Learning new forms...

[Gangsterfist]

Just curious, do any of you learn any other forms of martial arts outside of wing chun? Why do you do it? Is it for the benefit of knowing what else is out there, or is it because of the love you have for martial arts?

I recently just learned a southern dragon short form (19 postures) which is simple and easy to remember. I think it helps build attributes outside what wing chun teaches. I am not saying one is superior or inferior just different.

thoughts?

[KenWingJitsu]

The thought of learning new 'forms' gives me seizures......I've learned plenty in my time.

[Gangsterfist]

Thats cool, its all personal preference. I pretty much think about kung fu all day long when I am not training. So whenever I get the chance to learn something new, its like a christmas present to me.

[blooming lotus]

ditto...

I have no intention of ceasing to learn new forms...there are that many that you could dedicate a good few lifetimes and still miss some ;)

[anerlich]

I learned and still practice ten forms in the KF style I did before I practiced Wing Chun. Good stuff, lots of direction changes with multiopponent applications

I also know EVERY form in Brazilian Jiu Jitsu. :cool:

[blooming lotus]

every form????

who are you...Royce Gracie??:D

[yuanfen]

every-formless.
no forms in the CMA sense.

[Gangsterfist]

Eventually your training should be formless some would say. I train my wing chun forms, misc forms (dragon, and mini forms - like elbow postures), taijiquan, and okinawan karate forms still.

Each of them is very different and build different dynamic aspects of training. However, there are also similarities across them all.

The question is, how much can you learn from a form?

[FSY]

I'd love to learn the Five Animal and/or the Tiger-Crane form(s) of Hung-Ga.

I don't know if I'd ever learn how to apply any or all of the techniques found in the forms, but simply using them as an interesting form of exercise seems like a cool idea to me.

[Gangsterfist]

I know a dragon form, and learned part of a tiger form a while back ago.

One of my new teachers who I will start training with probably next month, originally learned the 7 animals of shaolin. I plan on trying to get him to teach me crane one of these days. It just make take a few years of training with him though. I like the crane because of the principles behind it. Like a crane is never rooted, which is well opposite of everything else I have already learned.

There are animal like postures in some of the forms I already know and practice, but I agree with you. The animal forms are very beautiful.

[PaulH]

GF,

There is one ultimate form. If you like learning different forms master this one first. =)

"Form is emptiness, emptiness is form"

Regards,
PH

[yuanfen]

GF- I am interested in watching and learning some essential things about many martail arts... and I even (gasp) watch some MMA- spent some time yesterday watching some K1 replay.

But I dont take time away from wing chun to learn other "forms" in depth.

It gives me intelligence on what is out there and helps inform/clarify my understanding of my art-on how some problems or puzzles are approached differently or comparatively.

yuanfen

[Gangsterfist]

Crimson-

Cool bro I will check it out, I always try to keep an open mind.

[Ultimatewingchun]

I would rather fight a 400 lb. gorilla than learn another form...

Don't get me wrong - I do SLT very often...chum kil, bil jee and WD occasionally (maybe about twice a month)...the same with the Butterfly Sword and Dragon Pole forms.

But that's enough...

After awhile the "swimming on dry land" thing begins to kick in.

Show me the applications and drills and I'll take it from there.

Keepin' it real...

[old jong]

I too have enough to work with only the Wing Chun forms.I will usualy practice all the forms everyday a certain number of times. But,I don't feel the "swimming on dry land thing" because (IMO) the forms are development and applications and sparring drills are something else.

