Jade Dragon Tournament Questions

[X_plosion]

Pardon my ignorance, but location hampers me from getting the information I seek firsthand.

I recently received an invitation via email, from an American based organization called International Gungfu Lei Tai Federation, to participate in a tournament called "Jade Dragon". It's to be held in Washington, D.C. in July. The sanctioning body is called United Kungfu Federation of North America.

The way it's written up, the events look challenging and diverse. Some local CMA people think it might be a good experience to visit and compete there if the tournament is well-run and has good participants. However, when they visited the website, it was all about the tournament, with little detailed information on the IGLTF itself.

With that, I would like to ask whether anyone here has competed in tournaments run by the abovementioned organizations. If yes, what is your opinion and/or experiences on the way these events were conducted? Would you recommend that other CMA practitioners enter these?

While we're at it, might anyone know any good CMA tournaments that will be held this year in the U.S.A or Canada?

Thank you in advance.

[norther practitioner]

Taiji Legacy, July 30th - August 1
website (http://www.chinwoo.com/2004tcl/)

I know of a few people who are going to one in Orlando in July too.

Ross has some Sanshou coming up..

What exactly are you looking to compete in?

[lkfmdc]

do you mean these people?

http://igflf.tripod.com/ ??

this looks like their FIRST EVENT EVER, so they might be biting off more than they can chew trying to have a huge event

also, I know for a fact that ALL contact sports are governed by athletic commission in Wash DC, including martial arts evetns, but the comissioner HATES THEM

That is why NACMAF event was never done in DC

You could get arrested for extra special fun :D

[lkfmdc]

If you are looking for a fighting ONLY event..

King of San Da USA presents
2004 World San Da Championships
2004 San Da Super Fights
38 Nations, Over 50 teams
September 4, 2004
RexPlex Sports Complex
Elizabeth, NJ, USA

"OPEN AMATEUR COMPETITION"
This event is open to ALL amateur athletes who are 18 years of age or older. Professional athletes are restricted and may not enter. There is no prize money offered.

2004 San Da Super Fights
The best amateurs in the country fight for titles
http://www.angelfire.com/sd2/kingofsanda/2004superfights.html

Registration Fees:
$40 - Early Registration - must be postmarked by July 30, 2004.
$50 - Pre-Registration - must be postmarked by August 20, 2004
$60 - Late Registration

Divisions
Men's A Class: Open to all AMATEURS, all competitors will receive ranking after event
Men's B Class: BEGINNERS, 5 or less ring fights
Women: Women's competition is OPEN to all AMATEURS

Weight Classes
9 weight classes for men
7 weight classes for women
(see Registration Form at http://www.uskba.com/2004tournamentforms.htm)

Tournament rules can be found at
http://www.uskba.com/2004sanda.htm

Summary of Rules
We will be using King of San Da:USA rules at this event. Punching, kicking, knee strikes, throws and takedowns are all legal. Complete King of San Da:USA rules can be found at; www.angelfire.com/sd2/kingofsanda/ksdrules.html.

Required protective equipment:
- Shorts are MANDATORY in ALL matches. No long pants.
- All athletes in all competitions must provide and wear a groin protector and fitted mouth piece/gum shield. Groin protector must be worn under the shorts. Chest protector for females.
- Wearing of approved leather headgear is MANDATORY.
- We will supply 12 ounce boxing gloves.
- Shin and instep protection is MANDATORY in amateur competition. The padding must cover the shin and the top of the foot.
- Chest guard will NOT be used in this event.

Legal techniques:
1) Legal punching techniques include all boxing techniques and spinning back fist strikes. A spinning backhand must strike with the glove portion of the hand.

2) Legal kicking techniques include any kick to any legal target including the head, torso, outside of the thighs, inside of the thighs, and calves. Either kicks or sweeping motions with the arch of the foot are legal to both the front and supporting legs. In San Da matches, knees are legal to any area below the collar bone.

