Challenge Accepted

[YinYangDagger]

I have just been challenged by apparently a Black Belt at my former Shaolin-do school (under the Shaolin Kung Fu Forum).

I hereby accept the challenge, and want it publicly acknowledged. I also demand it be taped. Anyone in the San Antonio area that will have my back (don't feel like fighting ALL of them) please let me know. I want it fair, mano-mano.

As Big John would say "Let's get it on"

[Judge Pen]

:rolleyes:

As serpent appropriately said once, this will be like KFO's own special olympics.

You two want to fight, fine. If I was in the area I'd do my best to keep it fair. But really, wtf is this going to prove one way or the other?

[dwid]

So, is Yin Yang Dagger the name your parents gave you? Because there's not a lot of point to you publicizing accepting a challenge anonymously.

[Marky]

Bwah?

[YinYangDagger]

JP - I know you're trying to be helpful, however, I did not initiate this challenge.

But I won't back down, either.

[YinYangDagger]

dwid - Apparently, the guy knows who I am, as does the other San Antonio peeps that visit this board.

[dwid]

My point is that you're asking for "public acknowledgement" of your acceptance of a challenge when the public doesn't know who you are. It just seems silly.

[Judge Pen]

Originally posted by Sho-dan
HA! Ying Yang, you are not intelligent enough to insult me, nice try though. In fact, your opinion worries me about as much as a cloudy day. However, being that you quit after blue belt says a lot about your character. Why don't we meet and discuss what you've missed since you left. I live nearby.

Also, thank you for validating my first statement in this thread.

Hardly a "Let's meet so I we can beat on each other and proove nothing" challenge. But I may be reading it wrong.

[Losttrak]

I am in Dallas and I might consider rollin down there sometime with a camera. When is the date/time/place?

[Losttrak]

wtf.... double post

[Judge Pen]

Originally posted by dwid
My point is that you're asking for "public acknowledgement" of your acceptance of a challenge when the public doesn't know who you are. It just seems silly.

It is silly. Possible outcomes:

S-D wins. Wohoo It proves nothing about the effectives of SD; just that YYD was an idiot to begin with.

YYD wins. He proclaims it as gospel that SD stinks. S-D become disillusioned and quits SD. Some people jump on this bandwagon while others realize that it proves nothing.

S-D backs out: YYD says its becasue SD stinks. Some agree; others do not.

YYD backs out: S-D says "see he's an idiot." The world keeps turning.

YYD and S-D beat the bejezus out of each other. We get a bit of internet buzz over the video. The world keeps turning.

Stop the desperate cries for man-love. I'm sorry you two wern't held enough when you were a child, but this is stupid. And Silly.

[Losttrak]

I wont discount the exhilaration of whooping ass. There is very little as therapeutic as a good whompin.

[sean_stonehart]

.....idiots........:rolleyes:

[SevenStar]

It may not mean anything to us, but it will settle something between the two of them. As the CMA here are always saying, "challenge matches happened all the time, back in the day," so why not now? If nothing else, it will become one of the so few available examples of CMA fighting on the net.

[Judge Pen]

Technically then neither would YYD. And 7* I wouldn't want their fight to be an example of CMA on the web.

[Starchaser107]

LOL @ mk

anywayz, let 'em fight,
afterall this IS what they're training to do huh.
they're both willing participants it seems...why not.
maybe it won't proove anything to us other than solidify that the better practicioner of martial arts won.
it wont proove any arts validity or effectiveness over another...
i doubt that sd and yyd are masters of thier respective arts...
so its just man vs. man
whatever
go for it

[jun_erh]

As Big John would say "Let's get it on"

and Captain Tenille (MXE)

[Chang Style Novice]

#1 - Marvin Gaye said "Let's Get it On"

#2 - He wasn't talking about no might-be-CMA vs. might-not-be-CMA fight in some back alley of Texas. He was talking about something altogether more pleasant.

#3 - "Meet and discuss" doesn't really sound like an imminent beatdown anyway, although it doesn't sound like a long, tender night of lovin', either.

#4 - If we see a videotape of "meet and discuss" on the web, and it's claimed to be CMA, does that mean CMA is arguing about the true origins of Shaolin-Do at a S.A. Starbucks?

[SevenStar]

Originally posted by MasterKiller
except that Sho-Dan doesn't do CMA....:o

yeah, but yyd kinda does...

[YinYangDagger]

Thanks 7*, you hit the nail on the head.

WE study "martial" arts, not "philosophy" arts. If I wanted that I would have taken more philosophy in college and sit around reading books.

And it doesn't matter if it's SD or whatever, it just so happens that an SD guy challenged me.

So be it.

[Water Dragon]

ttt (http://www.ebaumsworld.com/forumfun/gay16.jpg)

[Bluesman]

WD,
Now that made me laugh out loud!!!

[David Jamieson]

just video tape it and post it so we can endlessly ridicule it on teh internet.

who knows, maybe it will make the news like star wars kid did!

or better still, William Hung, the only one who isn't in on the joke that is him!

just let us see so we can have yet one more piece of ridiculous crud in our lives that will bolster our misdirected belief that we ourselves are not idiots because you are huge idiots! (That is the principle of reality tv afterall and so far, the mainstream is giving it total buy in!)


cheers

[Judge Pen]

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Originally posted by Sho-dan
HA! Ying Yang, you are not intelligent enough to insult me, nice try though. In fact, your opinion worries me about as much as a cloudy day. However, being that you quit after blue belt says a lot about your character. Why don't we meet and discuss what you've missed since you left. I live nearby.

Also, thank you for validating my first statement in this thread.
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
OK, just WHAT about this post is a public challenge to fight? :rolleyes:

[Judge Pen]

Fair enough. I missed that post to you. Was it before or after the post in question to YYD?

[Judge Pen]

Ok, I take it back. Sho Dan, YYD knock yourself out.

[norther practitioner]

lmfao...


Y'all are too funny.

[fa_jing]

If you want to fight, fight. I would insist on some kind of safety gear though. Tape if you want, or don't. Some backup is a good idea.