[Ernie]

1 experience is better then 1000 forms

unless you just like to wave your arms around in the park :)

[Gangsterfist]

Originally posted by Ernie
1 experience is better then 1000 forms

unless you just like to wave your arms around in the park :)

Hmm, I can't say I am shocked I expected an answer like that from you. Thats okay though. :D

Let me give an example of what I learned from this dragon form, and why I think its a great new attribute and experience. In the form they have chain punching, but its not like wing chun. Instead of the front hand dropping to allow the back hand to take its place, your fists simeltaniously move in a circular motion. Kind of like turning a steering wheel that is up at an angle. This is great for sparring with gloves. Sometimes gloves get in the way, and sometimes wing chunners can't adapt to the difference of gloves Vs bare knuckles. Also when angling in at an opponet one of their bridges may be blocking or obstructing the path of your next chain punch. This circling motion comes handy here as well just avoiding the bridge all together. Its not superior in anyway, its just different. Its a good tool to have, and I have already combat tested in sparring with some brothers of mine and it worked.

And hey, I like to wave my hands around in the park sometimes, I find it relaxing. :D

[Ernie]

oh my god i can't believe how i am going to answer this because it will sound like it came from joy :)


you just learned how to functionalize a wing chun hand while having an experience .
but another art opened up the line or idea for you

trust me when i tell you wing chun supplies you with all the seeds to answer most of your questions

but you need to apply it in a non static adaptive enviroment

[ o.k. now i'm back to sounding like me ]

here in lies the problem , people that do forms to much become fixed the over program themselves and they are not making the concept of the form organic .

meaning they are tofocused on fitting the fixed form into the non fixed enviroment

example -- you can't punch or trap with gloves on right
well you wont be able to if you try and apply the exact same routes as you do in a fixed form

you need to adapt and make it functional then you can still apply the essence of the concept behind the form



another thing people in my experience that do forms all the time can't relate those actions to a living changeing enviroment

they have programmed the shape or action so much that they just do it with out feeling or fitting it int by what there feeling is telling them

trapped by the form

i have always seen the forms as a table of contents were i need to fill in the chapters by way of personal experience

as long as i am gaining experience those chapters will grow
no need to start another book '' form '' if i haven't spent ample time reading and writing the first one [ darn i sound like joy again]

you would have come to the same discoveries had you just kept working on applying your wing chun tools in different sparring enviroments

but i will agree some time stepping outside and looking in helps you see things as well:D

[old jong]

As long as someone sees the forms as a "bag of tricks" or a "technical encyclopedia" of Wing Chun or something similar,instead of "development", you will feel like trying and testing every motions in all possible ways and venues.

Forms,Chi Sau and sparring drills are all equally important in Wing Chun for all their particular reasons. But, is playing Bruce Lee really better than waving hands in the parc?...There should be a balance somewhere between these two.;)

[yuanfen]

No Ernie..."functionalize" (?) is not part of my vocabulary<g>.Too vague.!!

Economy!---forms and applications are both important. In the process with experience- you make wing chun your very own.

Hit when you should-dont hit when you shouldn't.!!

Fight, flight or tea- simple!

[Gangsterfist]

Ernie,

I agree bro. You have to question your training and look at it from outside the box to fully understand it. I am not saying I would have not picked up on that if I had never learned the form. A lot of southern forms of kung fu are alike. No BS, straight to the point combat. A lot of them are very similar in concepts and tecnique, they are just applied in different manners.

I am very lucky in the sense I get to train with all these different martial artists. Not too many people get that chance or opportunity.

The movements in a form are an idea, a concept, motions. They are there to analyze the motions, not to be applied litterally. You have to adapt them to combat.

There are other aspects of the form I like too. Its small (like 17 postures I don't know the exact number, but I know its under 20 and I don't want to bust the form out here at work and count them hehe) effecient, to the point combat oriented. The bik ma(sp?) or pressing stance in the form works great for sticking and putting pressure on your opponet. It works well with wing chun, and is not found in wing chun. there are swallowing and spitting techniques that work well and are also not found in wing chun (due to the dragon back curved spine posture).

