conditioning drills

[Ernie]

hey guys just wanted to pick your brains on some basic conditiong drills [ wing chun oriented ]
I'm currently writing up a curriculum for beginners , and it dawned on me I have always worked with very fit people so my expectations are very high , and since I do some personal training on the side , I could really go off on a tangent

I never really had to go threw them since I was already in shape and had fight conditioning before wing chun .


so what can the average person take , what are some of the basic day one drills that you find most helpful
what are some of the solo drills you find you actually stick to at home .

now this is really from a beginner stand point , once they get a foundation , then getting some one in fight shape is easy , it's were my knowledge base is strong .

but I have never really brought some one up from scratch

any ideas would be appreciated

thank you Ernie

p.s. you can email me if you don't want to put stuff out in the open

[yuanfen]

Ernie- straddling and jumping on and off a knee level bench
is one of many possible conditioning exercises for beginners.


Have to buildup the reps so nothing(muscles/ligaments are yanked.

[Simon]

* 100 punches a day

then 200, then 300 etc :)

same with kicks, in the air, against focus mits, against a heavy bag

* some running/skipping

* sparring

* and forms.

Phewww! enough for me!

[FooFighter]

1. Jumping rope. Builds cardio, coordination, lower explosive strength, and warms up.

2. Dynamic flexibility found in wushu and most gung fu schools. Passive static stretches actually weaken your performance.

3. Specific hand/ Forearm wing chun specific strength training. If your hands, wrist, and forearm are weak, what is the use of learning to punch.

4. The First Form. Develops static strength, core stability, and teaches the proper hands in wing chun

5. Shifting the horse and punch. Learn to how to coordination of lower body in unity with upper body.

6. Tan Da/Gan Da drills against round attacks. This doesnt teach them how to stop hooks, but how properly react to cover and attack at the same time, use leverage, horse, and etc.

7. Some fundamental technques

8. Don Chi Sao

9. Basic body weight exercises found in wing chun gung fu. That strengthen your tools and develop supporting power as Duncan Leung likes to call it.

[KingMonkey]

What's 'scratch' ?
Are we starting with Mr StayPuft, a 110 lb housewife or a young bloke in their 20's who's played a bit of sports ?

My advice would depend on your/their focus and obvious areas for development Ernie.

So I can only use myself as a frame of reference.
My focus as a raw beginner was to improve my self defence chances as quickly as possible.
I'd say the simplest and best way to achieve that initially is through chain punching drills and developing the speed of delivery to make these effective and the muscular endurance to keep banging away for some time.

My punching training used to include the following.
Punch on wall bag til just before knuckles start to bleed.
100 chain punches in the air (approx 80%)
Straight down for 10 plyometric style push ups ie dynamic push off the floor attempting to raise whole body as far away from it as possible.
I considered this one 'set' and at one stage worked myself up to 6 sets.

Greater experience has taught me that punching immovable objects like wall bags mounted on concrete walls is just plain silly and is something left in WC by people who still insist on 'tying up the cat'.

I would also suggest that the following website has some good overall bodyweight exercises which can be a good starting point for someone just getting into physical training.

http://www.trainforstrength.com/workouts.shtml

I have recently started practicing yoga and think it is a great choice for those of us who came to MA's as an adult and dont have a great deal of flexibility.
It develops a number of non specific attributes which bleed over into WC practice.

1) Flexibility
2) Muscular endurance
3) Muscular efficiency
4) Targeted relaxation
5) All body awareness and control

Plus it gives me an excuse to wear those natty leotards !!
j/k :D

[Gangsterfist]

When I first started wing chun this was my work out regime:

1)1000 chain punches
2)1000 kicks (practice a different kick each day 1000 times)
2)SLT (at least 3 times)
3)100 calf raises
4)100 push ups
5)100 crunches
5)flexibility training
6) low horse stance, bow and arrow stance, and cat stance (switch stances when you get too tired to hold the current one) for like 15 min or so.


Now, I will get a bit more specific and practice other forms.

[Ernie]

hey thanks guys

scratch = nonphysical individual that is drawn in by the wing chun myth that ie requires no conditioning

the kind of people that are drawn to me , are people that allready have a good foundation but want to amp up there attributes and / or get into more contact stuff
this is what i'm good at
and why i don't want students persay but just to coach people and help them improve and take things up to a level they were not sure how to get to

but recently i have been turning away people that wanted to learn they system from day one as raw beginers , but they were very how can i put this ''out of shape ''

and to be honest my time is very limited and my private rates are not cheap , and there is no way i can just take some ones money and have them sit in a stance and do basic drills . it's not in me to rob people like that
so i thought i could give them a basic plan to work on , solo training and conditioning and bring them up to a level that they can get the most out of some hands on training

i'm just toying with the idea , so i asked you wonderful group of lunitics :D to pass on what personal drills you actualy stuck with and in turn became meaningful
i know what works for me , but i came into the game with years of conditioning so i can't really go by my experience

i am really thankful for your input

[lawrenceofidaho]

Ernie,

something that's worked very well for me is having a three different workouts for each area of focus I am training; one "standard" workout, plus a short one, and an extended one.