[Shadowboxer]

I've got a camera too. Maybe I'll roll down there with Losttrack and film this "fight" if he's interested.

[Starchaser107]

aw shizzle,
it better be on now.

[red5angel]

I'm always shocked and surprised at how wussified martial artists have become. Back in the day, and not so long ago, when two martial artists wanted to fight, they fought. It wasn't turned into some moral issue and it didn't somehow prove they were less inteligent then anyone else. They are martial artist, it's what they train to do for fukk sake.
Even more ironic then that is the type who expounds on his sifu's sifu who used to really kick ass back in the day, you kow in hong kong, or check out this article on how many guys my sifu killed to defend our art and blah blah. Yet the minute fighting comes into ther real life equation it's "that's silly" or "what's that going to prove" or "stop being a couple of neanderthals" and so much other useless crap. Give me a break guys, if you want to wear silk pajamas and dance around making all sorts of flowery gestures to look good for the girls then by all means go ahead. But when someone wants to step up and test themselves and what they have learned, shut the fukk up ok?
I spar about every other week in a pretty high intensity environment. I do it because I'm studying the martial arts to learn how to fight and the only gauge on how far I've come is to put it all to the test. I get hurt, my opponents get hurt, we sweat and we learn all sorts of things about we can make work and what we can't. But you can bet your sweet silk pj wearing azzez that I'm not about to spend this much time on a skillset I don't get to test.
I think fa_jing has a great idea, put on some protective equipment, some head gear and a mouthpiece should suffice, and go at each other. I say your training to fight so fight.

[Double Dagger]

This was posted by YYD when he was in Shaolin-Do

Shaolin-do.....Again
Yes, I am starting a Shaolin-do thread, again. I am new to this board, but being a Shaolin-do student in San Antonio, I wanted to put my 2 cents in. I haven't been there long, only around 5 months or so, but to me personally I think the Sifu there is TOP NOTCH. I personally think that all this bashing will always go on, regardless of what one learns. For example: 1. Which Wing Chun organization is better? There are 3 popular branches now (each one always headbutting the other) 2. American Kenpo, Tracy's Kenpo, Dragon Kenpo, MooShoo Kenpo, take your pick (they all stemmed from Mitose, but where are his "secret scrolls" and lineage? Conflicting stories out there...) 3. Taekwondo ITF vs. WTF (enough said there, but which is better?) 4. Who created Hapkido? Look at the conflicts there (and according to Grandmaster Choi, his certificates were stolen just as he arrived back in Korea, and his supposed teacher never entered him as taking one lesson back in Japan) 5. How many Hung Gar lineages are there? (Each group says the other is lying...) 6. Eagle Claw (I count at LEAST two Grandmasters of the system, which is real and which is fake?) 7. Krav Maga (originated from the techniques of Hapkido I read, but they won't agree to that) 8. By the way, Krav Maga is NOT the official Israeli martial art, something else is (hey, I read it in a Black Belt ad) 9. Kung Fu San Soo (where did Master Jimmy Woo get his knowledge...YOU'RE KIDDING, from his family??? Where's his lineage certificates? Why did he call his grappling "jujutsus" (plural?) He MUST be fake). By the way, just MESS with a KFSS stylist and you're libel to get your teeth caved in... 10. Why did all the Korean instructors call their art (taekwondo) KARATE back in the '60's? Grandmaster Hee Il Cho MUST be fake if he did that...11. Original JKD, Eclectic JKD, JKD mixed with Arnis, Extra Crispy JKD (and all this time I thought Bruce Lee said JKD was HIS art, not to be interpreted by the masses) 12. SCARS has made millions of $$$, but he was a Kung Fu San Soo master (same techniques taught in KFSS) 13. Bujinkan Ninjutsu (all others are FAKE - hey wait a minute - Soke Hatsumi is not recognized in Japan under ANY martial art organization?? Read this article: http://koryu.com/library/ninjutsu.html

Believe me, I could go on and on, but I think you get my point. When I first came to SA, I went to at LEAST 10 different schools to find one I like. I now drive many miles to get the SD school, when there are SO many dojos near my home. So you think I'm a pushover and naive? I have black belts in one of them Kenpo styles and a ninjutsu style, was a hand-to-hand combat / knife fighting instructor in the U.S. Marine Corps (even got the certificate). I've also trained in Okinawan kickboxing and Isshinryu Karate. I also have a Bachelor of Science degree.

I believe it's ludicrous and immature to go on and on about bashing a system. I personally do not like Taekwondo (any of the styles), so you know what? I don't take it. I don't sit here on the keyboard trying to convince the world that it's no good. Why would someone do that? To help out? I don't think so. It's simply done to try and prove to everyone that the person bashing is somewhat intelligent, when in reality it just shows how bored, immature, and how much you really don't have a life. I have an idea, why not go train? And even more ludicrous is to challenge someone over the internet (i.e. YOU KNOW MY ADDRESS, COME ON DOWN AND LET'S FIGHT). LOL how ridiculous is that? Step up face to face, then I'll know it's real. In my opinion, the bashers are very poor examples of martial artists. The type of guys (or girls) that get a black belt in one system, then move to another and whip up on a white belt in sparring class to feel good about themselves. I train in Shaolin-do and am proud of it, and will continue to train in SD, regardless of these weak, attention-seeking opinions. I suppose I could quit, and come read this board everyday, with all the "masters" on here I may learn a thing or two. Naaahhh....




It's amazing that here is someone who is doing everything that he was against. What a loser.

[Water Dragon]

here we go again...

[YinYangDagger]

Yeah, in my IGNORANCE I did say all that, so what? It's a free nation, I can change my mind.

And since it's free, I reiterate now, Shaolin-do is NOT from Shaolin - the name Shaolin is used as a marketing tool, and therefore SD is misleading the innocent people that walks through the door. I'M NOT GOING TO SHUT UP ABOUT THIS. I AM ENTITLED TO AN OPINION, AND IF IT GETS SOMEONE'S PANTIES IN A WAD, SO WHAT?