Its just different, and gives me more ideas and concepts I can apply in combat. Its good exercise too, and good for developing technique. So, overall it will benefit my kung fu (in my view)

Plus, dude, dragons are pretty cool. ;)

[Ernie]

oj
But, is playing Bruce Lee really better than waving hands in the parc?...


of course its better to play bruce , you will get in good shape and be able to run away when you need to :D


joy
No Ernie..."functionalize" (?) is not part of my vocabulary<g>.Too vague.!!


thank god i thought you were rubbing off on me ha ha

;)


gfist
your life is just that yours , man if whipping the dragons tail makes you happy and you can draw the line to something else then it's the right thing to do

my training partner is an old school tai chi guy and his wing chun is the better for it ,

he even wants to teach me tai chi
i told him i'll trade for every lesson he needs to spar me run 3 miles or work out for an hour ha ha ha

i'll get that ******* functional [ sorry joy ] if it kills him

:D

[KingMonkey]

I dont learn any forms over and above the basic WC forms (which I rarely practice) and have no desire to. Forms for me are an alphabet. Once you know it it's time to try and communicate and no end of learning new alphabets or agonizing about whether you are dotting the 'i's and crossing the 't's perfectly will help you communicate better.

Like Ernie says these things need to be used in a live changeing environment. I train sometimes with a guy who's 6' 5, I am 5' 8. I learned fairly quickly that if I wanted my bong sau to work rather than guide his fist toward my face I needed to step outside the standard way it's done in the form. Ditto for lots of other stuff. Once you experience this enough the penny drops.

But that reflects my motivations and interests. Good luck to anyone who wants to do lots of forms, just dont kid yourselves it's improving your fighting ability.

[Gangsterfist]

I think if I combine my training ideas and skills with someone like yours, ernie, I'd be a mushroom cloud laying motha*ucka, Motha*ucka!

That is why I train with people like you ernie. The people who drill hard work outs and cardio in me until I collapse are definately helping me out. I don't think I would do it on my own as hard as I do when I train with them. They are a good influence. OTOH, I also train with people like me and develope skill sets different than other people. Different in a sense that I learn as much as I can from every possible person, and practice things outside wing chun.

I for one practice the SLT everyday at the very least. I also try to practice the first short from from taiji everyday. Why? Because there are no ill effects from it, and it only takes a few minutes of my time.

However, we are all different, and I am a firm believer that our imperfections make us unique.

[yuanfen]

king monkey- imo- forms are more than an aphabet...there is grammar and flow there- how to get from bong to lan or vice versa.

In " sparring" you learn againsta specific person-that's not the person you are likely to meet in real life.

The forms give you the generic flows from motion to motion. Its important to understand both the generic and the variety of applications.

In imitative Ernielingo- you need to functionalze to get the attributes!! Whatever that means<VBG>.The tyrrany of language!

[Ernie]

joy
[In " sparring" you learn againsta specific person-that's not the person you are likely to meet in real life.
]


bro that's not the way i learned to look at it
when you spar in what ever form , you are dealing with pressure and energy on your body , it's not about the other person but learning to maintain that balance and position and mental control under this pressure

doesn't matter what line or type of fighter he is [ just like in a street fight you don't know but there will be aggressive energy of some sorts ]

so when i spar i am only concerned with me and what i feel and how i adapt

i treat each situation or person as i have never seen them before and empty my mind . this is what i mean by progressive with specific skill being the intent

not just going in trying to score hits

and to be honest i see more of this trying to score hits in peoples approach to chi sau then anywhere else '' go figure ''

joy
[In imitative Ernielingo- you need to functionalze to get the attributes!! Whatever that means<VBG>.The tyrrany of language!]

it's the simple direct and effective way of saying , stop talking and start doing :D


gfist

thank you for the compliment , but you seem to be on your path and that is the best path for you .