3) Clinching is allowed to seek advantage. However, the clinch is limited to five (5) seconds. Kicking the legs in the clinch and/or punching out of the clinch is legal. After five seconds, the referee will break the clinch and restart the fighters. Throws and takedowns completed after the 5 second period will not be considered by judges.

4) Competitors are allowed to use throw or takedown.

5) Competitors are allowed to catch kicks. Once caught, the fighter has 5 seconds to sweep, throw or takedown their opponent. Competitors may drive (plow) their opponent during this five second period. The drive can not be used to throw the opponent out of the ring.

Tournament hotel info
http://www.uskba.com/countryinn.htm

[Suntzu]

http://igflf.tripod.com/ ?? nice belt......

[Pork Chop]

at first I was like "kung fu event in DC without the Wongs!?! wtf?!?!"

then i saw the site for the school and i was like "oooohhhh"

[lkfmdc]

not sure I understand the last post, care to explain?

[Merryprankster]

sifu ross,

did you get anything out of your TCMA training that is not present in san da?

thanks!

[Pork Chop]

The Wongs have been some of the only ones to host kung fu tournaments in the DC city limits. Almost a territorial thing.

That school traces routes to Dean Chin and has history with the Wongs.

Still may be some controversy behind the scenes on that one.

[lkfmdc]

great, so if you don't get arrested by the SAC, you might end up in the middle of a tong war :rolleyes:

count us out!

As for TCMA, well, I made bucks lion dancing on new year's, but I also got poweder burns and froze near to death...

I am an encyclopedia of ways to use obscure weapons to maim and kill, so if I ever wanted to choreograph period pieces...

and I got drawers full of pretty outfits with matching boots :p

[Merryprankster]

so are you saying that you did NOT gain any empty hand fighting skill sets (qi related or otherwise) through TCMA that aren't cultivated in San Da?

[lkfmdc]

I've said this a lot before, there is NOTHING in TCMA as far as skill set wise, that is not found in a modern San Da curriculum, the difference is HOW we TRAIN....

As my program grows and matures, I have now set aside time for weapon work and weapon defenses, but against things like sticks, knives and chains and not spears and broadswords...

[MasterKiller]

How do you learn Chin Na or weapons with boxing gloves on?

[Merryprankster]

I've said this a lot before, there is NOTHING in TCMA as far as skill set wise, that is not found in a modern San Da curriculum, the difference is HOW we TRAIN....

i thought this was your message. thank you.

[lkfmdc]

who ever said we wear boxing gloves all the time?

people ASSUME they know what San Da is about, but often don't really know the inside story

[MasterKiller]

Originally posted by lkfmdc
who ever said we wear boxing gloves all the time?

people ASSUME they know what San Da is about, but often don't really know the inside story I don't know the inside story, granted.

But from your post I gather you still find value in some skill sets that aren't necessarily practical in a San Da tournament with protective equipment, correct?

[Suntzu]

How do you learn Chin Na or weapons with boxing gloves on? you take them off.....

[lkfmdc]

darn, we're gonna hijack this poor thread aren't we kids? :confused:

I maintain that ALL my skills are supported by a framework of basic skills which are all developed by what some call "sport"

I personally prefer to call them "alive training"

Face it, we aren't going to spar full out with live blades, we drill techniques, but when it comes down to it, the wrestling, kicking and hitting I developed in 'sport" are going to be the basis for what I can successfully pull off

[Merryprankster]

Face it, we aren't going to spar full out with live blades, we drill techniques, but when it comes down to it, the wrestling, kicking and hitting I developed in 'sport" are going to be the basis for what I can successfully pull off

obviously, you are just a novice. go stand in horse for the next 2 hours until you are enlightened.

[MasterKiller]

Originally posted by Merryprankster


obviously, you are just a novice. go stand in horse for the next 2 hours until you are enlightened. Nice one, Ral...MP.

At any rate, I wasn't aware San Da people trained for non-ring events. I figured their training was specific to that environment. Not saying the skills don't translate from one to the other, but you have mentioned teaching Chin Na before, and since a great deal of Chin Na would be difficult to pull-off with boxing gloves on, I was curious to as to your previous post.