Dooble Dagger you can be the brainiac all you want, find all my posts and paste them here all you want. The simple fact is MANY people are leaving SD for various reasons, including the not-so-provable-history, lack of quality control, SD forms that have Chinese names yet they are totally different than what the REAL forms look like, etc. Have you ever seen the form Bung Bo (Praying Mantis) outside of SD? Looks nothing like it...

Simple fact is I could care less what your opinion is of me. Now get back to your karate.

[YinYangDagger]

Oh, I almost forgot, for all you folks that have PMed me about this, here it is: www.hometown.aol.com/justsaynotosd

[Meat Shake]

I live in san antonio.
I dont have a camera, but if one of the 2 of you has one, Ill be more than happy to video tape, and if there will be a fight I can bring one of my 7* looking friends to referee the fight.

[apoweyn]

Originally posted by YinYangDagger
Oh, I almost forgot, for all you folks that have PMed me about this, here it is: www.hometown.aol.com/justsaynotosd

It doesn't say anything. It makes reference to a bunch of articles. But they don't seem to be working.

[Meat Shake]

It hates you. Give up.

[Losttrak]

Shadowboxer, I dont have any prob with ya coming along. Only problem is that I may bring the wifey since she loves San Antonio. If thats the case, then we may have an extended stay which may not be convenient for ya. =p Well, before we go into that we should just wait and see if its gonna really happen or not. :eek:

[Starchaser107]

Ap
same thing happenned to me ,
I concluded that the "Under Construction" notice at the bottom of the page might have had something to do with the non existent links to supposed articles in question.


but why post a link to the page in the first place if theres no info


bright.

[Meat Shake]

Losttrak- you comming down? Drop me a PM if you do, Id be more than happy to meet up and share.
What style do you study?

[MasterKiller]

Originally posted by Meat Shake
Losttrak- you comming down? Drop me a PM if you do, Id be more than happy to meet up and share.
What style do you study? I imagine LostTrack studies LostTrack Boxing (mizong chuan), but I could be wrong. ;)

[YinYangDagger]

SC- Thanks for the "bright" comment. :p

I was receiveing PMs about seeing the page I started on, and somewhere on here I mentioned that this anti-SD thing didn't consume all my time, and that I just worked on it during from time.

So voila, there it is.

Boss coming, gotta get back to work!

[Meat Shake]

So are you guys going to fight or not?
If so, Ill give you both my cell phone # so this thing can get scheduled, if not, stop bickering.
Ill set up a place, video camera, and official. You guys just have to say when.

[Starchaser107]

lol,
all in good fun of being the antagonist.

you guys really should fight though, i'd personally like to see that happen.

in all fairness to the "peacekeepers" of this board though, I gotta say that it's really wack this "meet you in the parking lot afterschool " mentality...

i know i.m.n.s.h.o sho dan started it. and you yyd want to finish it.
I suppose it's the "Honourable" thing to do,
as testosterone driven as it is.
Everybody resolves conflict differently ... you are in the wild wild west aren't you.:cool:

[norther practitioner]

Prob. more texans that are more hat, less cattle.

[Starchaser107]

them thar prolly be fighting wurds
were it not fer me not bein a cow folk
i'd reckin you n 'em college ejamacted thoughts of yers be talkin' smack bout ma cattle boy...
but I ai'nt got no cattle
nor hats
so mosie along now
git

[YinYangDagger]

LOL you guys are crazy

MS - PM me your cell number

[The Willow Sword]

YYD. make sure you have that.

Peace,,TWS

[apoweyn]

Originally posted by Meat Shake
It hates you. Give up.

Now there's a life philosophy!

[apoweyn]

Originally posted by Starchaser107
Ap
same thing happenned to me ,
I concluded that the "Under Construction" notice at the bottom of the page might have had something to do with the non existent links to supposed articles in question.

As I probably should have done. :)



but why post a link to the page in the first place if theres no info


bright.

Exactly.

[Meat Shake]

Where is this shodan guy during all of this?
Has he agreed to fight yet?

Wheres a link to the initial argument?


"Now there's a life philosophy!"

You may now call me socrates.

[Fu-Pow]

My suggested modern day "challenge match" rules:

Equipment:
-Mouthpiece (no need to lose your teeth)
-Taped hands or very lightly padded NHB style gloves (more to protect your hands than the other person)
-Cup

Rules:

-No eye gouges or intentional joint breaking/tearing (this is to see whos a better fighter, not maim someone for life)
-Knees, elbows, grappling, kicks, throws, punches, joint locks, sweeps, palm strikes, pressure point strikes and anything else is allowed.
-You go until someone gets KOed, breaks something, runs out of steam or cries uncle.

:p

[Judge Pen]

Originally posted by YinYangDagger
Yeah, in my IGNORANCE I did say all that, so what? It's a free nation, I can change my mind.

And since it's free, I reiterate now, Shaolin-do is NOT from Shaolin - the name Shaolin is used as a marketing tool, and therefore SD is misleading the innocent people that walks through the door. I'M NOT GOING TO SHUT UP ABOUT THIS. I AM ENTITLED TO AN OPINION, AND IF IT GETS SOMEONE'S PANTIES IN A WAD, SO WHAT?

Dooble Dagger you can be the brainiac all you want, find all my posts and paste them here all you want. The simple fact is MANY people are leaving SD for various reasons, including the not-so-provable-history, lack of quality control, SD forms that have Chinese names yet they are totally different than what the REAL forms look like, etc. Have you ever seen the form Bung Bo (Praying Mantis) outside of SD? Looks nothing like it...

Simple fact is I could care less what your opinion is of me. Now get back to your karate.

Sure YYD you have an opinion and are totally free to change your mind. More power to you.

However, how is it credible for someone that can so vehemently argue one point and then turn around and argue the other point. It's a wash; any credibility you have, one way or the other, is negated.

We are not at war with Oceana. Oceana is our friend. We hate Eurasia.

And hey, you two have fun fighting. I'm all for a good fight, but only when it's necessary. Not for childish reasons. If that makes me wussified, then so be it.