I spend just as much time in refining energy and position as I do breaking a sweat

but I have met so many people that talk such a good game and then when I work with them they are empty ,
or they pull the I can't do it but I know this guy blah blah
I just don't want to be one of those people so I train in all aspects
and try to keep things real honest if I can't do it then I don't talk about it .
for me it's about being the best that I can be , and this means leaving no stone unturned , never hiding behind my sifu or some one else's accomplishments
never just being a sheep that follows blindly , but trying to lead and give back

I will be wrong as much as I am right and people will rip me apart

and point out every flaw

but if you don't take chances and step up , you will never really gain anything but a shadow of some one else ,

you seem very comfortable walking in the sunlight my friend
:D

[Gangsterfist]

Also, what joy pointed out earlier was a good point about forms collecting. I am not collecting forms to show them off. I practice real application of each movement from the form. I single hand chi sao myself in the mirror. I do taiji in the park in the morning when there are no people. I meet up with a few of my brothers and get work out very hard and get sore for a few days. Then recover and repeat. One of the best martial artists I ever met, was a very untraditional one. He won't charge for classes, its free. His classes are like 4 hours long, 1 hour stretch/warm up, 1 hour hard work out, 2 hour kung fu. He won't let you call him sifu, and he just teaches stuff that works. Nothing fancy or flashy. You can't just show up for his class whenever you want either. You have to go through the tough work outs or he won't teach you. His classes are free, but he weeds out the loafers by doing it his way. I respect that, and plan on training with him in the near future, probably starting next month (I gotta work out my new kung fu schedule with work).

So, why then practice forms? Why not be formless? Well, for one if you ever plan on teaching kung fu you should be very fluent in the forms, and even on your bad days look good at doing them. I don't ever plan on opening up a school or anything, but if I ever have kids I am definately going to teach them, and I look forward to helping junior students in my class.

Forms also help build attributes. Do a taiji long form, and I assure you your quads will be sore.

My sifu once told me:

Kung Fu is like rolling a huge boulder upstream a river. It's hard work, and if you take one day off you'll get pushed back 3 days from where you last were.

Forms, will not make you a good fighter.

[Ultimatewingchun]

Forms are like a battery-charger...

You need to occasionally go back and recharge the battery within your mind and your muscle memory...

The exception being SLT... it should be done frequently....because all the most important wing chun moves are there AND it can provide an INSTANT charge of "energy" (chi)... into your battery in a LITERAL sense..

But other than that....

YOU TAKE VERY VALUABLE TIME AWAY from other more important tasks...like drilling and ADAPTING what comes out of the forms into ...

LIVE ACTION WITH A RESISTING OPPONENT....

This is where a point of diminishing returns really kicks in and the continued performance of forms becomes counter-productive....

even SLT can become counter-productive if done too much.

IT'S ABOUT TIME MANAGEMENT.

[Gangsterfist]

Victor says:


...like drilling and ADAPTING what comes out of the forms into ...


Hmmm, I have heard many different views on "drilling" from many different practitioners.

Can you explain more about your idea of drilling?

[Ultimatewingchun]

For example...the third section teaches the correct way to do garn sao...

Have someone throw various low line punches at you and practice (drill) using your garn sao against them.

[Gangsterfist]

so, you are using it in terms of doing driils, or sets of movements to build muscle memory etc.

Not, drilling, like drilling into your opponet.

[JAFO]

I was always curious why, when watching some people spar or Chi Sao, their positions and motions bear little or no resemblance to their forms. I should have known. Different schools out there have different priorities.

I was never a big fan of forms, and prior to coming to Wing Chun I was a big adherent to the school of thought that forms represent 'vertical death' and repetitious practice of them after learning them was basically a waste of good sparring or conditioning time.

I don't do my WC forms because I enjoy some spiritual experience or innermost enlightenment (although I respect that sentiment in those who do). I do my forms because it makes my positions stronger, more instinctual and automatic, and more correct in general. To the extent that I work on them, the forms work for me, not the other way around. I work on them because I recognize what happens for me when I hit a position right and I recognize what happens when I hit it wrong. 'Correct' works so much better for me than 'incorrect', and sometimes the difference between the two can be extremely small.