[red5angel]

people ASSUME they know what San Da is about, but often don't really know the inside story


enlighten us.

[lkfmdc]

I just did Red, weren't you taking notes :rolleyes:

[red5angel]

I'm still waiting to see what sanda offers that other CMA do not.

[Ray Pina]

I find most of the "high percentage" locks I am comfortable with can all be done with gloves on because they don't rely upon the strenght of my fingers to hold a grasp, rather they use the forearm and elbow and crow bar theory.

[lkfmdc]

Originally posted by red5angel
I'm still waiting to see what sanda offers that other CMA do not.

1. practical training

2. useable skills

3. a proven consistent method of teaching people with NO BACKGROUND how to actually kick, punch and throw with power and focus

4. an environment where you can train hard, have fun and not have to memorize long forms, learn foreign languages, engage in hooky ancient rituals, or kiss Asian azz

[Merryprankster]

Nice one, Ral...MP.

funny guy again!!!

i love how when i get under your skin, this is the best you can come up with.

maybe it's the lortab, but you get funnier by the day.

r5a,

i don't know that San Da offers MORE; but i am satisfied that it doesn't offer LESS.

[MasterKiller]

Originally posted by Merryprankster


funny guy again!!!

i love how when i get under your skin, this is the best you can come up with.

maybe it's the lortab, but you get funnier by the day. It only funny cause it's true.....

[red5angel]

1. practical training

For instance?



2. useable skills

like? You mean punching and kicking? ;)




3. a proven consistent method of teaching people with NO BACKGROUND how to actually kick, punch and throw with power and focus

Sounds familiar.....


4. an environment where you can train hard, have fun and not have to memorize long forms, learn foreign languages, engage in hooky ancient rituals, or kiss Asian azz

ok.

[Merryprankster]

oh, if only you'd been on the warren commission, mk - we would have gotten to the bottom of it all!!

[red5angel]

of course you did say you train with whips

http://store.martialartsmart.net/tck-cs003.html


sticks

http://store.martialartsmart.net/tckprgs210.html

and what else? oh yeah, knives

http://store.martialartsmart.net/tck-hl001.html


I must be missing something.....

[red5angel]

i don't know that San Da offers MORE; but i am satisfied that it doesn't offer LESS.

I probably agree with you MP.

[MasterKiller]

Red5,
All he's saying is he takes the most useful stuff and trains it in a modern format without all the hullaboola. He's not knocking anyone for training their own way.

[MasterKiller]

Originally posted by Merryprankster
oh, if only you'd been on the warren commission, mk - we would have gotten to the bottom of it all!! I dunno....did the Warren Commission have mods PMing them to ask them not to bust anyone out? My history is fuzzy.

[lkfmdc]

the reality, the SAD reality that most TCMA people don't like to face, is that while the CLAIM to have something "in their system" they have no FUNCTONAL use of said skill

Weapons are the PERFECT example. TCMA approach is to learn a "form" and do it over and over agan in the air. A form that most likely also has plenty of fluff added in for show purposes and to impress the "rice bags"

We learned how to fight with weapons under Chan Tai san by drilling the applications and sparring with the weaons. That's why we were able to really embarass a lot of the so called TCMA people

I've told this story about 100 times here, but everyone wants to ignore its implications

Adam Hus showed up in Baltimore one year with his padded weapons and did a seminar. I was there with high ranking people from a lot of famous US schools

We basicly sparred all day. Must have been like 5 hours. NO ONE IN THE ROOM TOUCHED ME WITH A WEAPON EVEN ONCE

re-read that, I'm not saying "oh, they didn't get any clean shots in"

They didn't touch me.

They'd say "start" and I'd land a serious blow or disarm them.

I did it all day.... until Shihfu Hsu asked who I was, Tai Yim told him I was a student of Chan Tai San, Shihfu Hsu went "oh, well, that's why" :D

[Merryprankster]

I dunno....did the Warren Commission have mods PMing them to ask them not to bust anyone out? My history is fuzzy.

fascinating! do tell!!