[YinYangDagger]

"However, how is it credible for someone that can so vehemently argue one point and then turn around and argue the other point. It's a wash; any credibility you have, one way or the other, is negated."

In my opinion the brainwashing effect didn't work on me, like it does you and countless others. And if you say you aren't brainwashed and you keep an open mind and that you KNOW there are discrepencies in your art's history (i.e. BOLD FACED LIES), then you're just stupid for continuing to stay in it.

So which one is it? Brainwashed or stupid?

Credibility in who's eyes? Yours? I only have to be "credible" to one entity, and it's certainly not you.

On another note, I appreciate all you guys that posted rules for fighting, etc. Sorry though, that's not me. If it's a real fight, I won't succumb to being bogged down by any rules. Vale tudo!

[Judge Pen]

I know what I believe. Discrepancies aside, I believe my training is beneficial. So frankly I don't care what's true, what's exaggerated, or myth. At least I'm consistent with my opinon and don't change my mind every time the wind shifts direction.

We are not at war with Eurasia. Eurasia is our ally. We are at war with Oceana.

[Losttrak]

Meatshake & Shadowboxer,

I am waiting for some time/date info to be posted or PMed. Once we get that then we can start making plans. As far as bringing others, I think we will be ok. I always carry the proverbial ace up my sleeve as a deterrent.

[PT-Kali]

I think, and I bet I'm not the only one, that yyd did the right thing by leaving Shaolin-do

He changed his mind based on an informed decision

at first he was a sucker and got lured through the door, once he figured out otherwise he was gone

sounds smart to me

[BentMonk]

YYD - Dude, the horse you're riding has been dead and beaten for a very long time. Still it is your life and time. How you chose to waste them is up to you. I and everyone else in this world share the same freedom. There has already been a champion of your cause...Fu Pow. I respect him much more than I do you. ( yes I am already aware how much this distresses you:) ) At least he didn't spend a year (not exactly a lifetime btw) singing at the top of his lungs how great SD was, and then do a complete 180 like he was a born again MA or some stupid sh!t. So you're going to fight a "vale tudo" type fight huh? In the HIGHLY unlikely event that this great contest takes place AND gets video taped...what happens if you get your a$$ kicked? Will you still post it on your site? Does this redeem SD in your eyes? Does it prove you wrong? Or will you dismiss it as an example of individual ability rather than art effectiveness? Oh but you already know you're going to win...sorry forgot about that part. :) I don't know you, and don't know Sho Dan. I do know who runs the San Antonio SD chapter. If Sho Dan is even a pale mirror of his teacher, you're in for a fun ride. ;) Before anybody gets fussy about me bringing third party references into the mix, it was just a comparisson...chill :) Personally I hope your childish a$$ gets kicked up between your shoulder blades. That's because I don't like your attitude. I wouldn't like it even if I'd never heard of SD. You are what Webster's defines as a hypocrite. I don't like hypocrites, no matter where I find them. JMO. As you've said, something we're ALL entitled to. Have fun dude. :)

[Golden Tiger]

When I first came to SA, I went to at LEAST 10 different schools to find one I like. I now drive many miles to get the SD school, when there are SO many dojos near my home. So you think I'm a pushover and naive? I have black belts in one of them Kenpo styles and a ninjutsu style, was a hand-to-hand combat / knife fighting instructor in the U.S. Marine Corps (even got the certificate). I've also trained in Okinawan kickboxing and Isshinryu Karate. I also have a Bachelor of Science degree.

After all that talk about being anti-SD then this is posted....

Dude, you have been punk'd. You appear to me as one of those guy's (I use the term loosely) has studied all these styles, has black belts galore and then gets b*tch slapped by some chic and starts whining. Tell the truth about why you left SD. It has nothing to do with seeing the light. So who whipped your butt and made you cry? Your teacher make you do extra push-ups?
I have taught hundreds like you. All gung ho till you see that you aren't "da SH*T".

Then some guy makes a comment that could be read many different ways and you are ready to fight to the death. My goodness, the maturity level of some of you never ceases to amaze me. Grow up, get out in the sunshine, get a freakin job. Use that bachelors of science for something productive to society.

Here I go away for a while and look what happens.

[Golden Tiger]

Originally posted by MasterKiller
All the wushu training tends to make us ignorant.

Not ignorant, just soft.

[Judge Pen]

Originally posted by PT-Kali
I think, and I bet I'm not the only one, that yyd did the right thing by leaving Shaolin-do


I think he made the right decision too. Different reasons of course.

[YinYangDagger]

"Here I go away for a while and look what happens."

Hey GT, don't go away mad, just...well, you know the rest.

It's not only the fact that that I had a revelation about the BS lineage with SD, it's also the fact about all the lies, etc.

Here's another one I heard at my school: "Master Joe had a Brazilian Jiu Jitsu Black Belt come into his school and challenge him. After he beat the guy the BJJ guy said SD was awesome"!

THIS IS AN ACTUAL STORY FROM WHERE I USED TO TRAIN.

Who was the BJJ Black Belt? Did anyone else witness it?

[YinYangDagger]

JP- At least we can agree on something :D

[Meat Shake]

lol...
Actually, the story was that a BJJ blackbelt challenged master mullins, and master mullins simply crescent kicked the guy and KOed him or some silly ****... :rolleyes:

Ive already stated my opinion on shaolin-do. If people are getting good out of it and continue to get good out of it, so be it, all the better for them. There are some good people at the SA SD school, and sifu ryan is a good man. YYD, its not always wise to burn bridges behind you, which may be the case lest you specify your comments a bit more.

[Fu-Pow]

Originally posted by BentMonk
YYD - Dude, the horse you're riding has been dead and beaten for a very long time. Still it is your life and time. How you chose to waste them is up to you. I and everyone else in this world share the same freedom. There has already been a champion of your cause...Fu Pow. I respect him much more than I do you. ( yes I am already aware how much this distresses you:)

Wow...I'm so...like...totally flattered..haha..lol!