The standard one is what I do most of the time, but I also have the abbreviated one for days that I am really crunched for time, or am not feeling well. -This way, I stay true to my commitment to the training (no skipping workouts, -ever!), without pushing myself too hard when I'm not 100%, or hurting another priority in my life by having a rigid and inflexible schedule.

The "extended" workout is for when; I have plenty of time, my energy level is high, or I'm in a "groove" and want to just keep going.......:D

For my daily solo training, short workouts can be as little as 15 minutes. A standard workout about 30-40 minutes, and a long workout can be well over an hour. -By having the flexibility to choose between the three, I never miss a day, and always honor my promise to myself about staying commited to my goals.

So if you give a beginner only ONE workout, maybe they will say to themselves; "I am just too tired today." -and skip training altogether, but if they have the alternative of a shorter workout to choose from as well, maybe it's more likely that they will begin to build a good habit of staying consistant with what they do.

-Lawrence

[Gangsterfist]

Ernie,

Are we talking conditioning geared towards kung fu? Wing Chun specific? Or are we talking body building, getting in shape, working out type stuff? Or both?

I have new training I do now like iron plam, qigong, inverted breathing, yoga stretches, etc. All of my conditioning and working out is totally geared towards being a martial artist, the health benefits just happen to be a good side effect of my training.

[PaulH]

Ernie,

I was in a better shape with Jean Marc and Chan back then than now. They made Kolja and I jogging and skipping in large running circle on toes, with high raised knees hugging chest, with criss-crossing legs, or with ankles hitting back of thighs, etc. Then the pushup and pullup varieties are done in short intense and immediate intervals. The only complaint I will say is that I got so tired and winded afterward that not much energy is left for the training. I guess you can only do one thing at a time. But heck, I was in shape!

Regards,
PH

[Ernie]

lawrenceofidaho


great idea thank you for sharing:)


Gangsterfist

wing chun as for over conditioning i do personal fitness training on the side so that area is covered , though in my mind to be a good martial artist one's instrument [ there body ] should be finely tuned

paul

you can do both when you achieve a level of conditioning often
before class i run and after class on the weekend i take my girl for a 3 mile run then work focus mitts and i'm still good to go out all ngiht :D

now the next day is a bit rough

[AndrewS]

Ernie,

call. I have ideas.

Screw the ballistic stuff at first- you'll hurt people.

Andrew

[Ernie]

Ernie,

call. I have ideas.

Screw the ballistic stuff at first- you'll hurt people.

Andrew


haha **** you know me to well don't you
he man we need to get some dinner and chill soon boys night out
had a real nice time hanging with dhira last sunday
it was shocking we didn't train just hung out haha i must be getting old :D

[Ultimatewingchun]

Ernie:

If I read you right..and this thread is about how to get people who are out of shape into shape - so that you can give them some lessons and not feel as though you're cheating them...

then give them some basic stuff to do and let them come back after they've done it...after all - the have to do the work - not just expect you to hand them the silver bullet.

Simple basic stuff...

Stretching exercises: (head-to-toe)
Pushups
Situps
Hindu squats (builds legs AND endurance)
jump rope (or run at least 1 mile - every other day).
Some basic punching drills
Some basic kicking drills

That's it.

[CFT]

I was pretty out of shape when I (re-)started Wing Chun about 6 months ago, although I had been swimming once/twice a week for about 3 months beforehand to build up some kind of aerobic capacity. Something I need to get back into .....

It still did not prepare me for my first lesson though .... what with the knuckle push-ups and punching, my arms were aching for a whole week!!

So if you don't want to take advantage of the student, which is very commendable, then also get them to take some "regular" lessons to help build on the physical conditioning and the basics.

I follow much along the lines of sifu Parlati's basics:

1) Basic warmup - jumping jacks, running on spot
2) Knuckle push-ups
3) Sit-ups
4) Leg raises whilst lying on back
5) Squats into wide horse stance (sei ping ma)
6) Siu Nim Tao
7) Punching drills: chain punching, pak-da, tan-da, bong-da, gan-da, gum-da
8) Chi sau hand positions (can only do dan chi at the moment)
9) Siu Nim Tao
10) Legs raises whilst standing up
11) Kicking drills: front snap kick, heel stamp kick, side kick - probably not using the right terms here.
12) Siu Nim Tao

I would like to work some footwork exercises in but since I've only done some, not alot, of it in class, I don't have any good ideas.

I like Lawrence's idea of short, standard and extended workouts. I kind of have a short workout: just do Siu Nim Tao a few times :p

[Gangsterfist]

We sometimes take like 20 punches in the abdomen at 50% power or less to help condition us against taking hits every now and again.

Cardio cardio cardio - is one thing my training lacks (not for long just bought a new pair of jogging shoes). So I am going to up my cardio here in the next month or so