[red5angel]

so sanda gave you the phat skeewz you needed to show all those crazy TMA guys that forms training doesn't work?

[MasterKiller]

lkfmdc,
Do you think training with outdated or antiquated weapons at all can translate into proficiency with newer tools? For example, could monk spade play translate into solid ability with a shovel, or Waxwood staff to a pool cue?

[MasterKiller]

Originally posted by red5angel
so sanda gave you the phat skeewz you needed to show all those crazy TMA guys that forms training doesn't work? No....practical application and live drilling gave him that skill. You do that bare-handed....why not with weapons?

No different from saying only doing bare-handed forms won't make you a fighter.

[Water Dragon]

lol @ people who need to categorize this stuff. That appears to be pretty much everyone who has posted on this thread.

[MasterKiller]

Originally posted by Merryprankster
fascinating! do tell!! I thought I just did?

[Merryprankster]

oh, no, let's hear the whole thing.

[lkfmdc]

I had a teacher who cut through all the BS and taught me how to train to fight for real, not engage in a form of mental masturbation under the title of "traditional martial arts"

In San Da, I have a method where 95% of my students acquire useable skills in very short periods of time

As opposed to TCMA where a few guys learn to fight only after years and trial and error

Sorry dude, all the air dancing you want isn't going to make you a fighter... and real Chinese martial knew that, but today we have all this crap under the label of "TCMA"

Shuai Jiao introduces the throws, then drills them, then spars with them

Original LR martial arts were practice the techniques, learn the applicatons, then SPAR

A lot of systems were like that before people saw $$ signs in student's eyes and saw forms as an easy way to string people along and waste their time while they paid a monthly tuition

Sad thing is, today some of these guys don't even realize that that is what happened and just mimic the same pattern

[MasterKiller]

Originally posted by Merryprankster
oh, no, let's hear the whole thing. Mods PMed me to ask me not to bust you out. Whew.

[Merryprankster]

fascinating.

[lkfmdc]

Originally posted by MasterKiller
lkfmdc,
Do you think training with outdated or antiquated weapons at all can translate into proficiency with newer tools? For example, could monk spade play translate into solid ability with a shovel, or Waxwood staff to a pool cue?

let's put it this way, suppose I wanted to learn to drive

I take a can of corn and put it on the floor as the accelorator

I take a can of soup and put in on the floor as the break

I lean a broom against the end table so I can change gears

I grab a dinner plate to be my wheel

Could I learn to drive eventually this way? Maybe. But I'd sure as heck be quicker and better off going to a driving school and getting in a real car....

[red5angel]

I had a teacher who cut through all the BS

he taught you sanda?


As opposed to TCMA where a few guys learn to fight only after years and trial and error


too much generalisation in this sentence. Especially following that first sentence.

[lkfmdc]

red.... read S L O W L Y

Chan Tai San was a San Da instructor in the PLA.

I'll stop a second so you can take notes...

When he wanted a student of his to learn, he cut to the real stuff, but like most Chinese teachers, he also wasn't beyond teaching people what they wanted to learn, even if it wouldn't do crap for them, as long as they were willing to pay for it...


Face the cold hard fact, how many students training in TCMA schools in this country have effective useable skills in 6 months?

Put them in with 6 month San da students and let them spar full contact, with knees, throws, whatever

The classic "I know this guy who is a great fighter" just proves the point, you know A GUY but out of how many?

[red5angel]

Chan Tai San was a San Da instructor in the PLA


ok, I'd never heard this said before, now I know.




Face the cold hard fact, how many students training in TCMA schools in this country have effective useable skills in 6 months?

Not many.


Put them in with 6 month San da students and let them spar full contact, with knees, throws, whatever

Ok, so what your saying is sanda is the no bull CMA? That there are no bad Sanda teachers and no bad sanda students? That somehow sanda has pulled in only quality instructors? Or is it that at the moment sanda is a relative unknown, and in the foreseeable future we're going to start seeing sanda for health and your typical "I learned sanda for a year and am now qualified to open a school" syndrome?
Are you standing on your mountain, and proclaiming that your mountain is the more solid of all the mountains all the other guys are standing at the top proclaiming as well?