That's right YYD...no one can beat a dead horse like I can...no one!:p

[Golden Tiger]

Originally posted by MasterKiller
Well, you'll have to forgive us. Not all of us can blow candles out with out Chi!

http://www.geocities.com/parker-duvall/student/

:rolleyes:

Chi....not quiet, but kinda. One of the senior masters of SD did a seminar on that subject once MK and it was very enlightening. Not only is he a good speaker, but he also explained the mechanics of linking the body from the ground thru the hips, spine, shoulder then out the hand. Thats how the candle is put out. With minimal movement, the chain of energy(motion) generated from the ground to the hand in a very short period of time causes a shock wave of sorts (for lack of a better example) to put out the candle. See, could be considered Chi I guess...

Have you ever tried it? Pushing straight instead of the common "drop the wrist" which just fans it out.

[The Willow Sword]

So what we have is a SD'er challenging a former SD'er who got wise and left the school.

i feel for the SD'er who will challenge Yin yang dagger. Not because YYD might be stronger,,or more experienced. I feel for the Sd challenger,,because HE will not have support from his Teacher. He will be on his own. Or Support will be given at first and then taken away(like it was me when I challenged Reemul At eastwind)

Thats the thing about SD. You can stand up for the school and defend it to your hearts desire and when you are confronted with nay sayers and bashers and you feel you need to defend your school you dont get support from those you are defending.

and LIneage and history IS important in TCMA,,you cant just say that your training is just "beneficial" to you. Hell,,,,You can go to a gym and work out and it be beneficial to you. But if that gym extorts money or puts cameras in the womans shower or trainers
sexually harass female members,,,the integrity of the gym and its managers and owners integrity and HONOR come in to question. you have to ask yourself "is knowing or realizing that something is not very legitamate and that is recognized by MANY that it is not and have some evidence to suggest it,,is that worth staying and getting your "beneficial" training?

i use the example of the gym workout scenario to explain a point about the SDA and its apparent controversy over its integrity and validity of its lineage and forms. and back to my original statement that LIneage and History and a family tree IS important in TCMA. to claim something that it is not, to claim masters that cannot be corroborated in china and dates and times in history that conflict with what is established and corroborated as true(by the people who are living the history and lineage). you have to wonder? "If the history is fabricated? what ELSE is fabricated? the forms? the techniques? this history behind the forms and the techniques? Sure you can say that what you learn is beneficial to you and that you can defend yourself,,and that may be enough for some. but to live and be a part of an alleged LIE? and to disregard that alleged LIE and continue about your merry way? well im sorry,,i realized a lot of things and finally LISTENED to people who cared enough to share info with me and to enlighten me to certain aspects of what i was doing and how i was training. ALmost 7 years of myself eating bitter(whew).
maybe some SD people who come on here and read what a lot of people are saying and what has gone down for YEARs about this school, maybe these long time SD'ers who have been in it for 10 years+ feel like they have to stay. that everything they worked for and trained for will be left at the dojo/kwoon door when they decide to leave. Because that's what will happen to you, Your legitamacy and your training and history ENDS with Shaolin-Do, and is only Valid in the realm of Shaolin-Do.In the face of other schools with established and documented histories,they will not recognize you as anything valid,EVEN IF YOU ARE A GOOD MARTIAL ARTIST. and i dont blame those other schools. you would have to go back to the beginning, take off that multipled degree black belt and start all over. like i have done.

Peace,,,TWS

[Judge Pen]

Originally posted by Meat Shake
lol...
Actually, the story was that a BJJ blackbelt challenged master mullins, and master mullins simply crescent kicked the guy and KOed him or some silly ****... :rolleyes:


Funny, I haven't heard that story and I see Master Mullins often.



Originally posted by Fu-Pow


That's right YYD...no one can beat a dead horse like I can...no one!:p

:D Yes Fu Pow and we all love you for your deceased horse flogging abilities!

[YinYangDagger]

MS- I have a tendency to burn bridges when I feel I've been scammed....

And further, yeah, I don't blame Sifu Ryan for Sin The's and all the other master's BS, you're 100% correct, Sifu Ryan IS a good man, never have I said otherwise.

And just to clarify, I heard the story was from Master Joe's school, they even said that it happened in Austin. So, it either happened TWICE, or, the stories are being confused.

Also Meat Shake, if I'm thinking you are who I think you are, you're a cool guy, but we definitely have different attitudes. Nothing wrong with that, just that we might not see things the same way.

[YinYangDagger]

Fu Pow - I'm not trying to take your Dead Horse King crown, honest! :D

And thanks Willow Sword, you've said what I've been trying to say, I'm just not that good at words, I admit it. Maybe I can buy ya' a beer sometime.

[Judge Pen]

Originally posted by The Willow Sword


i feel for the SD'er who will challenge Yin yang dagger. Not because YYD might be stronger,,or more experienced. I feel for the Sd challenger,,because HE will not have support from his Teacher. He will be on his own. Or Support will be given at first and then taken away(like it was me when I challenged Reemul At eastwind)

Thats the thing about SD. You can stand up for the school and defend it to your hearts desire and when you are confronted with nay sayers and bashers and you feel you need to defend your school you dont get support from those you are defending.


TWS, I know this is the root of your malcontent with SD and I'm sorry you were treated that way by your school. But you don't know if EVERY SD school would treat you the same way. Your example is another reason I discourage sho dan and YYD from this challenge thing and feel that nothing good can come from it.


Originally posted by The Willow Sword


and LIneage and history IS important in TCMA,,you cant just say that your training is just "beneficial" to you. Hell,,,,You can go to a gym and work out and it be beneficial to you. But if that gym extorts money or puts cameras in the womans shower or trainers
sexually harass female members,,,the integrity of the gym and its managers and owners integrity and HONOR come in to question. you have to ask yourself "is knowing or realizing that something is not very legitamate and that is recognized by MANY that it is not and have some evidence to suggest it,,is that worth staying and getting your "beneficial" training?

maybe some SD people who come on here and read what a lot of people are saying and what has gone down for YEARs about this school, maybe these long time SD'ers who have been in it for 10 years+ feel like they have to stay. that everything they worked for and trained for will be left at the dojo/kwoon door when they decide to leave. Because that's what will happen to you, Your legitamacy and your training and history ENDS with Shaolin-Do, and is only Valid in the realm of Shaolin-Do.In the face of other schools with established and documented histories,they will not recognize you as anything valid,EVEN IF YOU ARE A GOOD MARTIAL ARTIST. and i dont blame those other schools. you would have to go back to the beginning, take off that multipled degree black belt and start all over. like i have done.