As for the time spent on forms, I find that the 10 minutes or so I spend doing my open hand and dummy forms is time very well spent. My ideal is to hit my forms everyday, which is not the same thing as me saying I actually do them everyday.

My sifu leads by example. He does all of his forms at least a couple times a day, 30 years and counting now. He's just about obsessed with them. I think the results show - in the years I've known him, I've never seen him miss a position unless it was as a demonstration of what not to do or in a training mode. What impresses me is that he is still making new connections and working on 'new' combinations after all this time. There's nothing he does that doesn't come out of one or more of the forms. I guess he is serious about it when he says it really doesn't ever end.

For those whose priorities are different, I'm sure that works for you and I recognize that there is more than one path out there. I have chosen this path.

[kj]

Originally posted by JAFO
I do my forms because it makes my positions stronger, more instinctual and automatic, and more correct in general.

Excellent post and well received, JAFO.

I too highly value my forms work, to a degree that can hardly be overstated. Not for aesthetic reasons. (My sets sure don't make for impressive demos, and they'd bomb at the box office, LOL.) Often enough, the pain and strain of performing them properly is enough to moderate what might otherwise be a sense of pleasure as well. Like you, I do them and value them for far more pragmatic reasons - in particular, to improve everything else that I do.

My forms are the workshop within which I refine my posture, positions, methods of movement, and build a host of physical and psychological attributes essential for optimizing the other elements of my training (e.g., other solo work, partner work, and various forms of chi sau). They are also repositories of knowledge for my continued mining, as well as for future generations. Even many of the concepts and principles of Wing Chun are embedded and preserved wordlessly within them. In addition to learning devices, the sets also serve as active processes for developing and conditioning myself for the tasks at hand and yet to come. Just as some are adamant about going to the gym, running, biking, yoga classes, etc. for general fitness and well-being, in a very real sense my sets embody the task specific exercises most essential and unique for development and performance of this particular art.

Interestingly, I have found a direct and highly significant correlation in my overall performance and improvement when I am practicing the forms more regularly and diligently. Conversely, irregular practice of my sets tends to result in impeded progress overall, most especially in application. The decline in performance becomes most profoundly and painfully evident when others mop the floor with me.

Whenever I need to remedy or diagnose a problem in working with others, my two most reliable sources are my teacher and my sets. [I might add that since I only have the privilege to see my teacher in person a few times each year, I rely very heavily on my sets to tide me through and ensure growth in the interims.] This pattern and correlation of sets to overall performance is by no means unique to me; it holds for my classmates as well (both those who are near and far). It becomes readily apparent when working out which of us have been diligent and regular in performing our sets, and which of us have not.

Until I began learning under my present instructor, I did not have a competent understanding of my forms, their purpose or how to properly practice them. Not all instructors share a common understanding of the sets, nor a common appreciation of them, nor do they all put equal emphasis or care in transmitting their own knowledge, experiences and values to their students.

Based on my own experiences in learning and practicing Wing Chun, I can actually understand why some forms detractors vigorously protest wasting time on them. I can agree that it is a waste of time to continuously practice forms which are ill understood, or practiced in a hasty, haphazard or improper manner. Maybe worse than a waste of time when they ingrain bad habits instead of good ones. The old saying "Practice doesn't make perfect; perfect practice makes perfect" aptly applies. I heartily agree that it is best not to waste one's time going through hollow motions just for the sake of saying so. I further posit that for anyone who thinks or feels that their forms work is a waste of time, they are indeed and unfortunately empty work.

Being that my forms are rich, and the practice of them develops the foundation and abilities for all other elements of practice, my Wing Chun (as I know it today) would remain hollow without them. Just as a body needs air, water, food and exercise in order to grow and thrive, I need and rely upon all the various elements of my Wing Chun practice - including but not limited to the forms and chi sau. Everything in balance, and every element complimentary to the others. And the more of everything, the better, not excluding forms work. I do not spend all my time working on forms; much to the contrary. However, I would benefit greatly from more time on them.