Don't get me wrong Ross, I'm not calling you a liar by any means. I would be willing to bet your students are top quality students, hands down. I absolutely believe that training needs to be changed for traditional schools and I mostly agree with what you are saying about training methods and all that. I disagree with your method of over generalizing, I've met some pretty good TMA instructors and students.
Sometimes it's a matter of perspective too. For instance I enjoy Kali immensly, granted it's not a "traditional" school by any means, it takes some time to get it down and make it work correctly, and still be accurate with it. But if I train 6 days a week, 3 hours a day, I bet in 3 months one could learn to fight in just baout any art and stand up to your 6 months guys as well.

[lkfmdc]

as long as the training is based on drills that are alive

as long as the training is based upon technique can be drilled alive

as long as you have to spar full contact in class

as long as the top students test their skills in competition

then no, San Da will not become a McMartialArt

sure, there are some losers today claiming to teach "san shou/san da" but as soon as you say "hey, I've never seen them compete" then you know they are full of crap

[red5angel]

"hey, I've never seen them compete"


so you have to compete to be legit?

[norther practitioner]

NO, but it is a prob. one of the best indicators, next to crossing hands.

[lkfmdc]

wow, this thread is terribly off topic :D

if you claim to be about fighting, yet never test yourself, you might as well be doing racquet ball, sure, it's fun and good exercise, but racquet ball players seldom consider themselves warriors :p

[Serpent]

This must be an American thing, but I'm confused with the terminology. I've mentioned this before, but never had a good answer.

You talk about San Da as though it were a style. San Da is an aspect of CMA. It's the sport fighting derivative of CMA. Say you have five guys, one studies Hung Gar, One Tai Chi, One Wing Chun, One Preying Mantis, one Northern Shaolin, for example. You have five very different martial arts there. If those guys all decided to test themselves against each other in a tournament with rules, they would fight San Da. If there were no rules, it would be a challenge match, or Gong Sau.

So, Ross, you claim to teach San Da right? But San Da is an environment, not a system. Anybody can fight in San Da. A kickboxer can enter a San Da tournament.

So what do you actually teach? What's the genesis of your fighting system that you teach to students?

You were originally a CMA guy, so you must use a fair amount of those principles in your teaching. In which case, are you teaching an evolved CMA?

[brothernumber9]

So for this tournament, other than Sifu Robinson, anyone know who else is involved? Any Jow ga practitioners know of anything?

[Pork Chop]

I wouldn't be suprised if it was Robinson by himself.
It seems with the success of the Wong tournaments the other Jow schools have decided to follow the same avenue; with Derek Johnson and his 5 tigers tournament and this one from Robinson.

[red5angel]

if you claim to be about fighting, yet never test yourself, you might as well be doing racquet ball

Agreed. But Competition and testing yourself are two different things in my mind. Competition implies going to a sponsored or hosted event, usually to earn places, trophies, or medals. I test myself every other week by sparring, and by attending the local fight nights form time to time and I've never been in an event where I could win a medal or a place.

[lkfmdc]

Not a personal attack on Serpent, but his post represents exactly the sort of uninformed and ignorant ramblings which people rely on as the basis of their "arguments"


Originally posted by Serpent
You talk about San Da as though it were a style.



It IS a style. It is a program created by the Chinese military to teach Chinese martial arts FIGHTING effectively and efficiently.



Originally posted by Serpent


It's the sport fighting derivative of CMA.



NO, again, you are WRONG. The "sport" is a live way of testing your skils. But San Shou/San Da started in the Chinese military, where the express intent was to teach people how to KILL with their hands.


Originally posted by Serpent


Say you have five guys, one studies Hung Gar, One Tai Chi, One Wing Chun, One Preying Mantis, one Northern Shaolin, for example. You have five very different martial arts there. If those guys all decided to test themselves against each other in a tournament with rules, they would fight San Da. If there were no rules, it would be a challenge match, or Gong Sau.