Sure Lineage and History is important, but not essential. There are very good martial artist that come from schools of questionable lineage. The bottom line is their abilities.

As fas as multiple black belts, I know that means nothing in any real sense. I've trained in other arts where I started from the begining. the foundation, however, was there and I felt like I advanced quickly in skill because of my SD training. Did they care about SD and the lineage. It didn't matter to them. My progress was important and they could tell that I was trained well. I went back to SD cause I found a quality teacher in my location. If not, I would have stayed training in other arts.

[Golden Tiger]

Originally posted by The Willow Sword
So what we have is a SD'er challenging a former SD'er who got wise and left the school.

i feel for the SD'er who will challenge Yin yang dagger. Not because YYD might be stronger,,or more experienced. I feel for the Sd challenger,,because HE will not have support from his Teacher. He will be on his own. Or Support will be given at first and then taken away(like it was me when I challenged Reemul At eastwind)



TWS, to be honest, if I heard that one of my students was on here or anywhere for that matter challenging people, I would whip his a$$ myself. Thats not what martial arts (be it CMA, TMA, MMA, blah blah MA, etc.) is all about.

Secondly, I wasn't around here when the "challenge match" took place but I have heard that you took a beating. Is that your teachers fault? Should he have been in your corner, ready to hold the guy, changing your diaper? You got in a fight, you got beat. Get over it. It happens to all of us. It had nothing to do with SD. It had nothing to do with your teacher...YOU made the challenge. Lord you people amaze me.

On a side note, welcome back Meat Shake, haven't seen you around in a while. I always enjoy your way of looking at things.

Just back myself, and heading out tomorrow again. Thought I would catch up over here.

[BentMonk]

YYD - I noticed that while you had plenty to say, you still didn't answer my question. IF this fight happens, and gets taped, will you post it for all to see if you lose? If you do lose, will you give credit to SD or individual ability?

[YinYangDagger]

IF this fight happens, and gets taped, will you post it for all to see if you lose? If you do lose, will you give credit to SD or individual ability?

I won't lose, that thought never enters my mind.

YOUR idea of losing is one based on points, or who got hit the most. My idea of losing is that I'm broken so bad I can't continue, or worse. IF this fight happens, it's winner takes all and the victor walks away. This will be a streetfight, not a tournament. That's how I see it.

[YinYangDagger]

By the way, I know I'll get a lot of flack by the above post, especially by the "artists" out there. Oh well, can't please everyone :(

[Judge Pen]

I'll try not to give you any flack for that increadibly flakey non-answer to Bent Monk's question.

So your answer is: "Yes, I'll post the tape of the fight"?

I don't care whether you think you will win or lose. We just want a straight answer YYD.

[PT-Kali]

as far as all the cutting and pasting of people's words from the past, it reminds me of jr. high school girls - "I'm going to tell Bobby about this letter I got from Jenny that says he got a letter from Karen becasue Misty said.." lol

it seems to me that the sders are the ones patronizing here, you demand this, you demand that. yyd is too nice, i'd just say got to he11. further it looks like yyd is a diffrent type of animal (sorry yyd) than you folks are used to dealing with and his takes his arts much more than a pasttime

[Losttrak]

I will be taping. Since I dont plan on giving up the tape, I will post it regardless of the results. Anyone who wants a copy can simply DL it when it posts.

[Judge Pen]

Originally posted by PT-Kali
as far as all the cutting and pasting of people's words from the past, it reminds me of jr. high school girls - "I'm going to tell Bobby about this letter I got from Jenny that says he got a letter from Karen becasue Misty said.." lol


You are referring to 3rd and 4th hand accounts. These were his own words. He was one of the most ardent SD supporters when he first posted here and now a complete 180. Which is fine, but what burs my saddle is that his previous posts held him out to be some type of MA authority who knew his stuff and chose SD after careful deliberation and study. Now he chose it because he fell victim to a marketing ploy. Mind you all this occurred in 6 months time. At least TWS had years of experience. His complaints seem much more credible to me.

What's the truth? I don't know. For all we know we are all 400lb gelatinous globs that are keyboard fu masters. If the fight happens and is taped then it may show otherwise, but I won't hold my breath. My bet is one or the other will back out and there will be more trash talking here, but nothing substantial to look at.

[BeiTangLang]

Wish I woulda had a little more time to plan, I'd go down there too. YYD is a wirey individual. It will be an interesting match to watch.

[The Willow Sword]

originally quoted by golden showers,,oops i mean tiger.

Secondly, I wasn't around here when the "challenge match" took place but I have heard that you took a beating. Is that your teachers fault? Should he have been in your corner, ready to hold the guy, changing your diaper? You got in a fight, you got beat. Get over it. It happens to all of us. It had nothing to do with SD. It had nothing to do with your teacher...YOU made the challenge. Lord you people amaze me.


I dont care that i lost the fight. What i do care about is when a teacher gives you support for the challenge match, and plans on sending with you a fellow black belt to be in your corner for the match, and then the day before the match he tells you that you are on your own and this is not his problem. Especially when you have Busted your ASS and spent every moment of your LIFE at the school teaching the students,,filling in for other peoples lack of committment, and being dedicated and LOYAL. is that the thanks i get for helping Joe to see his dream, being left in the dirt like that,told i am on my own,when i ask for support? oh im sure joe has his rationale for it all,,whatever, to me its all bullsh!t anyway.

Peace,,TWS

[joedoe]

I try to stay out of the Shaolin-Do slanging matches, but I had to say something here.

