Shansi Hsing i

[steve7mantis]

ive just recently taken up Shansi Hsing I under the lineage of Master James Mcneil. ive been training the 5 elements mostly and thinking of their martial applications and they are very good. However i was wondering, in the element wood, i notice that you only train one side over and over whereas the other elements you train both sides. why is this? also in this element we train the pheonix knuckle. any info on how i can condition this better to be stronger and prevent it from collapsing or hurting too much. i already use a wallbag filled with chicpeas. cheers for any help?

[Ray Pina]

It massages your kidney, or is it the liver ... I always confuse wood and drill first.

Anyway, do the form for healthy. Train the idea of wedging the guys arm out while you proced in on both sides for fighting. I'm sur eyou guys have 2-man sets for this. This idea is my bread-n-butter when sparring/fighting. Shield up front, step in with good structure and defelect to the sides (outside gate) or outside agaist a hood or cross and wedge in.

[count]

Wood = Liver

First Finger = Liver

Steve,
Don't worry about knuckle conditioning, since hitting with the extending knuckle would actually be an incorrect application of the fist. Worry about directing the force through the first finger, but if punching is the application your getting from beng, than it's the whole fist that connects.

I can't remember the story behind how the footwork in beng chuan became one sided. There is one. But you do train both sides and change so you train both feet forward. The footwork is key in which part of the leg that does the hitting and how you issue power. ;)

[GroungJing]

Did you say
Master James Mcneil?

Holy cow!
Another true pioneer in Internal arts, he has been around for years and years. How is it he has avoided the Internet microscope. As a group/whole we have shagged Erle Montigue, Wang Shu Jin, Chen Man Ching Yang Chen Fu, Robert Smith, John Painter etc etc etc…(the list is mighty!!!)
Yet her is a guy that’s been around since the 70’s and no one has a beef with him.

Amazing!!!



steve7mantis here is my "poor man's answer" to your question

Go to the grocery store and gather as many cardboard boxes as you can, make sure that they are big enough that you can cut out a 12 circle out of them. Tape a whole bunch together forming a dense multi layered target. Hang it on something stable. Try to penetrate through the layers with the punch. Once you’re punching deep into 10 layers or so, add duck cloth or another tuff fabric and stretch it over your target. The more you add the greater skill and force you will need. Once your punching deep into this go ahead add a layer of dry wall or green board. You get even close to punching deep into 10 or so layers of cardboard with duck cloth and a slab of dry wall on top, your Phoenix fist will be mighty.

Again moderation is the key i.e. a slow build up........

To train for accuracy mark the center of the cardboard target with a dot then hang several on a wall or tree in approximate areas corresponding to vital points on the body. With you eyes closed spin in place a couple of times, open your eyes and while maintaining proper technique and as fast as you can strike the dots on the targets. This will help condition your “see a target, strike a target without thinking” reflex. If your back is to the targets after you have spun in place, so be it. Turn and fire. Along with increasing your accuracy, the point to this exercise is to fire at a target without conceptualizing about it. See it and strike it as fast as you can! (Always with proper technique you want to avoid bad habits)

This would probably be a good exercise for all those Dim-mak guys too.

[Ray Pina]

Interesting!

So is it that you cut out a bunch (10) of Os and then tape then together? Is that your striking surface?

[steve7mantis]

cheers for the advice guys. i think ill give that conditioning a miss as i have loads to train already and that isnt a priority, but maybe later. cheers anyway. your right evolutionfist that there is 2 man sets so maybe it will become clear when i learn them, as i have just begun HsingI training. im not sure about both feet being forward in Peng chuan i will ask my Sifu about this, i simply remember training just one side in this element, but perhaps your right. thanks a lot for the advice guys.

[Ray Pina]

You're going to have a lot of fun with Hsing-I. I love it. It's no BS, it just gets right down to what you need; gives you a few classic movements that solve a lot of different problems.

[doug maverick]

you guys had something bad to say about wang shu jin, i must of missed that one cause i would've been there defending him, my sifu was one of his students when my sifu moved to taiwan, and before that he studied with wang ji wu anything bad about him i would like to know. we teach very old fashion(my teacher only has about twelve students) i took me a years before i could move on from pi chuan.

[GroungJing]

Originally posted by EvolutionFist
Interesting!

So is it that you cut out a bunch (10) of Os and then tape then together? Is that your striking surface?

That's the idea behind it.
The drywall or green board is the true test. If one can punch their phoenix fist through that and penetrate into about 10 or so layers of cardboard, forget about it! Woe to the man that gets touch with that!

My first and only true sifu taught Hubei orthodox Xingyiquan and relied heavily on the phoenix fist.

Reminds me of karateka using phone books placed on top of concrete slabs. Lets them get a feel for how far they have to have their blows penetrate. Then they start peeling the layers of the phone book. The phoenix fist conditioning exercise is kind of in reverse.

[Ray Pina]

The only serious damage I ever caused in a conflict was from a phoenix fist. My master doesn't place a lot of focus on it, and sees some weaknesses in it, but I've learned it in the past and would like to maintain/train it.
....
As far as that link goes, I have a lot of problems with it. I find this superiority complex a lot in IMA, with this guy calling other MA stupid. I'd like to cross hands with that guy Paul.

I am impressed with IMA technology, but what your teacher and your teacher's teacher can do with it is different that what you can do with it. Saying how great it is has zero value.... show me in real combat.

....

As far as Hsing-I and Mind boxing: I respect mind boxing, but remember that mind boxing is the son of Hsing-I. I view it as an effective cliff notes version and admit they can fight. They just go around to often saying the father looks like the son, instead of saying the son looks like the father.

[GroungJing]

Originally posted by doug maverick
you guys had something bad to say about wang shu jin, i must of missed that one cause i would've been there defending him, my sifu was one of his students when my sifu moved to taiwan, and before that he studied with wang ji wu anything bad about him i would like to know. we teach very old fashion(my teacher only has about twelve students) i took me a years before i could move on from pi chuan.


Facetious adj 1: comical 2: jocular 3: flippant

[QuaiJohnCain]

Originally posted by GroungJing
[B]Did you say
Master James Mcneil?

Holy cow!
Another true pioneer in Internal arts, he has been around for years and years.

How is it he has avoided the Internet microscope.
Yet her is a guy that’s been around since the 70’s and no one has a beef with him.


Do some searches. Talk to some people. JMn fabricated his lineage, charges his students thousands of dollars per year, and promises people they can master kung fu in five weeks. Run a search on usenet, there's plenty to read about him.

[GroungJing]

Originally posted by QuaiJohnCain


Do some searches. Talk to some people. JMn fabricated his lineage, charges his students thousands of dollars per year, and promises people they can master kung fu in five weeks. Run a search on usenet, there's plenty to read about him.


I’m busting a gut heeeeeeehahhhhhahh!!!

****! And I thought he was immune!
This makes my day

lol

I'm not defending anyone or supporting anyone. I was just commenting on the fact no one has shagged McNeil yet....

**** that was quick!!!

love'in it

just Love'in it

[doug maverick]

i didn't understand your post concerning my sigungs. can you go into some details thanks.

[Buddy]

Although I really like the hair piece and the pigeon english the whole hanging the weights from your balls seems excessive.

[doug maverick]

just did a searh on him and i found this: URL:http://www.sexforhealth.net/TaoDVD.html

looks like someone is getting into the porn buisness(lol) just kidding, he selling some videos on daoist sexual chi/nei kung. i started learning this a few years ago so i can say it works. but not from him so i don't know if what he's teaching is real guess i have to buy the videos to find out.