You do realize that people from all systems go to Thailand, get in teh ring and fight under Muay Thai rules don't you? Does that mean there is no style of Muay Thai?

If a Shuai Jiao guy enters a Judo tournament, Judo no longer exists as a style?

Of course, I have to note that people from TCMA schools do in fact enter competitions, they usually lose, and the loss is usually an ugly one when facing someone who actually does San Da and trains for fighting.


Originally posted by Serpent

So, Ross, you claim to teach San Da right? But San Da is an environment, not a system. Anybody can fight in San Da. A kickboxer can enter a San Da tournament.




I don't "claim", I DO.... :rolleyes:

See above, San Da is a method developed by the military, and anyone can enter a competition but that doesn't mean they are doing San Da.



Originally posted by Serpent


You were originally a CMA guy, so you must use a fair amount of those principles in your teaching. In which case, are you teaching an evolved CMA?

I am still a CMA guy, I am a MODERN one, and I'm not going to repost three years worth of posts just because you weren't paying attention to any of them :rolleyes:

[brothernumber9]

There are some TCMA schools that have fighters that enter and do well or even win some comps aren't there?

[X_plosion]

Thank you very much to all who posted. I appreciate the sharing of opinions regarding the tournament in question, the links to other tournament websites as well as the discussions on CMA in sport and application.

In answer to the questions asked, I posted because some people in my City are CMA practitioners who became interested in the idea of visiting the U.S.A tournaments to compete and watch. This interest was further strengthened when I told them about the Jade Dragon tournament invitation that was sent to me. Now, most of them don't use the internet regularly, so they asked me to do some research. I immediately thought of this forum.

Some would like to compete in fighting, others in forms. They think that participation and bringing the news back might help in the drive to promote CMA in our community. This is going on very actively now, so there are some kind-hearted people here who are open to help sponsor some participants' expenses if the trip could have enough positive impact for all concerned.

The links to sites that were provided on this thread were very helpful. The way things are going, the tournaments you have referred to might be the ones given priority when presenting the case to potential sponsors.

Also, the discussions on sport vs art, applications and training, were thought provoking. CMA tournaments are less common in the Philippines than those of Karate, Kickboxing or Arnis. That is why this information is very much appreciated.

Once again, thanks to all!

[lkfmdc]

sorry we took the thread off topic, but glad you got something out of it anyway :D

[Ray Pina]

1) Is this an open tournament, or do you have to be invited? How much to enter for fighting?

2) To get value out of this board one can't get defensive. Mr. Ross produces fighters in a short time; no doubt about it. The ring is not what makes a style/art legit, the confidence it instills in its students to enter into a ring and feel safe does. Seeing how many students are willing to throw down is a good indecation.

3) Learning 18 weapons is traditional and lovely.... Can you manage it? The boxer has few techniques (jab, upper cut, hook, cross, over hand) but what karate or kung fu guy -- or gracie -- can play with them on a professional level (not golden glove)?

4) MP can be Ralek, but when we posts as MP he offers a logical other side to the argument that I find value in ... even if he can be a pain in the a$$.

[Merryprankster]

MP can be Ralek,

if you genuinely believe this, you're going on my ignore list. i don't have time for idiots.

[backbreaker]

So it is fair to say Ralek= Unmerryprankster or Xmerryprankster

No I'm just joking. WHo would go to that trouble to troll?

[Serpent]

Originally posted by lkfmdc
Not a personal attack on Serpent, but his post represents exactly the sort of uninformed and ignorant ramblings which people rely on as the basis of their "arguments"

It IS a style. It is a program created by the Chinese military to teach Chinese martial arts FIGHTING effectively and efficiently.

NO, again, you are WRONG. The "sport" is a live way of testing your skils. But San Shou/San Da started in the Chinese military, where the express intent was to teach people how to KILL with their hands.

You do realize that people from all systems go to Thailand, get in teh ring and fight under Muay Thai rules don't you? Does that mean there is no style of Muay Thai?