JP I find it interesting that you are happy to attack YYD's credibility, yet happily accept that Shaolin-Do's history is questionable and have no problems with their credibility.

[Bluesman]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by BeiTangLang
[B] YYD is a wirey individual.
That is how he posts too. :eek:

[Chang Style Novice]

YYD is a wirey individual?

HE described himself in a recent post as six-four, two eighty. That's two inches taller than me and forty lbs heavier. And I'm kinda soft around the middle. That's not wirey, and even if he's solid muscle, that's not wirey either.

[YinYangDagger]

CSN - LOL that wasn't me describing myself that way, that was someone else.

And maybe by wirey he means volatile, or maybe he means something else? I don't know...

[Chang Style Novice]

Yeah, I know - I'm just wondering why they'd use that particular word. Like maybe they have you confused for a skinny dude.

[joedoe]

Live wire maybe?

[Losttrak]

Maybe wiley? Tricky?

[Face2Fist]

so who won the challenge? how was the oil wrestling match?

[BentMonk]

Originally posted by YinYangDagger
I won't lose, that thought never enters my mind.
YOUR idea of losing is one based on points, or who got hit the most. My idea of losing is that I'm broken so bad I can't continue, or worse. IF this fight happens, it's winner takes all and the victor walks away. This will be a streetfight, not a tournament. That's how I see it. [/B]

YYD- My idea of a fight is just that...a fight. Just because I compete in tournaments does NOT mean that's how I view your little endeavor here. While I appreciate your high level of self confidence, I think you may be underestimating your opponent. That's cool though, it just increases the odds of you having your a$$ handed to you. I think someone else answered my question for you. They said since they were taping it, this "challenge" would be posted here regardless of outcome. I seriously doubt this will ever happen, but it'll be fun to watch if it does. I re-read ShoDan's post, it really doesn't sound like a challenge to me. It was however obviously a good enough excuse for you to get a little more attention for yourself. Honestly dude, if your were some 16 year old kid w/no previous MA background, studied SD for a year, got your feelings hurt or whatever and came here talking trash, I'd sympathize w/you. You represented yourself as a knowledgable MA who chose SD after careful research. Now a year later you're on here screaming that you got scammed. If you know so much about MA and have had all this experience w/other arts, the boys in TX must've had to use the jedi mind trick to keep you around for a whole year. As I said before, you're a hypocrite. Nothing very special or uncommon about that. I notice we still haven't heard from ShoDan. I don't really think he was challenging you, but considering how much trash you've talked around here, it sure sounds like you're trying to challenge someone. SD has it's faults to be sure. There is no perfect art or system. Still, there are talented MAs in SD, and some very fine people. If you truly held some of your former teachers and fellow students in as high regard as you claim, you would not publicly denounce what they've devoted their lives to, and attempted in good faith to share with you. I'm not trying to validate SD here. Too much bandwidth on that already. I'm talking about staying respectful to those who have shown you respect. If SD isn't for you...great. To disrespect the people you call friend in a public forum shows a profound lack of class. As I said before, IF this fight happens I hope you get a fist full or two of humility...you need it.
:)

[Bluesman]

Please do not think that I am in any way trying to tell you what to do. This is just an observation. It looks as if you have started to paint yourself into a corner. If you have seen what others on here and I do mean almost everyone has at some time said things which they later regret. Look at my location at the left of this post. Ramblings of a fool. I did that after writing something I went back and deleted and apologized.
At least Sho-Dan has calmed down and listened to what Judge Pen PMed him about.
Hey, even BentMonk shout his mouth off before :eek: LOL, he "inspired" me too, in the same thread :confused: :eek: :rolleyes:

[YinYangDagger]

<yawn>

[Judge Pen]

Originally posted by joedoe
I try to stay out of the Shaolin-Do slanging matches, but I had to say something here.

JP I find it interesting that you are happy to attack YYD's credibility, yet happily accept that Shaolin-Do's history is questionable and have no problems with their credibility.

SD's history is questionable and it does have gaps in it. But as far as I have observed it has remained consistently questionable. It's the sudden change from one position to an opposite position, while crying that he knows them both to be correct, that negates his opinion in my mind.

But I see where you are coming from JD. I catch flack occassionally from some SD students for openly discussing the questions I have about lineage while still staying true and loyal to my style. I can beleive in something that I can't prove and I can fill in gaps and questions with my own thoughts and musings without disbelieving what has been told to me.

Myth is part of every lineage also. I can accept that.

[Judge Pen]

Good anti-SD outline. You should thank several posters from KFO for providing much of the groundwork for your arguments.

I have a question. ON you site you say this:

"It is not, however, a 'smear campaign' or anything of that nature. It is here for informational purposes only. It will be up to the individual reader to determine if Shaolin-do is for them to study OR continue to study. This site will only present factual cases and arguments, and at ANY time points made here can be proven otherwise and in favor of Shaolin-do, they shall be removed."

Now am I reading it correctly, but are you saying that your site is to be fair and objective AND you will delete any posts that are in favor od SD?

[Fred Sanford]

:rolleyes:

[Shadowboxer]

What kind of camera(s) do you have?

[sean_stonehart]

Fix the site...

[Losttrak]

Shadow,

I have a Sony (?) digital camera. Got it a couple of months ago. Cant wait to use it!

[Starchaser107]

POP POP POP POP POP POP POP POP POP POP POP POP POP POP !!!! Fizzzzzzzzzzz

[YinYangDagger]

Thanks MK, that's exactly what I meant.

This is getting old to me. I accepted the challenge, although the SD crowd would lead you to believe that there was no challenge. However, 99% of the rest of the folks can read it and see it plain as day. MY PM function works well. If you guys can get the fight to happen, let me know. I have not heard anything else about it. I even agreed to let Meat Shake PM me his cell number so we can set this up.

As mentioned in some negative PM's to me (from SDers of course) , NO, I do not go around looking for fights. I would rather be ****** some hot Asian babe :)

But I don't back down either. Have I ever been beaten in a street fight? Sure. But I never went in thinking I was going to lose. I believe any negative thinking promotes negative results. Hard as that may be for some of you to understand, that's how I think.

