of a patch work put together by bruice lee fans and david carradine wannabes.

not all, but much of it in the collective western conciousness is that type of nonsense.

Luckily, people are starting to see that for what it is and are seeking out the real deal. Now, the real deal is out there and is certainly more available, but the proliferation of Bruce lee and david Carradine types is definitely still mor eplentiful in my opinion.

and so, we are faced with this hodge podge that turns into sorting mice turds from raisins.

It takes a long time and usually your raisin pile is gonna be smaller than your mice turd pile in the end.

If nothing else, the sai like weapon and the nunchucks are not primary weapons in "for real" Chinese martial arts. they are secondary at the very best and more often than not, these weapons are excluded entirely from serious chinese martial arts.

The Staff, the broadsword, are the primaries.

The long weapons and the flexible weapons are the secondaries.

With the exception that "spear" is considered the "king" of weapons in many chinese martial arts.

3 section staff is not found in a whole lot of cma, but it is in some styles.

in pretty much every shaolin based style, there is staff and broadsword though. these are the fundamental weapons. With staff taking precedence because of the buddah factor.

cheers

[X_plosion]

AFAIK, the Ngo Cho Kun (Five Ancestors Fist) style of Kung Fu teaches the Sai. Some of the style's best students and teachers were from Fukien, where the Sai is said to have been commonly used as a self-defense weapon.

Also, Fukien is near Okinawa, so the two places could have influenced each other. Isshinryu Karate teacher
Arsenio Advincula said that the use of the Sai as a weapon did start in China.

[joedoe]

I can also vouch for the fact that Ngor Chor has sai in its curriculum. As for its history I cannot say. And yes, it is not a primary weapon in the art, but is not taught until the student has a fair understanding of both the sword and the staff.