I would go so far as to say that, in my case, serious study and careful practice of the sets has played second only to finding an exceptional instructor in momentously improving my understanding, abilities and laying the foundation for advancements yet ahead for me in Wing Chun.

I fully realize that plenty of others differ from me in terms of learning styles, attributes and innate capabilities, cumulative training experiences, personal preferences and predilections, understanding and appreciation of the sets or even Wing Chun more broadly. This merely represents a smidgen of my own experience and perspective on the subject.

Regards,
- Kathy Jo

[Gangsterfist]

This has been a good discussion so far. Thanks for everyone who put forth some input. Thanks to KJ and JAFO as well for their last posts - good stuff.

Do any of you use the SLT as a reference tool? When you are doing drills or chi sao or whatever, and stop where you are and drop back to the YJKYM and check to see your positioning by putting everything back on the center line? You could be using the chum kiu foot work freeze your position, drop back into the YJKYM and check your position of your current move. This way you can check how you are executing moves with your structure. I tend to lean just a tad bit forwards or backwards at times. This tool helped me catch it.

Any thoughts?

[kj]

Originally posted by Gangsterfist
Do any of you use the SLT as a reference tool?

Absolutely!

Among their many functions, my sets serve as calibration tools for position and movement. Note: This distinctly does not imply rigid shapes, or anything "forced."

My sets inform my chi sau and my chi sau, in all its manifestations, informs my sets. The cycles of learning and improvement are endless.

Regards,
- Kathy Jo

[Ernie]

Do any of you use the SLT as a reference tool?

yep when in doubt check the form , this is when the form has a ''real'' meaning , directly connected to a personal experience

[Gangsterfist]

I do as well.

Forms are a great learning tool. I am all about learning all I can about kung fu. Martial, internal, external, philisophical, technical, and other aspects. I learn new forms from time to time to build a new idea of training and build a new idea of attributes and apply them to how I fight. I realize that there is a world of difference from form work to fighting, but form work is where you build the ideas, motions, and movements. You don't just all of the sudden develope movements and the energies behind them with out practicing them.

I learned (how ernie put it) to functionalize my chain punching with gloves on. I found it more effecient and a smaller movement using those punches from the dragon form. My wing chun thinking is what drew it out. Effeciency and structure. I can be more effecient using non wing chun methods and still maintain my structure with gloves on.

I guess its how you think, and how your process your form work. I almost always imagine I am fighting someone with my form, that way IMHO its gives me more of and idea of what it can do when applied in combat. Now, I will also do standing meditation while doing form work as well. This is just to maintain balance, I believe too much yin or too much yang is not a productive thought or growth process. Balance between both is what I shoot for, to be nuetral.

Anyways, I will stop ranting now. If any of you have ever learned small sets or forms outside wing chun to develop skills please let me know. I do a small set or form of kicks every now and again to help build up my kicking strength. Always traint he maximum so the minimum is very easy to execute.

[Simon]

I've personally experience a huge growth lately through practicing forms, then practicing realistic application of the forms and going back to the forms so I feel some memory of that realism in the form.

Kathy Jo: "Practice doesn't make perfect; perfect practice makes perfect"

so true.

does anyone regularly use video or similar to assess themselves in motion in the forms or sparring etc to avoid bad practice?

[Gangsterfist]

Simon,

We recently just got done filming my sifu doing a ton of forms and compiling them on a DVD. Before I used to use the Augustine Fong DVD since that was the closest to my lineage. We filmed my sifu doing SLT, CK, BJ, and Dummy for Wing Chun section. The we have him doing the short and long yang taiji form, plus the taiji sword. Then we have him doing the Tai Hui forms. The film is actually really good quality (I have seen way worse ones than this), the menus are cool (my sifu designed all the menus), and all the menus function. The only down side is that FF and REW functions do not work that well. This was the first DVD we ever tried to make, so it can't be perfect.