A lesson to be learned here is not to be making challenges thinking everyone is just a keyboard commando. And truly never underestimate your opponent. A cliche, yes, but it's also a true cliche.

Thanks to all the supporters, as well as detractors. I don't harbor ill-feelings towards anyone here, mostly because, I really don't know you personally. Me and Shodan would probably get along well after I stepped on his neck a few times (remember, no negative thinking), and truth be known, we got along well before (I still don't know who is).

[Starchaser107]

" I would rather be ****** some hot Asian babe "

zeeen respect.

me 2

[Fu-Pow]

Originally posted by Judge Pen


SD's history is questionable and it does have gaps in it. But as far as I have observed it has remained consistently questionable. I can accept that.

Hahahahaha.....I might put that in my sig file. That is too funny.

[Golden Tiger]

Fu,

Did ya ever get things squared away with Dave Lacy?

[Meat Shake]

"Funny, I haven't heard that story and I see Master Mullins often"
He feels you are not yet ready. Keep practicing JP, just keep practicing.
;)
...

Either that or its a BS story and Master Mullins doesnt tell it because he wasnt involved in it. Or it may have been about Master Schaefer... I dont really care and dont really remember.

"On a side note, welcome back Meat Shake, haven't seen you around in a while. I always enjoy your way of looking at things."
If you stand on your head and chug heinekens for 2 hours you will see things the same as I do.

[Fu-Pow]

Originally posted by Golden Tiger
Fu,

Did ya ever get things squared away with Dave Lacy?


There's nothing to "square." The guy is looney toons....da..da..da..dats all folks!!;)

[CaptinPickAxe]

I don't care if you pit fight with sharpened toothbrushes. Just record it, send it to me or give it to Meat Shake. I'm thirsty for blood. I've been watching too much Kill Bill vol.1

[YinYangDagger]

Sharpened Toothbrushes is cool.

There are 2 high-level SD forms that teach that weapon, unknown to most, called "Golden Mountain Tiger Uses 2 Sharp Toothbrushes". And the other is called "First Road To Sharpened Toothbrush". I hear there are 4 Roads in all.

[YinYangDagger]

LOL MK

(you'e not supposed let the secret out - the Indonesian authorities monitor this board regularly)

[Meat Shake]

I just wanted to learn the no arm no leg pole climbing secret. :(

[blooming lotus]

Originally posted by SevenStar
, "challenge matches happened all the time, back in the day," so why not now?


;'cause "back in the day" you could just get into somone and bury them under a bush without anyone even questioning your motives...there's this little thing today call the law and when you're dealing with 2 skilled fighters..what are you giong to do?? kill each other....

get a grip:rolleyes:

[Losttrak]

I am sure they arent wanting to kill each other and the human body is more resilient than one might think. Plus, if I am taping and someone gets whacked I will be an accessory and I don't want that. I DO think that both parties should both sign a document that waives any possibility of legal repercussions for injuries sustained.

[Radhnoti]

YYD, are you using my thoughts that shaolin-do might be classified as kuntao as a negative on your anti-SD page? I couldn't access any of the articles...? Thanks.

[MonkeySlap Too]

YYD - What is the link to the page?

[YinYangDagger]

Rad - Those are just SOME of the topics, I haven't completed the write-ups on the topics, so they're not available yet.

MST - www.hometown.aol.com/justsaynotosd

[Vash]

When you gonna have the articles up?

[YinYangDagger]

well - I'm working on a few now...but I'm not in a huge hurry, I put my training, job, family, friends, etc. ahead of working on this webpage, which leaves me little time...

[Radhnoti]

I was told that SD detractors would use my comments about that in an attacking way...but I didn't see how. Let us know when you get that part up...I'm interested in seeing exactly how that's a negative. Thanks again.

[MonkeySlap Too]

The only topic there could be problematic is 'quality control' - EVERY MA group that has more than 5 members has this problem.

To be fair, I think some of the criticisms of SD can also be applied to other MA schools. It might be interesting to seperate those arguments, as they may be useful in parseing the wheat from the chafe in general.

[YinYangDagger]

thanks for the advice MST - I plan only on focusing on the SD part of quality control since I've witnessed it firsthand, and only want to concentrate on what I've seen personally

[Judge Pen]

Originally posted by YinYangDagger
thanks for the advice MST - I plan only on focusing on the SD part of quality control since I've witnessed it firsthand, and only want to concentrate on what I've seen personally

Well anecdotal evidence is hard to support or refute. I can always say, "Well maybe at your school, but our school is different." Then again, I've seen both good and bad SD people, so your observations may be accurate, but not valid across the board.

[Losttrak]

Has a time/date even been posted yet?

[Fu-Pow]

Originally posted by Losttrak
I am sure they arent wanting to kill each other and the human body is more resilient than one might think. Plus, if I am taping and someone gets whacked I will be an accessory and I don't want that. I DO think that both parties should both sign a document that waives any possibility of legal repercussions for injuries sustained.

This might protect them from suing each other but would not preven the state from getting involved and charging them with a crime. For example, if someone was killed as a result.

[Judge Pen]

Originally posted by Fu-Pow


This might protect them from suing each other but would not preven the state from getting involved and charging them with a crime. For example, if someone was killed as a result.

Heck it wouldn't even stop them from suing each other; it would just give one of them a stronger defense. Good point about the criminal aspect, too.

[Meat Shake]

Im not sure if they fought.
If they did and I didnt get to watch Ill have to kick both their arses.
:D

[Starchaser107]

results????????...

or was this fight already posted in the girl fight thread.

[Fu-Pau]

LOL :D

[Evad]

:D :D :D :D :D :D

LMAO that was good.....

[Losttrak]

This might protect them from suing each other but would not preven the state from getting involved and charging them with a crime. For example, if someone was killed as a result.


Yeah a civil suit can always been brought down and did you know that the 5th amendment doesnt apply in a civil suit? Scandalous.