If a Shuai Jiao guy enters a Judo tournament, Judo no longer exists as a style?

Of course, I have to note that people from TCMA schools do in fact enter competitions, they usually lose, and the loss is usually an ugly one when facing someone who actually does San Da and trains for fighting.

I don't "claim", I DO.... :rolleyes:

See above, San Da is a method developed by the military, and anyone can enter a competition but that doesn't mean they are doing San Da.

I am still a CMA guy, I am a MODERN one, and I'm not going to repost three years worth of posts just because you weren't paying attention to any of them :rolleyes:
I hear what you're saying, but to me it's semantics. San da is a codified set of rules for fighting. Muay Thai is a style that has rules set for its competition, so of course it's still MT if another artist enters.

From your definition, San Da would seem to be the MMA of CMA. Fair enough, but that's not how I know it. You can accuse me of "uninformed and ignorant ramblings" all you like, but it's just a matter of semantics.

From what you've said, I'll have to consider now San Da, the style, as propogated by yourself and similar schools, and san da, the concept, as practiced by the majority of CMA schools worth their salt.

[Ray Pina]

I don't believe it. Just saying it doesn't matter and that I enjoy your posts, that they have logical value.

[lkfmdc]

Serpent needs to change his screen name to Cleopatra....

[brothernumber9]

so now there's san da, and san da concepts. Next thing you know they'll start incorporating filipino martial arts and muay thai and then there'll be a big blurred division between those that do san da, san da concepts, and jun fan san da.

[Merryprankster]

e-fist;

thank you. it's all cool.

one of these days, when i've healed up and met my goals, i'd love to work with you some time.

however, i insist that we go to joe's shanghai on pell st for soup dumplings.

[Ray Pina]

Sounds like a plan. I'd love to roll with someone of your level, I'm sure I'd learn a lot.

Heal up.

[FatherDog]

Originally posted by Serpent

I hear what you're saying, but to me it's semantics. San da is a codified set of rules for fighting. Muay Thai is a style that has rules set for its competition, so of course it's still MT if another artist enters.

The impression I'd gotten (and Ross can correct me if I'm incorrect) is that it's a situation similar to SAMBO.

SAMBO was developed for the Russian military from a blend of Judo, karate, boxing, and native wrestling styles. Because it was a blend and not a direct base of any of them, it became a new and separate style - SAMBO. SAMBO then developed a codified set of rules for competition, which did not include all SAMBO techniques.

San Da was developed out of a blend of native Chinese styles as well as influences from elsewhere, for the PRC military. It was also codified into rules for competition, which didn't include all San Da techniques.

So it is a style, and a set of competition rules.

Does this make sense?

[lkfmdc]

Father Dog pretty much re-posted 3 years worth of posts, and demonstrated he was paying attention

Serpent is still in his own world


Originally posted by FatherDog


The impression I'd gotten (and Ross can correct me if I'm incorrect) is that it's a situation similar to SAMBO.

SAMBO was developed for the Russian military from a blend of Judo, karate, boxing, and native wrestling styles. Because it was a blend and not a direct base of any of them, it became a new and separate style - SAMBO. SAMBO then developed a codified set of rules for competition, which did not include all SAMBO techniques.

San Da was developed out of a blend of native Chinese styles as well as influences from elsewhere, for the PRC military. It was also codified into rules for competition, which didn't include all San Da techniques.

So it is a style, and a set of competition rules.

Does this make sense?

[Serpent]

Originally posted by lkfmdc
Father Dog pretty much re-posted 3 years worth of posts, and demonstrated he was paying attention

Serpent is still in his own world


Man, you can be an antsy little *****.

I actually like what Fatherdog wrote and it doesn't seem so far from my understanding of the terms. Hey, I'm learning here. I've never encountered San Da as a style before, but I fought plenty of San Da matches.

So, I don't study San Da as a style, but I could enter a San Da tournament that lkmdc organised, right? In which case I'd be using my style in his environment. Yes or no?