I will watch those from time to time and try and remember the moves and mimic them as the video does.

[Simon]

Gangsterfist

sounds great, would be a valuable resource!

I'm thinking more along the lines of videoing your own form from different angles doing forms / drills / free sparring etc to assess yourself. I'm thinking of doing it with my teaching as well to improve my expression of ideas.

[Gangsterfist]

Well it took time and effort to port all the raw video onto a computer. Compile all the clips and edit them in premeire. Export all the clips with music to encore. Then lastly finalize it by tracking the audio and video together. Then linking every button to the proper video. My kung fu brother did all the work. He did a good just too. I just set it up for him (I work in the IT field) and he did all the grunt work.

After all that is done the last step is just burning it on DVD. So far it has turned out real well.

We were going to do an out takes "dvd extra menu" of all the mess ups but they weren't really that funny. Our next project will be more in depth. Probably break down each form into each section and explain and show application of each movement. This was our first project, so we kept it somewhat simple. So, I highly recomend you do the same if you got the time and resources for your students. Its a great reference tool.

[kj]

Originally posted by Simon
I'm thinking more along the lines of videoing your own form from different angles doing forms / drills / free sparring etc to assess yourself. I'm thinking of doing it with my teaching as well to improve my expression of ideas.

I and the members of our group do periodically videotape our workout sessions. The main impetus for starting the practice some years back, was due to the fact that my teacher lives over 3000 miles away. It is therefore tough to make weekly classes, LOL. We started the practice of videotaping in order to receive more frequent feedback from him and a few seniors in between our live visits. It took us no time flat to find far greater value than originally anticipated. In particular:


Videotaping gives practitioners the opportunity to see and analyze their own performance immediately afterwards. There is a lot that can be seen on videotape (if you know what to look for!), and the camera rarely lies (much). The immediacy is a huge bonus, because it is fresh in the practitioner's mind what was going on and what they were feeling or struggling with at the moment of execution. We have used videotape in this fashion both for sets and partner work. Beyond seeing one's own errors, the learning benefits from actually correcting one's own mistakes (i.e., in a sense, becoming one's own teacher) cannot be overstated.
We discovered the ancillary but tremendous benefit of being able to objectively see and monitor our progress over time. Whether you're working with your instructor's constant guidance and corrections or, like us without it, development can sometimes seem a slow go or even arrested. Comparing old video with newer work is a tremendous motivator, and tangible evidence that patience, putting in your time and effort, and properly following the process is indeed paying off. On the flip side, it can also serve as a reality check for the overly confident, or those who are lax in their work.
Sometimes members of the group will also invite their peers to critique their taped work. Not only is it an imminent learning moment for everyone in observing and analyzing the technical aspects, it is also way of improving skills in constructive criticism. These are small but important steps in the long slow process of learning to effectively help, coach, and perhaps eventually teach others.


Some other tidbits:


We try to tape regularly, but not too often. We aim for just a few times per year. There is so much to do, so many balances to be made in fitting everything in for practice and learning, and never enough time. Too much time spent on any one thing (even videotaping) can create imbalance elsewhere.
We very intentionally do NOT distribute or make such tapes publicly available. Any metrics person knows to be careful a) in what you measure and b) how you use the measurements obtained. We neither want people avoiding such a useful tool, or to inadvertently adopt a mind set of putting on a show for a real or imagined "audience." Taping serves strictly as a learning device. Each individual is the ultimate stakeholder and owner of their own taped material; anyone not in the video may not receive a copy without the content owner's consent. Trust is definitely an important factor for continued agreement and participation for taping.


Som of my experiences and observations, FWIW.

Regards,
- Kathy Jo

[Gangsterfist]

Good stuff KJ. We too do not distribute our videos outside our kung fu community (ie people we train with). However, we are kind of like an alumni in the sense that several schools all teach different styles but from time to time we switch it up and train with each other to see how our kung fu compares and differs.